Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk.
A Zerg or Protoss could do it when 100% sure it wins them the game, but they'll never be in a position where it makes sense (except maybe herO vs Maru on Deadwing in GSL), because neither race is in a position where they so desperately want to hit a certain timing. The SCV pull is meant to end the game before storm research is done, neither Toss nor Zerg are that "afraid" of a single tech hitting the battlefield.
Yeah during WoL we did 3base timings with probes vs infestor broodlord, right. Oh wait.
The reason Terran can pull scvs and the other races cant are mules.
The reason Terran can pull scvs in tvp is that protoss gateway armies without aoe lose every time against bio. Mules are hardly a reason, if you don't win with your scv pull no mule in the world will win you the game
Correct. It's not like you can just go back to mining and expect to win after losing your entire army and 30+ SCVs. You could make the argument that MULEs help if it's like a minor SCV pull, you only pull SCVs from one base and maybe get away with some of your army, but even then, unless the Protoss lost more than just (a chunk of) his army, you're still dead in the water.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
So I'm going to go and think that is legitimate concern of yours and answer.
The teleport ability cost energy, a lot, so they can't yamato right after teleporting.
Taking that into consideration mass warp BC wouldn't be an issue because BC continues to be shit
A Zerg or Protoss could do it when 100% sure it wins them the game, but they'll never be in a position where it makes sense (except maybe herO vs Maru on Deadwing in GSL), because neither race is in a position where they so desperately want to hit a certain timing. The SCV pull is meant to end the game before storm research is done, neither Toss nor Zerg are that "afraid" of a single tech hitting the battlefield.
Yeah during WoL we did 3base timings with probes vs infestor broodlord, right. Oh wait.
The reason Terran can pull scvs and the other races cant are mules.
Zerg and protoss can both reinforce on the spot (banelings and warp-ins), which doesn't work without income. The zerg army is also faster compared to the terran army, so you will have to wait longer for the workers to catch-up. That's why dragging workers across the map for an all-in is utterly pointless for those two races. If you remove mules terran might still be the only race to pull workers, it'll just be a worse tactic.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
So I'm going to go and think that is legitimate concern of yours and answer.
The teleport ability cost energy, a lot, so they can't yamato right after teleporting.
Taking that into consideration mass warp BC wouldn't be an issue because BC continues to be shit
If the late game of a PvT gets that far: a Terran has a lot of BCs and a bunch of Ravens. Then: your Stalkers don't do much because PDD, Voidrays don't do much because of Yamato, Carriers don't beat BCs in a straight fight and Tempests are no longer anti-air. Therefore, heavy reliance on Templar tech.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
The Tempest has the Disintegration ability and Carriers can launch Interceptors at an area from a long range. Both of these can be used to force an engagement or pick off units from far away.
As a Terran, I would say that isn't an argument. He specifically asked how to beat mass-BC. Disintegration's effect can be hugely mitigated by repairing and while the carrier's new ability is nice, it does nothing against mass-BC because BCs shred the interceptors.
When the fuck do we see mass BC? I really don't think this is a pressing issue...
mass BC/Raven + a few ghosts/tanks to zone out HTs is the endgame TvP composition when going mech.
I only pay attention to the Korean scene. BCs really don't appear. Occasionally, someone will add 1 or 2 to their composition. And this is only if the Terran actually goes mech, which they don't. Bio + Vikings with early game widowmine drops is the TvP meta right now. Very rarely is it anything different.
On March 21 2015 01:25 Uvantak wrote: I just want to know if the Adepts have splash damage as gameinformer reported, that could allow Toss to take farther third bases and be more independent of high tech splash units. So yeah looking forward to more info on the unit.
Or they have yet another unit they can add to their deathball.
Seriously Protoss doesn't need more splash. :/
On March 21 2015 04:58 Doodsmack wrote: Not much new stuff for Terran. Hopefully it's not more fun to play the other two races since they're getting new stuff.
Are you kidding? Tank pickups in siege are almost the best thing to be added in LotV, the micro potential is huge.
