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evilfatsh1t
Australia8614 Posts
use a designated jungler out of a handful of champs if you want or just to a 2nd support and let the jungle just be extra farm and xp for laners. in the pro scene thats practically what the jg is after the mid game anyway. no need to hassle with balancing the jg role cause riot sucks at is anyway and it probably makes the game easier to play for noobs who like icanada said, dont have the knowledge to play a full time jg role | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4103 Posts
On February 20 2020 22:29 evilfatsh1t wrote: they should just dumpster the entire jungle "role" and go dota style. use a designated jungler out of a handful of champs if you want or just to a 2nd support and let the jungle just be extra farm and xp for laners. in the pro scene thats practically what the jg is after the mid game anyway. no need to hassle with balancing the jg role cause riot sucks at is anyway and it probably makes the game easier to play for noobs who like icanada said, dont have the knowledge to play a full time jg role Yeah I personally dislike and despise the jungle role, its like something from another game that is forcefully integrated in LoL and I'll be happy if they remove it, however, how do you think they are going to fix the issue with top becoming duo support/adc as well which will practically remove some champion classes for good ? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I do think before 10.3 honestly, top support would have been better than a jungler in the right comp. Experience was about the same, gold difference was very minor if not in favor of the support item. Only thing is smite is huge and not having the third / fourth member to be at Baron would majorly suck. That being said, if you had a Juggernaut top with Yuumi or Ivern support, or even Soraka / Sona support with scaling jungler who played funnel style around top (say a Yi, Graves, Rengar, Volibear, Mundo, Kayn, Ekko etc) without a jungle item and then a botlane with an engage support I think it'd be viable even right now with how good support items are. Imagine a funnel style Rango with a support Ivern 2v1 top, lol. That being said, it would be kind of like picking non-adcs as the bot laner (Yasuo, Vlad, Ziggs, Heimer, Kayle, Cass, etc) before it was popularized in pro and streams. People would assume you were trolling and hard int. Double Bruiser bot lanes always hard wrecked ADC+support lanes bottom unless the ADC support lane could not interested, and honestly until like the top 1% of play they would always int. I couldn't tell you how many times I played 4v5s out in ranked prior to role select for picking a botlane like Pantheon+Leona into some shit like Zyra Ashe and nearly hard carried a game while pooping all over my lane, but my top laner thought I was trolling and left the game before minions spawned. But if you queue bottom today, people are all for that, no one would say a thing. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8614 Posts
On February 20 2020 23:37 M2 wrote: Yeah I personally dislike and despise the jungle role, its like something from another game that is forcefully integrated in LoL and I'll be happy if they remove it, however, how do you think they are going to fix the issue with top becoming duo support/adc as well which will practically remove some champion classes for good ? the thing is i dont think top would become another adc/support lane. aside from obvious compositional issues a double adc draft would have, adc/sup lanes arent actually THAT strong. there are plenty of duo comps that include bruisers or tanks that could win the lane. you dont want to have a 2 adc comp but have one of your adcs dumpstered. also i dont think a removal of jungle automatically means the jungler becomes a top support. depending on how the jungle creeps stats are adjusted, we could see dual roaming supports, we could see a top baby sitting support, a permanent jungler even despite the changes and overall a complete overhaul of how teams distribute farm amongst the team. the one thing that would be for certain is that lane matchups and compositions would see more variety. some drafts in pro games might be boring because an execution mistake in a draft could lead to even bigger 1 sided losses but id rather that than have 5 games in a row of the same sequence of drafts because the op champs in every role are set and you cant deviate from that | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Don't think duo top will happen either, my guess is that we'd see roaming supports. Bruisers/tanks scale with levels, that is why they want to be a level or more above the ADC, duo bot often beats a bruiser+jungler if they're the same level. