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On February 12 2020 11:43 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 07:07 iCanada wrote:
I find it hilarious that Riots response to no one wanting to play jungle was to just take like ten random but popular Champions and buff their jungle clear. Lol. TBH, I think they should do this more. Every champion should be able to jungle effectively, if not competitively.
Thats like S2 jungle then. And no, while I have done it, some champs like Anivia are not meant to jungle.
You'd basically either have to put a ton of damage onto the jungle item, or else weaken the camps to the point where past 5 minutes the S tier junglers kill camps in a couple seconds.
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On February 12 2020 12:37 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 11:43 cLutZ wrote:On February 12 2020 07:07 iCanada wrote:
I find it hilarious that Riots response to no one wanting to play jungle was to just take like ten random but popular Champions and buff their jungle clear. Lol. TBH, I think they should do this more. Every champion should be able to jungle effectively, if not competitively. Thats like S2 jungle then. And no, while I have done it, some champs like Anivia are not meant to jungle. You'd basically either have to put a ton of damage onto the jungle item, or else weaken the camps to the point where past 5 minutes the S tier junglers kill camps in a couple seconds.
S2 was, IMO the healthiest jungle meta I ever played in. I don't think clearing camps should be a significant achievement (and it really isn't) in LOL given how they balance the game. I'd rather they just be capture the flag that is a question between lane presence and gold. Wraiths are obviously a problem in this vision (move them much closer to the spawning point, problem solved), but travel time is still the only real limiting factor for junglers, its just in the current meta there are very few that can do a good first clear.
Riot's jungle vision is very confused because they have not chosen a route. They kinda committed to dedicated jungler in S3 by introducing jungle items (a mistake IMO), but then they have never really allowed for the jungler to be a dedicated position. They have always failed to balance the farm/gank dichotomy, and because of continued vision nerfs its gotten much more RNG oriented.
It you want to go the supportive route, that they sort of have committed to, just have capture the flag. Otherwise, push all the camps to parts that are kinda inconvenient for laners and allow powerfarming, but because vision sucks now that is easily balanced by the power of ganks.
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S2 we had Wriggle's Lantern dominate, and saw the oppressive counter junglers, aka Shyv, Udyr and Lee. It was not a fun time when Amumu was level 3 while Lee was 6 because he denied the first two camps and there nothing you could do to get back in the game. M5 was the first hyped up EU team though, along with CLG.EU. Good Times.
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are we sure that riot is not test putting these champions in the jungle and if it works, next step - removing them from mid and top so they dont have to balance their feast or famine match ups anymore )
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Shouldn't jungle Zed be even more feast or famine than lane Zed?
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On February 13 2020 00:24 M2 wrote:are we sure that riot is not test putting these champions in the jungle and if it works, next step - removing them from mid and top so they dont have to balance their feast or famine match ups anymore )
If it means Darius is going to become a jungler and kicked out of top I think 94% of all toplaners will clap their hands and praise the sun. 
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I tried Darius in the jungle on the PBE, tbh his clear is actually kind of ridiculous with the attack speed slow on W, the increased bleed damage, his Q heal / W reset working on monsters, and the way his bleed interacts with talisman burn. He can full clear pretty quickly and safely if you kite well, are good at hitting Q on camps, and manage bleeds / burns well. I did a no leash full clear in about 3:15, and I think it was far from optimal. Think there would be a ton of time you could shave managing passive well kiting camps, particularly at raptors / wolves. His clear is so safe that honestly I think you could take rejuv bead or buy a pink level 1, although with the trinket trick not sure a level 1 pink really gets you much really game; pots ticking in a fight likely more valuable. Easily the clear speed likely gets to the Nocturne / Graves level, maybe even is able to compete with the Karthus / Olaf / Nidalees.
I think him full clearing into contesting the first crab would be scary as hell, as you'd for sure be level 4 as crab spawns. Also not sure how any low elo jungler with a poorly optimized clear would possibly deal with a Darius Blue>Gromp>Red invade. I think you'd get a multiple camp lead reliably almost every game. Low elo Olaf, if you will.
In decent level play he needs Ghost + Flash to be useful at all, but I think if you went Predator + Sorcery for nimbus cloak and water walking while taking blue smite I think you're gaining a larger movement speed differential between you and your opponent than you are with ghost.
He's good at taking crab, and I think he can win nearly every 1v1 against real meta junglers. Even stuff like Olaf, Udyr, and Trundle can't win that 1v1 I don't think. Tbh I think he'll be broken as hell until you get to matchmaking ranges where Champions like Nidalee and Graves are played consistently and players have mechanics to outplay the 1v1, or laners are good enough to win the 2v2 with say Leesin / Elise. I don't think his ganks are anything special, but with predator, Darius burst damage, blue smite, and pull I could see him being a monster in lower level games same as say a Volibear, just a touch more farm focused.