They actually do, atm every toss splash unit is a high tech unit, meanwhile in the early to midgame toss does not have a way of dealing with mass cheap units that isn't the force field or a high committal to gateway units which will rapidly lose value as the game drags on. A splash unit that can teleport would allow Toss to be more mobile and active on the map. When massed it would still be problematic tho I agree with you that it would be a strong deathball unit, but a nerf to the collosus coupled with this new unit would be very interesting. Still we need to wait and see, the only confirmation I have gotten from Adepts having splash came from a single source, so it can't really be reliable. As I said it is wait and see.
The way it was phrased, Adept's don't do splash. But might hit multiple units. Kindda like mutas maybe ?
Yes, in the way the source says, i would expect it to be a bounce/splash like mutas only weaker (maybe 1 bounce instead of 2?) because the unit is from gateway.
Bounce instead of splash is very different, in practice they're not the same mechanic. Splash increases in strength when more units are around: a siege tank can easily hit a dozen marines if they're clumped while an adept with bounce will always hit two units at most. I think typically bounce is designed to make hit-and-run units less powerful. The huntress in Warcraft 3 had the bounce mechanic because it was a very fast early-game ranged unit, probably a necessary choice to balance the unit.
I do think that added complexity to early game units is a good choice for Blizzard if they want to make their promise to come true of making gameplay more to the point. That is to say, the early game limits you to units that are deliberately quite simple because they serve as the foundation for your army, while later units are more for support and so on. And you want to introduce new players to these simpler units, it makes for a better learning experience. But you can reverse that choice a bit and have complex units that can enable interesting scenarios with low unit counts right from the start. It's the same philosophy as raising the initial worker numbers: to start the game right at the moment where something interesting is happening - or to force interesting things to happen at the start of the game.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
The Tempest has the Disintegration ability and Carriers can launch Interceptors at an area from a long range. Both of these can be used to force an engagement or pick off units from far away.
As a Terran, I would say that isn't an argument. He specifically asked how to beat mass-BC. Disintegration's effect can be hugely mitigated by repairing and while the carrier's new ability is nice, it does nothing against mass-BC because BCs shred the interceptors.
When the fuck do we see mass BC? I really don't think this is a pressing issue...
I mean, in WoL Protoss could deal with it via the Archon Toilet, so it wasn't as prevalent (although Mvp still went for the air option at times, no?) and in HotS Protoss could deal with BCs via the tempest. Neither of these counters exist anymore in the current LotV build and BCs will probably get buffed, so who are we to say whether or not BCs will become all the rage in late game TvP?
And if that guy is concerned for his ladder points being endangered by mass BC, let him be concerned about it.
If he wants to be concerned, that's fine, but it's really not worth worrying about. TvP doesn't really go late game anyway, as Terran rarely goes mech vs Protoss. The only recent late game TvP that I've seen was a BEAUTIFUL game in Proleague round two between Hack and Trap. But no mech was involved. Just some great ghost play. Really recommend watching it. Point is, we don't see mech enough to be concerned about this and I don't think we will magically start to see it more. It's so much easier to play bio + Viking.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
The Tempest has the Disintegration ability and Carriers can launch Interceptors at an area from a long range. Both of these can be used to force an engagement or pick off units from far away.
As a Terran, I would say that isn't an argument. He specifically asked how to beat mass-BC. Disintegration's effect can be hugely mitigated by repairing and while the carrier's new ability is nice, it does nothing against mass-BC because BCs shred the interceptors.
When the fuck do we see mass BC? I really don't think this is a pressing issue...
I mean, in WoL Protoss could deal with it via the Archon Toilet, so it wasn't as prevalent (although Mvp still went for the air option at times, no?) and in HotS Protoss could deal with BCs via the tempest. Neither of these counters exist anymore in the current LotV build and BCs will probably get buffed, so who are we to say whether or not BCs will become all the rage in late game TvP?
And if that guy is concerned for his ladder points being endangered by mass BC, let him be concerned about it.
If he wants to be concerned, that's fine, but it's really not worth worrying about. TvP doesn't really go late game anyway, as Terran rarely goes mech vs Protoss. The only recent late game TvP that I've seen was a BEAUTIFUL game in Proleague round two between Hack and Trap. But no mech was involved. Just some great ghost play. Really recommend watching it. Point is, we don't see mech enough to be concerned about this and I don't think we will magically start to see it more. It's so much easier to play bio + Viking.
