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Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Patch 12.7: Live on April. 13, 2022
Team Fight Tactics Patch 12.7 Live on April. 13, 2022
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Riot REALLY trying to make GP and Gwen broken again!
Finally, a patch with some reasonable changes. Lee nerfs seem to never matter for the champ in pro. Players just love playing him so much that his actual strength is actually irrelevant cause of the brain buff it gives junglers.
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honestly still dont understand how a massive company like riot cant bring out an acceptable client. its really not that difficult.
i just returned to the game to find out theres a thing called mythic essence. i have about 100 of them and i dont give a shit about skins so i want to trade them out for blue essence. it is a fucking joke that like with all the other shit in this clunky useless loot system, you cant set a quantity. i have to trade out the mythic essence 1 by 1 a hundred times whilst watching pointless animations to get a measly amount of something i can actually use. fuck this client seriously
I mean, look at how garbage many AAA and AA games released are, there is no incentive in the video games industry to create quality products because gamers will buy/spend anyway. I know what you mean, I have like 200 champion shards, and that's after I disenchanted a bunch of them years ago. If I wanted to clean the loot screen up, I would probably need an hour of pointless clicking.
Patch notes:
- GP buffs lol, this champ does not need damage, he needs his mechanics readjusted. He's almost impossible to balance because his barrels are either nukes that one shot entire teams, or tickle you. And Riot has shoehorned his entire champ concept around it.
- Gwen is the same story, Riot has created a champ that is entirely about numbers because on paper he kit is insanely OP. So to balance her they tweak some values and pray that the player base doesn't pick her up.
- Ryze is turning more and more into an AP champion, might as well as remove his mana interaction and be done with it.
- Wtf those Wukong buffs.
- Haha look at those Zeri nerfs, that champ is just disgusting. But it's misleading because from looks of it they're buffing her late game in return for a weaker early.
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I disagree or are confused about pretty much all the changes. The most notable:
The Kalista text is wrong, here's the fixed version "Kalista hasn't seen pro play in a while so here is some buffs, but once she is played in pro we immediately are nerfing her again".
They are doing the same with on-hit Neeko.
Wukong buffs look absolutely bonkers and cheaper Oranges on GP is uuuurgh.
Winter's Embrace is popular because it is the only mana item for tanks you can reliable buy early without feeling bad. Just reintroduce Catalyst and everyone is happy.
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I had a lot of wtf moments while reading the changes explanations, but this one was the winner for me: Yone is also getting more access to his ult, but with a focus on late game which is when it's usually harder for him to close gaps
yone cant gap close good enough, like this goes beyond the funny territory and lands into the left hand has no idea what the right does or that there is even a right
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Sometimes I don't even know how Yone gapcloses, he just does.
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one of these days they will nerf riven
trust
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On April 26 2022 16:29 Fildun wrote:
one of these days they will nerf riven
trust
I remember that one Rioter posting how on average a Riven player would have a 50% winrate, but this would rise to almost 65% if they played her for 50+ games, even going into GM / Challenger. She is probably the ultimate soloQ champ that has been largely ignored in competitive for years (and there are even some pros who OTP'd her).
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she was kind of fine end of last season but this season idk man
when you look at toplaners in challenger half of them are s11 masters riven onetricks
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To be honest I think she's being carried entirely by the rediculous Death's Dance+Maw combo and additional their synergy with her ultimate being a AD steroid too.
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DARKNESSS?
Any thoughts on new Swain? I've tried him as a sololaner every mythic AP feels horrible, I haven't tried it but I'm starting to think Moonstone be the best.
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From what I've seen, his healing seems to be overall stronger, he finally fits the theme of drain tank again.
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On April 28 2022 17:42 DarkCore wrote:
From what I've seen, his healing seems to be overall stronger, he finally fits the theme of drain tank again.
I've played him a bit and it feels like he does so little damage now, which combined with how gankable he is makes laning really really rough. The theoretical perma ult is super nice and really brings back the feel of his old ultimate.