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Also, Amumu is a positive winrate champion right now in Diamond + games. He is also rocking a 56% winrate in Iron with 27% pickrate. Lol. Only 55.5% with a 8.4% pickrate in bronze though, got to pump those numbers. Never thought I'd see him be a pickable champion at that level. Edit: they hotpatching some stuff. Nerfing Sona again, buffing Raja, nerfing immolate. https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkYetter/status/1230653813905711104 | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On February 20 2020 22:29 evilfatsh1t wrote: they should just dumpster the entire jungle "role" and go dota style. use a designated jungler out of a handful of champs if you want or just to a 2nd support and let the jungle just be extra farm and xp for laners. in the pro scene thats practically what the jg is after the mid game anyway. no need to hassle with balancing the jg role cause riot sucks at is anyway and it probably makes the game easier to play for noobs who like icanada said, dont have the knowledge to play a full time jg role I think it's too late to scrap the jungle role within League's design space. We already have had patches without junglers - the funnel meta and it was absolutely horrible. On February 21 2020 09:37 iCanada wrote: https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkYetter/status/1230653813905711104 The Rengar/Hydra bug linked later in the tweet is hilarious. :D | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 21 2020 14:18 Jek wrote: I think it's too late to scrap the jungle role within League's design space. We already have had patches without junglers - the funnel meta and it was absolutely horrible. The Rengar/Hydra bug linked later in the tweet is hilarious. :D I... What?! Jesus. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
LoL meta is entirely artificial and depends on the whims of Riot. And the game isn't designed to allow multiple general game plans, there's always one or two very strong comps. That's why we get patches with significant buffs/nerfs/changes every few months, otherwise people would figure out the best drafts and they'd be rotated around forever. Look at LCK right now, everyone's picking Aatrox/Orrn top, and Aphelios/MF bot, with a sprinkle of Morde/Xayah/Ezreal, and Akali is almost always banned despite being nerfed so hard. And that matters here because when funnel was viable, it was also the only viable jungle strat, at least at the highest level of play. Even if you were ahead, the enemy jungle Karthus/Xayah would outlevel your mid and jungle, and do more damage than both combined. Conventional jungling became less and less viable as people became more comfortable with funneling. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I've seen three different Darius Jungle players come out of the Jungle at level 3 and a half to contest crab at half HP, and it's kind of mind blowing to me. I'm the same Elo as all these brain dead monkeys that couldn't spend even 5 minutes in practice tool trying out a clear. Mind blowing. Then you look at the u.gg's, the op.gg's platinum plus statistics and you see he has a higher winrate taking 3 health pots level 1 instead of refillable pot. The only Champions I can find where pots have a higher winrate than refillable are Qiyana and Nidalee at gold or lower. Suddenly it becomes clear the vast majority of these players don't have anything remotely close to an optimized clear that lets the rundown sustain bully Darius is in lane be a threat to rundown and bully an opposing jungler that is further from a tower then a top laner ever will be. Level 3 should be his time to shine... No jungler can win that 1v1 unless they have a major vision advantage and are able to start the fight for free or there is uneven lane be priority. Then you see that 45% of these players are taking Predator which isn't even online for these scuttle fights as well. So you have a low health Darius without a combat keystone fighting another jungler with Conqueror, PtA, DH, Electrocute, or Aftershock... Lol. I'm not even sure what the thought behind predator is, that if he zooms into lanes suddenly he'll have good ganks? Nah, Darius is only ever going to get the kind of free kill ganks that you'd expect a Shyvana or a Yi to land. With poor clear optimization and suboptimal runes trying to fix an unfixable weakness suddenly you've turned what should be the locks greatest strength into its greatest weakness. No way low health Darius without a combat keystone can contest a scuttle vs Conqueror Olaf or even something weak early game Aftershock Zac / Amumu. Yet the whole point of the pick is that no jungler without mobility should even be able to walk into that river without inting. You even have 15% of players building machete on Darius. Lol. His buff gromp buff clear is quite good if you Q raptors on the way through. He should have full HP, a pot, and a smite charge even starting without a leash because he's literally the best talisman heal abuser in the game. With his passive ticking for 5s it means of you proc passive on a monster you're getting 10s of 6 HP/s heal from talisman. On Raptors, that's 360 HP. Plus if you're actually killing a camp you get 60 damage burn from Talisman and 78 damage from passive... So you can walk away from a camp as long as it's below 200HP and you're not being contested. You should be able to walk out of the jungle level 3 and looking to gank at 230 at full HP, two potions up, and a smite charge. If you didn't get a pull maybe 245 and 80% HP with two pots left. It's not the fastest, Nidalee / Olaf / Karthus etc all do it faster by atleast 15 seconds. But it is fast and healthy enough that if you predicted the enemy clear you can create a situation where you're creating pressure and priority