I would argue that 90% of good tvp games are chargelot archon games, ht ghost battles are so exciting and difficult that they really bring out the best in a player, see parting v flash from gsl
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
The Tempest has the Disintegration ability and Carriers can launch Interceptors at an area from a long range. Both of these can be used to force an engagement or pick off units from far away.
As a Terran, I would say that isn't an argument. He specifically asked how to beat mass-BC. Disintegration's effect can be hugely mitigated by repairing and while the carrier's new ability is nice, it does nothing against mass-BC because BCs shred the interceptors.
When the fuck do we see mass BC? I really don't think this is a pressing issue...
I mean, in WoL Protoss could deal with it via the Archon Toilet, so it wasn't as prevalent (although Mvp still went for the air option at times, no?) and in HotS Protoss could deal with BCs via the tempest. Neither of these counters exist anymore in the current LotV build and BCs will probably get buffed, so who are we to say whether or not BCs will become all the rage in late game TvP?
And if that guy is concerned for his ladder points being endangered by mass BC, let him be concerned about it.
If he wants to be concerned, that's fine, but it's really not worth worrying about. TvP doesn't really go late game anyway, as Terran rarely goes mech vs Protoss. The only recent late game TvP that I've seen was a BEAUTIFUL game in Proleague round two between Hack and Trap. But no mech was involved. Just some great ghost play. Really recommend watching it. Point is, we don't see mech enough to be concerned about this and I don't think we will magically start to see it more. It's so much easier to play bio + Viking.
Don't worry, I saw that game. You say that you only really pay attention to the Korean scene, so I guess that means you don't watch WCS Premier, right?
This is the reality of TvP super late game, that's what lurks beyond ghost vs HT. But of course, as you say, most games end long before they get to that stage.
On March 21 2015 19:16 JCoto wrote: It's fun to see the Terran complain about Toss having a good infantry unit when in fact Terrans have the best infantry units (by far) in the game and a combined healer/dropship.
Terran also has the shittiest late game by far, that has to be compensated somewhere. And you're basically saying stalkers, zealots, sentries, HTs and DTs aren't good units, which is BS.
That's not really true, it's just bio that cannot transition very well in Terrans strongest compositions. Or at least trying to do so is worse than just trying to win earlier.
Protoss getting some earlier low tier splash could be very good for the game and could justify getting rid of/severely nerfing/greatly redesigning crap like Photon Overcharge and Forcefield.
What would you consider Terran's strongest compositions in late game? BC/raven/viking? That's still easily worse than late game Zerg and Protoss if properly controlled. And bio, as you said, is very difficult to transition out of to begin with. And that's why Terran needs strong infantry, because getting away from it is almost impossible.
That's why, what I want for Terrans with LotV, is a unit that helps a bio player in the late game. I'd be fine if they did something to the ghost to make that work, whatever. But when you see that most Terrans opt to SCV pull rather than enter the ghost-HT wars, you know something's not going well past a certain point in the game.
I mean, the cyclone is a step to making mech more viable against Protoss, but I'm not sure that's gonna work either.
Macro production booster since the very first second = ton of problems, shitty early game balance, and discussable dessign quality. Both Terran and Zerg have their Macroboosters delayed a bit but acessible after few minutes, as they would be broken if they were avaiblable since the very first minute. Protoss shouldn't have their early game balanced around minute 1 Chronoboost and inmediate access to Warpgate (because this improves production drastically apart from negating wait times/travelling) to match the enemy macro once they acess their macroboosters.
This could be easily balanced by delaying Chronoboost access to match other the two other races a bit and empowering Gateway play with production advantage, while nerfing the Warpgate production, and we might not need that proposed LotV nerfs, also giving a natural progression to the Protoss play instead of encouraging "turtling until high tech is done".
I wholeheartly and totally agree with this part. Some solution might be adding "orbital nexus" to the game available after gateway, with abilities: chronoboost and recall (ofc with MsC being removed) with radius of FF and maybe shield recharge ?
On March 20 2015 19:12 Everlong wrote: What I really don't like is that to me it seems like they are introducing lots of units/mechanics that have very little to no counter-play.