For me the best results so far has been a Rylai's first and Stoneplate second. You need to the stickiness and ability to survive initial burst, Stoneplate has felt like a superior version of Hourglass. He is in the wonky spot where no mythic really seem strong, Moonstone 3rd or 4th feel as the best since you want to teamfight constantly and he has huge synergy with the item.
Some match ups feel completely unplayable so ban Irelia and dodge Riven unless you want to be greyscreened.
Oh and even with the ARAM nerfs he's completely batshit busted in the gamemode.
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as a Swain enjoyer from time to time (I still mourn about his first version xD) I feel like this iteration is viable bot with a high damage supports (brand, velkoz, zyra etc.) and could be viable mid, again with more hyper damage champions in the team (vayne top, karthus jungle, brand support etc.). In other words he is viable on the carry positions but not being the carry
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On May 01 2022 16:18 M2 wrote:
as a Swain enjoyer from time to time (I still mourn about his first version xD) I feel like this iteration is viable bot with a high damage supports (brand, velkoz, zyra etc.) and could be viable mid, again with more hyper damage champions in the team (vayne top, karthus jungle, brand support etc.). In other words he is viable on the carry positions but not being the carry
Cane Swain best Swain.
I dont know about duolane, he wants level 11 asap it makes the base values on ultimate literally more than twice as strong. Theoretical I think he would be at his best if he is duo until level 6 where he can safely sololane then switch with one of the sololaners. Maybe some wonky feasting Senna shenanigans?
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new olaf if hilariously bad, decided to try him top, he loses to everything early and gets outscaled later xD. Maybe he is fine vs tanks, but yeah there is nothing interesting or working well in his rework imo
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This new post game menu should be considered a crime against humanity. Its just so much nonsense
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of all the client related things they could have changed, they changed this. lol
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On May 11 2022 23:35 M2 wrote:
new olaf if hilariously bad, decided to try him top, he loses to everything early and gets outscaled later xD. Maybe he is fine vs tanks, but yeah there is nothing interesting or working well in his rework imo
Everything I've seen on streams seems to confirm this, champ sprints it down every part of the game, he has zero redeeming features.
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On May 12 2022 08:51 chipmonklord17 wrote:
This new post game menu should be considered a crime against humanity. Its just so much nonsense
I literally cannot comprehend what I am seeing there? Can we still see graphs? I cant find graphs menu
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On May 12 2022 16:26 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2022 23:35 M2 wrote:
new olaf if hilariously bad, decided to try him top, he loses to everything early and gets outscaled later xD. Maybe he is fine vs tanks, but yeah there is nothing interesting or working well in his rework imo Everything I've seen on streams seems to confirm this, champ sprints it down every part of the game, he has zero redeeming features.
Really? Everyone on /olafmains looks like they are loving it. He looks like he (like Swain) is going to benefit immensely from the sustainability patch and his numbers are with that in mind.
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am i the only one who dislikes this durability patch? i think i definitely liked it when there was more damage than now where everyone is tankier
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relevant flair xD, the patch is a mess, but I personally prefer this direction, I was not a big fan of zed or talon one shotting sejuani with splash damage while diving for the adc, however, the main point is that riot strategy is to make changes and big changes for the sake of the changes every now and then and this patch is mostly due to that imo
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well i lost 3 games yesterday when i was like like 15kills+ and it felt like the enemies just wouldnt die. i mean i understand people complaining about getting one shotted by some 1/1/1 character, but if im 6 slotted i expect to be able to kill people. even with ldr/void it seems crazy difficult to kill.
lol used to have a problem where it was increasingly harder to solo carry because teammates feeding would be too much of a hindrance to your 1v9. now i feel like its harder to solo carry because you literally dont have the damage to 1v5 even if youre stacked
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Think the tankiness is a bit overtuned, but this mostly comes down to items. Tank items were actually pretty strong before, you just didn't feel it because assassins could chunk them with their aoe when diving a squishy. Either they need to tune the health numbers a bit, or add a bit more ArPen/MPen to the anti tank items.