on the contested side and winning scuttle, then you can reset or pass through gank mid and take the other scuttle. Instead we have the equivalent of people picking Nidalee and not being able to create an early game pressure head because they can't mechanically do the first clear. Or people picking Qiyana jungle and not being able to get the free firstblood mid because they can't do the first clear. Unlucky. Then you have 80% of jungle Darius players are opting into Cinderhulk despite Darius having some of the highest AD ratios in the game after the pantheon rework. (0.3 AD x 5 on passive, 1.0 to 1.4 on Q based on level, 0.5 to 0.7 on W based on skill level, 0.75 to 1.5 AD on ult pending number of passive stacks... Or up to 5.1 damage per bonus AD... for reference Zed with a perfect ultimate runs 6.4 ability damage per AD, and Darius has true damage and free 40% armor pen). How you have those ratios and don't buy 60 AD and 10% CDR for 1500 gold, I don't know. Then his most common second item from the Jungle at the moment is Black Cleaver (which does nothing for him offensively as his only offensive item while behind, provides little utility as shred is multiplicative with pen, and is suboptimal defensively, and then his second most common second item is Trinity force, that people are buying on a shoestring jungle budget from an average gold differential at 15 minutes of -350, and a below average gold per minute of 325 through the first 20 minutes of the game. That means dudes be completing Trinity Force, when amounting 3600 gold for boots / Jungle item / pinks, at around the 27 minute mark on average. Rofl. That's mind boggling to me. Just the entire thing. Looking at these stats makes me feel like I'm a raid leader again. And it hurts my soul. Just stop standing in the fire. -_- | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Case in point, you shouldn't be surprised that people don't know how to itemize Darius. That would require sitting down and actually thinking about the game. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
When I hear people call Diamond players bad I always am reminded of this moment | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Also.... https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/AT1WbAOj-quick-gameplay-thoughts-february-21 Introducing a new early game homeguards when you respawn after a death Wat. On February 22 2020 06:45 Slusher wrote: It’s a bit off topic but iCanada’s post reminds me of a time raiding Icecrown. I myself was not the raid leader but I was in charge of assignments and callouts for dps in vent. If you don’t recall the precious fight on heroic, Professor putricide would throw flasks of poison on the raid at intervals that could be completely negated by stacking dps and rotating locations. It really wasn’t a difficult fight for that reason but to help learn it I would literally call out move now on vent despite the fact that dbm existed and did the same thing. Then one week at least a month after ICC was on farm I had to fly to New York in the morning so I was playing on my laptop from my parents house so they could drop me off the next day. For this reason I didn’t have my mic turned on, and I proceeded to watch a guild that finished Icecrown top 150 NA wipe to this boss 3 times before I reluctantly turned on my built in mic to do the call outs. When I hear people call Diamond players bad I always am reminded of this moment Yeah... I don't even think I was a good WoW player, but I guess when you look at my achievements I'm probably in the top few percentile and always have played with / at that level... but some players inability to just complete basic mechanics tilted the shit out of me. Usually wasn't too bad, I've always played a rogue so I historically was able to pick up a lot of slack mechanics wise. I'll never forget trying to do Heroic Iskar day 1 of HFC prior to the "Iskar assist" add ons. And after Iskar assist for that matter. Ugh. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2020/02/221-pbe-update-skin-bios-chroma-tweaks.html?m=1 Wtf is that deaths dance change... One stop shop perfect item, I guess. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35118 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
It's already one of the most gold efficient items in the game and you're trading 700 gold worth of AD for 600 gold in senor, and 540 gold worth of MR? That's 4480 gold in stats for 3500 gold and that's not even considering the burst reduction passive. A solid 128% gold efficient on its own, putting it in the Crucible / Censor / Redemption / Ornn / Jungle tier of gold efficiency. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35118 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
The buff to BotRK is massive, wouldn't be surprised if we suddenly saw Zed build it again. That buff combined with DD and Hydra buffs looks like Riot wants sustain bruisers to be the meta again. Like nobody is going to be able to even stand in a lane with Fiora/Aatrox because they can fully heal off a wave and have so much LS they can outheal the turret damage while being fairly tanky. That could be solved by making the abilities unique, or allowing only one item to be built (like Tear upgrades). | ||
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