Nydus - invulnerable. Adept - shadow is invulnerable. Disrupter - can go invulnerable. Viper - casts spell that guarantees damage Tempest - casts spell that guarantees damage
This is what gets me worried, because I believe most of the new stuff has potential to be abused to an absurd level, ultimately causing more gimmicky gameplay.
Again, I understand you can micro against those new units/mechanics to some degree, but imo, they should go the other direction. That would be adding more simple, rts-like, basic stuff that would promote macro over micro.
I'm excited about LotV anyways, can't wait for beta to start.
There's a difference between being able to outplay your opponent to avoid the damage and learning a trick to be able to always avoid / nullify an ability independent of the skill level of your opponent. If you go to the other extreme, i.e. always being able to deal damage, then clearly that's more acceptable because it at least gives the ability a reason for existing. So that's why guaranteed damage exists and is often a safe design choice, it allows you to get at least some use out of it.
Psionic storm is a good example. Some people say that there should be a second delay to the spell with some graphic to warn you, but clearly that leads to storm being useless at high levels except for zoning. This is going into a mindset more reminiscent of playing vs AI where you can learn its behavior and eventually familiarize yourself sufficiently with it to the point it ceases to be a threat.
Let's look at the mechanics you mentioned: If the disruptor was not invulnerable then it would always die before dealing serious damage, unless you tweaked the stats to the point that it would become a baneling. If the viper spell did not deal guaranteed damage you would simply spread out your air units and it would be a waste of gas spent on your viper, but now it forces the death of at least one air unit. The tempest deals guaranteed damage, but it has to risk itself to cast the ability and if it was too easy to outheal or avoid the spell then trying to cast disintegration would be a pointless suicide mission unless again they tweaked the stats to make it much higher range. And the adept would just be useless in most situations (still some uses though) if you could immediately snipe the images.
Good points, I understand. What I don't understand is why would you design new abilities or units that require guaranteed damage or invulnerability of the units in the first place. It's fine to have few of those and we already have some (like you mentioned, for example storm).
So, I'm buying your defense for such kind of spells/units, but I strongly believe SC2 does not need more of those, it's lacking in other areas, imo. But I'm open to discussion.
Well, I think that it's quite difficult to design for Starcraft 2 compared to Brood War because of the fundamentals. So in BW you had limited unit selection and no smartcast, therefore abilities would typically scale well with player skill. This doesn't exist in SC2 so you don't have any safeguards in place. The pathfinding difference plays a role too, it's well known that anything which deals area damage in this game is more difficult to balance because units stack so much. There are other reasons too, but these two are the main ones.
When everything is more fluid and responsive and easier to control, you very quickly have abilities which (for a given skill level) are either too strong or too weak and if you try to rebalance them you simply shift the problems to players of different skill levels. So if you're Blizzard you have to apply tools like guaranteed damage and temporary invulnerability to narrow down the uses of abilities and make them play out more similar to the intended design. I'm not saying it's good or bad, and maybe it's annoying design, but it's also true that Blizzard operates under certain limitations and maybe it's not a good idea to be against these sort of ability designs per se because you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
I can't say what you say is wrong. It is a different game and so different rules apply when creating new units and abilities. That makes perfect sense.
I think that by this time, Blizzard should be able to predict what and how units/abilities could be abused (abusing in my eyes = bl/infestor pre nerf, sh/static defense vs ravens, archon toilet, etc...).
Lets try to elaborate a bit more then.
For example, I understand they want Zerg to have something to deal with mass air. Why would you not try to tweak some numbers before giving potentially overpowered spell to already versatile and viable unit. I think this Parasitic Bomb is fairly close to what Fungal Growth was before it's nerf. Both spells come from spellcasters, deal AoE, are hard to micro against. The main difference is that Parasitic Bomb affects air units only and instead of chaining it, you would apply more of those at the same time, making it basically impossible to micro against (similarly to Fungal Growth's stun). It seems to me like they haven't learnt their lesson, or am I completely off here?