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yeah i think reverting the nerfs to the pen items should be a good start. i think the general idea behind the patch was that they didnt want to nerf damage, just buff survivability, but that isnt consistent with nerfs to ldr/void. its especially relevant because armor/mr gain per level all went up as well
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the thing is that the fed sustain damage dealers deal with the fed tanks fairly easy imo
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i had a veigar game where i had over 1.2k ap with void and i couldnt kill anyone. game was fairly long and both teams got pretty stacked, eventually lost to a fed kat that i couldnt deal with. thing is i couldnt deal with any of the other opponents either. ulting ppl at like 40%hp and they wont die
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On May 30 2022 03:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i had a veigar game where i had over 1.2k ap with void and i couldnt kill anyone. game was fairly long and both teams got pretty stacked, eventually lost to a fed kat that i couldnt deal with. thing is i couldnt deal with any of the other opponents either. ulting ppl at like 40%hp and they wont die
its weird yeah, I just had a game as swain bot with nami vs lux and mf and if they miss an ability or two, nami was able to outsustain their damage. The weirdest parts were when I was surviving lux full combo + ult + MF's E+R however without eating the full bullet time. I was like What? last patch half of this would have overkilled me
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looking around and it seems that most high elo players agree that the patch feels shit.
low elo players complained about getting popped and it seems the patch in its current iteration has been designed specifically to cater to those complaints, however the real issue is that the low elo players probably just suck and dont know how to stay alive/peel etc.
the evidence is that the memes about adcs getting deleted and being unplayable is a low elo problem. in high elo adcs were actually one of the strongest roles and games were decided usually by the botside, because adcs know how to position and teammates actually peel.
imo if you make a mistake you should be punished for it with death. if youre a 5/0/0 mage/adc and you dont have any armor/mr, you should still die to a 0/3/0 assassin if you give them a chance to throw their whole combo on you. right now if you play an assassin you have to play perfectly, because if you go behind then you literally cannot punish anyone. most champs have like almost 200 extra hp, and 5-10 armor/mr by lvl 9 just through the extra base stat gains. thats 1-2 extra skills or 3-4 autos.
i think the best thing would be to half the 12.10 changes and find some middle ground. not being able to kill people that deserve to die for their poor positioning or itemisation just feels so stupid.
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if youre a 5/0/0 mage/adc and you dont have any armor/mr, you should still die to a 0/3/0 assassin if you give them a chance to throw their whole combo on you. right now if you play an assassin you have to play perfectly, because if you go behind then you literally cannot punish anyone.
Imo assassins can still do this, except that the fed ADC likely has a support nearby that will save them. And yeah, I think it's fair if you're a super behind assassin you will struggle to make picks, this is what it was like in earlier seasons, feast or famine. A fed assassin could murder an ADC missing half their abilities pre-patch, that is where the frustration came from. From a utility perspective, assassins are just as one dimensional as ADC, they have one purpose and they sacrifice everything to do it. Once they fall behind it's hard to comeback.
Riot only needs to do a small change to overall tankiness, and imo they should go after items and masteries first.
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On May 30 2022 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
looking around and it seems that most high elo players agree that the patch feels shit.
low elo players complained about getting popped and it seems the patch in its current iteration has been designed specifically to cater to those complaints, however the real issue is that the low elo players probably just suck and dont know how to stay alive/peel etc.
the evidence is that the memes about adcs getting deleted and being unplayable is a low elo problem. in high elo adcs were actually one of the strongest roles and games were decided usually by the botside, because adcs know how to position and teammates actually peel.
imo if you make a mistake you should be punished for it with death. if youre a 5/0/0 mage/adc and you dont have any armor/mr, you should still die to a 0/3/0 assassin if you give them a chance to throw their whole combo on you. right now if you play an assassin you have to play perfectly, because if you go behind then you literally cannot punish anyone. most champs have like almost 200 extra hp, and 5-10 armor/mr by lvl 9 just through the extra base stat gains. thats 1-2 extra skills or 3-4 autos.
i think the best thing would be to half the 12.10 changes and find some middle ground. not being able to kill people that deserve to die for their poor positioning or itemisation just feels so stupid.