On February 13 2020 00:24 M2 wrote:are we sure that riot is not test putting these champions in the jungle and if it works, next step - removing them from mid and top so they dont have to balance their feast or famine match ups anymore )
Imo all of these Champions will be much more feast / famine in the jungle. I feel like the jungle in general is hard feast / famine as it is. I'm either 5/1/X and winning in 25 minutes, or I'm 0/3/X and losing in 25 minutes
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On February 12 2020 21:37 DarkCore wrote:
S2 we had Wriggle's Lantern dominate, and saw the oppressive counter junglers, aka Shyv, Udyr and Lee. It was not a fun time when Amumu was level 3 while Lee was 6 because he denied the first two camps and there nothing you could do to get back in the game. M5 was the first hyped up EU team though, along with CLG.EU. Good Times.
You can still do that to an Amumu, pretty much. The difference is mostly that laners react to invades more, Lee Sin has just been straight nerfed compared to his S2 power level, and also people don't really pick Amumu anymore because mobility creep has hit him harder than just about anybody.
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Do we have a general discord or matchmaking thread to find duo partners?
Havent played in years and got placed in Iron 5, climbed up to silver 4 in the last 2 weeks, but it'd be nice to have some people to play / climb with. Plat 1 was my highest.
My IGN is Luck. I play on NA.
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On February 12 2020 07:07 iCanada wrote:
I find it hilarious that Riots response to no one wanting to play jungle was to just take like ten random but popular Champions and buff their jungle clear. Lol.
Mark my words, if they push these changes through, the jungle is going to be busted broken. Non CC junglers are a touchy point of balance, because technically the main conditions for a jungler are solid ganks and good wave clear, and junglers which try to bypass the former (like Karthus) only become pickable when they completely mess with the meta. I don't want to suddenly see mid Lulu with jungle Zed camping lanes.
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On February 12 2020 21:37 DarkCore wrote:
S2 we had Wriggle's Lantern dominate, and saw the oppressive counter junglers, aka Shyv, Udyr and Lee. It was not a fun time when Amumu was level 3 while Lee was 6 because he denied the first two camps and there nothing you could do to get back in the game. M5 was the first hyped up EU team though, along with CLG.EU. Good Times.
I mean there was also the period where you could pick nunu, and if your team had strong level 1 champs you could walk straight into enemy jungle and take every big monster with no contest possible because consume did like 100 more damage than smite, and set the enemy jungler back into the stone age because the little creeps gave jack shit for XP.
That was a whole lot of fun to deal with.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
History quiz: what are some examples of the weirdest "fad" champions or metas that were popular for a patch or two, and then immediately nerfed and then never seen again?
Off the top of my head:
* Soraka top (most recently)
* Klepto Viktor top
* Runeglaive Ezreal mid
* Ezreal jungle
* Taric double relic shield top
Also tempted to give honorable mention to Ardent Censer, which somehow in one patch, without even being buffed in that patch, went from "no one built it" to "you're trolling if you don't start Relic Shield on the ADC to help your support rush it even faster".
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The initial Soraka top was probably worse because she was quite the lane bully on top of that.
I guess various iterations of assassins built as bruisers don't count because these laster longer than a patch or two?
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* When League of Black Cleavers happened, we actually saw old Talon played, once it was over he fell into obscurity again. Old Panth also saw play.
* Mid lane old Soraka super pushing the lane without any sort of counter play.
* AP Tryndamere (on Twisted Treeline) this persisted for quite some time but only because Riot didn't care.
* Alistar top lane (also jungle) with the dumb W-AA mechanic
* Vision changes (trinket introduction, removal of green wards) resulting in obnoxious Teemo games (think TSM played it at Worlds?).
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* Lulu jungle was popular at some point.
* If Viktor top counts then maybe Shyvana top with smite too?
* Warwick 4.20.
* Spellthief Zilean top
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noooo why are the quote and edit buttons so similar
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On February 14 2020 04:00 Sent. wrote:
noooo why are the quote and edit buttons so similar
Learnt this the hard way two weeks into admin powers when i meant to quote and just edited someone's entire message as my own...
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What was obnoxious about klepto Viktor that wasn't about other ranged top-viable champions? He's only got 525 aa range although his Q kinda alleviates that.
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Viktor pushes quite well, Q is on a low CD (maxing it first) so shield and MS made him untradeable. So you pushed melee champs into their turret and harassed them for free gold. Also E used to have better early damage, and all that gold snowballed you so insanely hard. And the IBG first build was retarded...
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Support Nasus. I think that was a liquid legends special, I want to say Monte said it was lulzy and then Loci chatted it up. Was even picked in pro games. Then gone after a patch.
And then there is the old SmashGizmo special sauce nunu top.
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EPT