I don't think air vs air is that amazingly interesting in an RTS game. It ignores pathing and terrain and obscures ground armies, so it has some downsides both visually and strategically. That's why the solution to mass air can not be to have to build mass air units yourself. I think that might be part of the reason why in Brood War each race had a dedicated anti-air unit that could deal splash damage, since that lets you get a quick critical mass of anti-air against mass air compositions, limiting them. Starcraft 2 ostensibly improves on this design by giving corruptors, vikings and phoenixes some limited air-to-ground capability. Vikings and corruptors are also useful vs colossi and to deter a wide variety of early game air harassment. This means that you're likely to get a lot of these anti-air units early on, and because they don't deal splash they don't really reach critical mass and you sometimes have to get even more of them. (Hence the clouds of corruptors and vikings and medivacs you see in SC2, which I strongly dislike. ) I don't know if that's Blizzard's motivation, but if they simply want to have vipers hard counter pure air compositions, I wouldn't mind that so much. Vipers are expensive enough anyway, and getting 3+ vipers is not that trivial.
Do you think blizzard could entirely remove the colossus from the game at this point? Protoss now has some strong AOE at robo bay tech and hopefully a super solid T1 (splash?) unit in the adept. That might be a good way to stop protoss armies getting exponentially stronger as they get larger towards the late game. Besides, it feels weird having two forms of splash damage from the robo facility. Pretty sure blizzard won't do this though.
Also does anybody else wish void rays were removed from the game? I think they're the most boring unit, there's nothing interesting about them. At least mass void ray strategies will die with the new viper ability. This is coming from a protoss player btw.
On March 22 2015 17:18 StalkerFang wrote: Do you think blizzard could entirely remove the colossus from the game at this point? Protoss now has some strong AOE at robo bay tech and hopefully a super solid T1 (splash?) unit in the adept. That might be a good way to stop protoss armies getting exponentially stronger as they get larger towards the late game. Besides, it feels weird having two forms of splash damage from the robo facility. Pretty sure blizzard won't do this though.
Also does anybody else wish void rays were removed from the game? I think they're the most boring unit, there's nothing interesting about them. At least mass void ray strategies will die with the new viper ability. This is coming from a protoss player btw.
I wan´t the void ray to stay in the game so we can see stacked mass void rays die to fungals
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
So I'm going to go and think that is legitimate concern of yours and answer.
The teleport ability cost energy, a lot, so they can't yamato right after teleporting.
Taking that into consideration mass warp BC wouldn't be an issue because BC continues to be shit
If the late game of a PvT gets that far: a Terran has a lot of BCs and a bunch of Ravens. Then: your Stalkers don't do much because PDD, Voidrays don't do much because of Yamato, Carriers don't beat BCs in a straight fight and Tempests are no longer anti-air. Therefore, heavy reliance on Templar tech.
I have an idea! Why dont you simply kite with your tempest vs bcs and feedback the ppds?
Tempest Range: 15 BC Range 6 (yamato 10)
Same movement speed. Cmon now. A little micro please.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
So I'm going to go and think that is legitimate concern of yours and answer.
The teleport ability cost energy, a lot, so they can't yamato right after teleporting.
Taking that into consideration mass warp BC wouldn't be an issue because BC continues to be shit
If the late game of a PvT gets that far: a Terran has a lot of BCs and a bunch of Ravens. Then: your Stalkers don't do much because PDD, Voidrays don't do much because of Yamato, Carriers don't beat BCs in a straight fight and Tempests are no longer anti-air. Therefore, heavy reliance on Templar tech.
I have an idea! Why dont you simply kite with your tempest vs bcs and feedback the ppds?
Tempest Range: 15 BC Range 6 (yamato 10)
Same movement speed. Cmon now. A little micro please.
Dude, it's about LotV where Tempests don't shoot air. C'mon now. A little reading please.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
So I'm going to go and think that is legitimate concern of yours and answer.
The teleport ability cost energy, a lot, so they can't yamato right after teleporting.
Taking that into consideration mass warp BC wouldn't be an issue because BC continues to be shit
If the late game of a PvT gets that far: a Terran has a lot of BCs and a bunch of Ravens. Then: your Stalkers don't do much because PDD, Voidrays don't do much because of Yamato, Carriers don't beat BCs in a straight fight and Tempests are no longer anti-air. Therefore, heavy reliance on Templar tech.