didn't think it was possible to be wrong multiple times in every single sentence you wrote but congrats you did it
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On May 30 2022 03:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i had a veigar game where i had over 1.2k ap with void and i couldnt kill anyone. game was fairly long and both teams got pretty stacked, eventually lost to a fed kat that i couldnt deal with. thing is i couldnt deal with any of the other opponents either. ulting ppl at like 40%hp and they wont die
Maybe stop ulting the tank then? There is no way an adc/mage survives veigar ult at 40% hp with 1.2k ap
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On May 30 2022 19:19 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2022 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
looking around and it seems that most high elo players agree that the patch feels shit.
low elo players complained about getting popped and it seems the patch in its current iteration has been designed specifically to cater to those complaints, however the real issue is that the low elo players probably just suck and dont know how to stay alive/peel etc.
the evidence is that the memes about adcs getting deleted and being unplayable is a low elo problem. in high elo adcs were actually one of the strongest roles and games were decided usually by the botside, because adcs know how to position and teammates actually peel.
imo if you make a mistake you should be punished for it with death. if youre a 5/0/0 mage/adc and you dont have any armor/mr, you should still die to a 0/3/0 assassin if you give them a chance to throw their whole combo on you. right now if you play an assassin you have to play perfectly, because if you go behind then you literally cannot punish anyone. most champs have like almost 200 extra hp, and 5-10 armor/mr by lvl 9 just through the extra base stat gains. thats 1-2 extra skills or 3-4 autos.
i think the best thing would be to half the 12.10 changes and find some middle ground. not being able to kill people that deserve to die for their poor positioning or itemisation just feels so stupid. didn't think it was possible to be wrong multiple times in every single sentence you wrote but congrats you did it
feel free to point out where im wrong
On May 30 2022 21:01 loSleb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2022 03:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i had a veigar game where i had over 1.2k ap with void and i couldnt kill anyone. game was fairly long and both teams got pretty stacked, eventually lost to a fed kat that i couldnt deal with. thing is i couldnt deal with any of the other opponents either. ulting ppl at like 40%hp and they wont die Maybe stop ulting the tank then? There is no way an adc/mage survives veigar ult at 40% hp with 1.2k ap
i shouldnt have to. pre patch with 1.2k ap as veigar your ult should kill pretty much anything at 40%, with the exception of tanks stacked on mr. my ult couldnt take out a support maokai
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On May 30 2022 21:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2022 19:19 Fildun wrote:On May 30 2022 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
looking around and it seems that most high elo players agree that the patch feels shit.
low elo players complained about getting popped and it seems the patch in its current iteration has been designed specifically to cater to those complaints, however the real issue is that the low elo players probably just suck and dont know how to stay alive/peel etc.
the evidence is that the memes about adcs getting deleted and being unplayable is a low elo problem. in high elo adcs were actually one of the strongest roles and games were decided usually by the botside, because adcs know how to position and teammates actually peel.
imo if you make a mistake you should be punished for it with death. if youre a 5/0/0 mage/adc and you dont have any armor/mr, you should still die to a 0/3/0 assassin if you give them a chance to throw their whole combo on you. right now if you play an assassin you have to play perfectly, because if you go behind then you literally cannot punish anyone. most champs have like almost 200 extra hp, and 5-10 armor/mr by lvl 9 just through the extra base stat gains. thats 1-2 extra skills or 3-4 autos.
i think the best thing would be to half the 12.10 changes and find some middle ground. not being able to kill people that deserve to die for their poor positioning or itemisation just feels so stupid. didn't think it was possible to be wrong multiple times in every single sentence you wrote but congrats you did it feel free to point out where im wrong
On May 30 2022 14:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
1. looking around and it seems that most high elo players agree that the patch feels shit.
2. low elo players complained about getting popped and it seems the patch in its current iteration has been designed specifically to cater to those complaints, however the real issue is that the low elo players probably just suck and dont know how to stay alive/peel etc.
3. the evidence is that the memes about adcs getting deleted and being unplayable is a low elo problem. in high elo adcs were actually one of the strongest roles and games were decided usually by the botside, because adcs know how to position and teammates actually peel.
4. imo if you make a mistake you should be punished for it with death. if youre a 5/0/0 mage/adc and you dont have any armor/mr, you should still die to a 0/3/0 assassin if you give them a chance to throw their whole combo on you.
5. right now if you play an assassin you have to play perfectly, because if you go behind then you literally cannot punish anyone. most champs have like almost 200 extra hp, and 5-10 armor/mr by lvl 9 just through the extra base stat gains. thats 1-2 extra skills or 3-4 autos.
6. i think the best thing would be to half the 12.10 changes and find some middle ground. not being able to kill people that deserve to die for their poor positioning or itemisation just feels so stupid.
1. What I've seen from streams/twitter/reddit and various regional league discord servers is that there are a few whiners who complain every patch but most people like the direction of the patch. Sure, some think it went a bit too far which is imo an entirely reasonable argument, even though I do not agree with it, but that's mostly asking to revert one change such as tower damage.
I also see a lot more high elo people on my friendslist playing compared to last patch.
2. Sure, low elo sucks but really not in the way you're describing. Low elo players can't play Qiyana, Zed, Fizz, etc. Nobody dies when they should die because nobody deals the damage they should do. This makes assassins worse because they don't have sustained damage whereas if you miss a couple Qs on Ezreal you can still just continue to throw Qs if you're low elo, if you miss Fizz ulti you have to wait over a minute.
Whenever I play low elo nothing ever happens and nobody ever dies, everybody is just happy to have no hands or brains and to do their own thing.
3. Look at any high elo player making a list of impact roles in the game from the last year. Top and adc are always at the bottom. Jungle/support/mid are the three most impactful roles in soloq, only in pro play adcs become somewhat relevant and even then it's tough.
Also I really don't understand what you mean by 'The memes are a low elo problem'. Does this mean only low elo players create memes? How do you even know the elo of a meme maker?
4. Sure, if an assassin presses all their buttons and the mid/adc presses no buttons that mid/adc should probably die. However, this isn't relevant to most gameplay situations and every time someone says that they couldn't oneshot someone while the other person did nothing I go into the replay and see something very different happen.
5. You have to play well to do well? Gee, what a surprise. Sure, the kill zones have changed but so did your own stats. Champs like Qiyana/Talon poke people down in lane as well and they now have more space to do that before going for the kill. General trading patterns haven't changed. Plus, you were overkilling in a lot of situations before, so it's definitely not always 2 spells or 4 autos extra you have to do now.
6. If people don't die with poor positioning you either misplayed or their positioning isn't poor. Yes, this patch changes ranges of various champs, that's usually what happens with big patches. Sure, the enemies are a bit tankier which gives them a bit more room to play, but you also get a bit more room to flank because you don't get instantly blown up when found out. The patch hasn't just changed things for the enemies, it also changed things for you.
Edit: Also, I'm curious, what is your IGN/server? I could maybe take a look at the specific games.
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So this is not the right patch (we're on 12.11 now), but here are my observations so far:
- New champ is overtuned right now. Biggest proof is the growing popularity of the quack Frostfire Botrk build, I'm also not a big fan of a champ having access to 3.5 AS without going Lethal Tempo.
- I'm a fan of everything being tankier, but I don't support the nerf to GW. If someone like Vlad or Swain pulls ahead, you basically cannot itemize against them, the GW items don't give great stats before and now their main purpose has been nerfed.
- Olaf is kekw champ, make of that what you will
- Riot still doesn't know what to do with Senna and Tahm: they buff ADC Senna, give Tahm more damage and just let us deal with the aftermath.
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On June 17 2022 03:39 DarkCore wrote:
So this is not the right patch (we're on 12.11 now), but here are my observations so far:
- New champ is overtuned right now. Biggest proof is the growing popularity of the quack Frostfire Botrk build, I'm also not a big fan of a champ having access to 3.5 AS without going Lethal Tempo.
- I'm a fan of everything being tankier, but I don't support the nerf to GW. If someone like Vlad or Swain pulls ahead, you basically cannot itemize against them, the GW items don't give great stats before and now their main purpose has been nerfed.