I have an idea! Why dont you simply kite with your tempest vs bcs and feedback the ppds?
Tempest Range: 15 BC Range 6 (yamato 10)
Same movement speed. Cmon now. A little micro please.
Dude, it's about LotV where Tempests don't shoot air. C'mon now. A little reading please.
Oh sorry, I totally forgot that. sc2 balance in a nutshell was always: "Dont let him get there". So this rule should be applicable also in this case. anyways I dont think Battlecruisers will become the new meta even when Tempests cant hit them.
Also did I mention that I am pumped for LotV? The game cant get worse than it is already anyway
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
The Tempest has the Disintegration ability and Carriers can launch Interceptors at an area from a long range. Both of these can be used to force an engagement or pick off units from far away.
As a Terran, I would say that isn't an argument. He specifically asked how to beat mass-BC. Disintegration's effect can be hugely mitigated by repairing and while the carrier's new ability is nice, it does nothing against mass-BC because BCs shred the interceptors.
When the fuck do we see mass BC? I really don't think this is a pressing issue...
I mean, in WoL Protoss could deal with it via the Archon Toilet, so it wasn't as prevalent (although Mvp still went for the air option at times, no?) and in HotS Protoss could deal with BCs via the tempest. Neither of these counters exist anymore in the current LotV build and BCs will probably get buffed, so who are we to say whether or not BCs will become all the rage in late game TvP?
And if that guy is concerned for his ladder points being endangered by mass BC, let him be concerned about it.
If he wants to be concerned, that's fine, but it's really not worth worrying about. TvP doesn't really go late game anyway, as Terran rarely goes mech vs Protoss. The only recent late game TvP that I've seen was a BEAUTIFUL game in Proleague round two between Hack and Trap. But no mech was involved. Just some great ghost play. Really recommend watching it. Point is, we don't see mech enough to be concerned about this and I don't think we will magically start to see it more. It's so much easier to play bio + Viking.
I would argue that 90% of good tvp games are chargelot archon games, ht ghost battles are so exciting and difficult that they really bring out the best in a player, see parting v flash from gsl
Maru doesn't need ghosts to make TvP exciting. The best TvP games are when one race is the mobile, cheap units race and the other is the less mobile, more efficient and powerful race. If Blizzard cared to actually think about the economic system good TvPs would happen way more often.
On March 21 2015 23:59 Xequecal wrote: How does Protoss beat mass-Battlecruiser without the Tempest shooting up? Void Rays die in 1 yamato shot and nothing else in the Protoss arsenal is even remotely cost effective.
The Tempest has the Disintegration ability and Carriers can launch Interceptors at an area from a long range. Both of these can be used to force an engagement or pick off units from far away.
As a Terran, I would say that isn't an argument. He specifically asked how to beat mass-BC. Disintegration's effect can be hugely mitigated by repairing and while the carrier's new ability is nice, it does nothing against mass-BC because BCs shred the interceptors.
When the fuck do we see mass BC? I really don't think this is a pressing issue...
I mean, in WoL Protoss could deal with it via the Archon Toilet, so it wasn't as prevalent (although Mvp still went for the air option at times, no?) and in HotS Protoss could deal with BCs via the tempest. Neither of these counters exist anymore in the current LotV build and BCs will probably get buffed, so who are we to say whether or not BCs will become all the rage in late game TvP?
And if that guy is concerned for his ladder points being endangered by mass BC, let him be concerned about it.
If he wants to be concerned, that's fine, but it's really not worth worrying about. TvP doesn't really go late game anyway, as Terran rarely goes mech vs Protoss. The only recent late game TvP that I've seen was a BEAUTIFUL game in Proleague round two between Hack and Trap. But no mech was involved. Just some great ghost play. Really recommend watching it. Point is, we don't see mech enough to be concerned about this and I don't think we will magically start to see it more. It's so much easier to play bio + Viking.
I would argue that 90% of good tvp games are chargelot archon games, ht ghost battles are so exciting and difficult that they really bring out the best in a player, see parting v flash from gsl
I 100% agree, but unfortunately that style is pretty bad these days
EPT