- Olaf is kekw champ, make of that what you will
- Riot still doesn't know what to do with Senna and Tahm: they buff ADC Senna, give Tahm more damage and just let us deal with the aftermath.
I think GW(healing in general) needs another pass. Combat healing specifically is asymptotic, it's hard to play in a region where it's just an increase in time to kill, rather than a binary killable and invincible.
I personally think it should be stackable, but shorter duration from different sources(champs), with stacks falling off one by one if they haven't been reapplied by the source(3s?). If you're getting targeted by 3 people who all built a cost-inefficient item to reduce healing, the target shouldn't be able to live just by healing. Zhonya's or other things (vlad pool) can drop stacks. GW can retain the current power level in this case.
Gives a team that is behind a way to focus down a target, but they have to invest in it.
Should also separate it out in self-healing, and then ally healing so they can have different percentages for each, or have ally spell healing reduce a stack before applying the heal.
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I'm kind of fine with Tahm after they nerfed his grey health in 12.2, at least you can kill him more easily now. Senna is in a weird spot but I'll give this patch some time to see how that shakes out.
Olaf is very different from pre rework, he seems to scale way better than anyone was used to which will take some adapting but at the end of the day he's still a short range melee champ.
New champ seems to do nothing but then he randomly kills everyone I don't really get it. Maybe they need to nerf the dash cd a bit? Feel like there's too much mobility for how strong the right click is.
Another thing I discovered recently is that smurfq also exists in normals, that was even less of a fun experience than master+ mmr smurfq
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T1 vs NS game 2 is quite possibly one of the most insane games I've ever seen. It wasn't good, but it was simply bizarre how things turned out..
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GW should not be strong imo, when its strong riot is forced to make healing on the healing champions strong as well (to compensate them when there is GW in the game) which leads to games where GW is a must if there is a healing champ in the game. However if GW is not that strong, then they can (hopefully) balance the healing champs to be killable even without GW (at least when they are behind) and GW should be good vs them, but also optional. Not sure I can explain it
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On June 18 2022 04:50 M2 wrote:
GW should not be strong imo, when its strong riot is forced to make healing on the healing champions strong as well (to compensate them when there is GW in the game) which leads to games where GW is a must if there is a healing champ in the game. However if GW is not that strong, then they can (hopefully) balance the healing champs to be killable even without GW (at least when they are behind) and GW should be good vs them, but also optional. Not sure I can explain it
Healing is unequally distributed amongst champions. Someone like Gragas has a nice little heal that lets him live through longer teamfights, and even nerfed GW affects him. Swain has a million healing a second and it feels like 50% heal reduction has no impact on him.
Riot nerfed access to heals in masteries and items (ADC got the brunt of it), but it's easy to forget that people demanded stronger GW for years because some champs have lategame sustain that once reached makes them impossible to deal with.
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True I agree, but my point stays I think. If we have strong GW, this will always force heal buffs and this will always lead to GW being mandatory in every game where there is even a little healing. The GW should be moderate or even weak and then trying to balance around this concept imo
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Healing is out of whack any time GW items don't have the same priority of QSS items, imo.
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I miss my Garen icon 
Also how far up the Benelux amateur scene do I have to go before I can get a progamer tag, is earning 5 euros enough now that we're back on a starcraft site?
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are we going to get the zaun dragon back? I liked it, not the effects, the terrain or the soul, but the drake itself was kind of cute. So maybe they can rework the effects and bring it back?
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I don't think so. Don't think they want to try and balance it outside of a mid-season or off-season patch.
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On June 24 2022 08:43 Gahlo wrote:
I don't think so. Don't think they want to try and balance it outside of a mid-season or off-season patch.
Your name looks familiar but I havent been around here in a long time lol
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I took a couple years off from the game and the last few years I've just been playing a casual ARAM anymore. Been years since I cared about SR so I didn't really have anything to add in patch threads. Decided to poke my head into this one because, well, it's all that's left.
Been mostly using LL to keep up with politics threads.
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EPT
