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On October 03 2017 01:18 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).
Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.
Mundo has issues for other reasons though.
That's not how math works.
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On October 03 2017 01:36 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2017 01:18 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).
Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.
Mundo has issues for other reasons though. That's not how math works.
LOL which way isnt how math works?
that 138% * 60% = .82.8% Or wondering if the formula is instead 100%+ (38%-40%) = 98%.
Because i said both ways. because im not sure how the formula calculates increased/reduced healing.
The math is correct though.
Grevious wounds still removes the effect of SV either way, but it doesnt particular gimp mundo's healing.
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Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Heal enhancers like Censer and Mikael's stack additive and Grievous Wounds is a multiplier to the total result, so no. You're wrong in both cases. Grievous Wounds is a hard counter to heal enhancing effects.
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On October 03 2017 01:46 Jek wrote:
Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Heal enhancers like Censer and Mikael's stack additive and Grievous Wounds is a multiplier to the total result, so no. You're wrong in both cases. Grievous Wounds is a hard counter to heal enhancing effects.
(psst 100-82.8 is 17.2%)
the items counter act the 40% debuff and reduce it to a 17.2% debuff in effectiveness.
and effectiveness is the point. Mundo is healing only 17.2% less than he would without any modifiers to his healing.
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You really dont understand fundamental math.
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On October 03 2017 01:55 Jek wrote:
You really dont understand fundamental math.
you dont seem to understand the difference between changes in isolation and changes as a group.
The difference between Grevious vs a 100 HP heal (-40 healing) with no healing buffs and Grevious vs 100 Heal +38% healing (-17.2 Healing).
Im talking the difference in the debuff from the value of the heal between those situations. not the difference that grevious changes alone. because thats 40% its right there in the description. The Effectiveness on the same heal is different though. a 100 HP heal goes to 60 in the former, and to 82.8 in the second.
It doesnt matter at all that the heal gets buffed to 138 before the grevious wounds when it comes to living or dying. its still a 100 HP heal that turns to 82.8, rather than 60, like it would without the SV/mastery. The background math doesnt impact how much HP you have at the end of the heal, only the total result of the changes.
its similar to the difference of Armor on physical damage. 100 Armor = 50% reduction, 200 armor = 75% reduction. 100 Armor is a 100% increase in effective Hp whether its the first hundred or the second. but the Incoming damage 100 damage is reduced by 50 for the first 100 and by 25 for the 2nd 100. even though relatively its 50% both ways. or 100% in effective HP.
When we're talking about the difference in absolute health. Whether you heal enough to live or not, is binary. whether you block enough physical damage or not, is binary. and looking at your heal of 100 and saying okay i'll have 82.8 more hp after this heal, or looking at the incoming 100 physical damage and saying okay if i use this 100 Armor buff i'll take 25 less damage than if i dont.
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And I really dont care about buzzwords when you're not even wrong.
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On October 03 2017 02:08 Jek wrote: when you're not even wrong.
As long as we can agree on something.
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On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:As long as we can agree on something.
Heh
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Im talking the difference in the debuff from the value of the heal between those situations. not the difference that grevious changes alone. because thats 40% its right there in the description. The Effectiveness on the same heal is different though. a 100 HP heal goes to 60 in the former, and to 82.8 in the second.
Please tell me you realize that turning a 138 heal into 82.8 is a 40% decrease and not 17.2% which is why
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).
Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.
This is completely wrong. Grievous Wounds is extremely bad for Mundo and any champion building +heal% items.
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
It doesnt matter at all that the heal gets buffed to 138 before the grevious wounds when it comes to living or dying. its still a 100 HP heal that turns to 82.8, rather than 60, like it would without the SV/mastery. The background math doesnt impact how much HP you have at the end of the heal, only the total result of the changes.
I honestly dont know if you're trolling at this point.
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Screw the numbers as a Mundo player I can tell you playing into roa users makes the game so much easier. Yes full blown late game mundo can still be a monster vs 2-3 ap comps but it's morello rush mids vs your lvl 6 and to some extent 11 ults that can set you behind.
Imo mundo is really powerful right now if you only pick him in situations where you can abuse his free mr. This isn't exclusive to roa mids, but roa mids do exaggerate his strength contrary to what PX stated.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 03 2017 02:48 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 03 2017 02:08 Jek wrote: when you're not even wrong. As long as we can agree on something. HehShow nested quote +On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Im talking the difference in the debuff from the value of the heal between those situations. not the difference that grevious changes alone. because thats 40% its right there in the description. The Effectiveness on the same heal is different though. a 100 HP heal goes to 60 in the former, and to 82.8 in the second. Please tell me you realize that turning a 138 heal into 82.8 is a 40% decrease and not 17.2% which is why Show nested quote +On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).
Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones. This is completely wrong. Grievous Wounds is extremely bad for Mundo and any champion building +heal% items. Show nested quote +On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
It doesnt matter at all that the heal gets buffed to 138 before the grevious wounds when it comes to living or dying. its still a 100 HP heal that turns to 82.8, rather than 60, like it would without the SV/mastery. The background math doesnt impact how much HP you have at the end of the heal, only the total result of the changes. I honestly dont know if you're trolling at this point.
I guess PX's argument is that GV is partially offset by SV + mastery so it's no big deal. But that's super dumb, because every Mundo builds SV and takes the healing mastery regardless of whether GV is being built. It is rather like saying, stealing your wallet is no big deal because it'll be offset by you getting your paycheck tomorrow. But I was going to get my paycheck anyway ...
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To play devils advocate I think he meant (before the math) in situations where mundo is good he's still good even in the presence of wounds.
To which I say yes mundo is still good vs heavy magic teams even if they get grevious once you are 16 and have 3+ Major items. However in the early game which is where a lot of games are decided (which is probably why he sees no pro play despite being really strong vs the right champs) the difference between a roa mid and a morello mid is night and day. Lvl 6 may as well not even exist into grevious.
(Bramble doesn't really matter as cleaver does 90% of you damage to tanks anyway so you can just not auto them)
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Mundo is great to run people down they never expect the auto damage. I usually don't bother getting SV though.
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On October 03 2017 06:45 Ansibled wrote:
Mundo is great to run people down they never expect the auto damage. I usually don't bother getting SV though.
Smurfing with PD first mundo is actually hilarious.
Do it some time. LOL.
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You people are forgetting that when people see Mundo, they automatically buy an Exec on ADC and then the ArPen upgrade. That is such a debuff for Mundo, he will still be extremely tanky because that's how he builds, but because he has no proper engage, that is mitigated by the fact he can be kited.
Mundo is a good situational pick, if you see a comp where you can get away with him, he's pretty scary. His Q is a nightmare for other tanks to sustain through in the top lane, and he can 1vs2 the jungler if you let him sit and farm in the right matchup.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 03 2017 06:24 Slusher wrote:
(Bramble doesn't really matter as cleaver does 90% of you damage to tanks anyway so you can just not auto them)
Bramble Vest introduced a new interesting mechanic to League that didn't exist before - the importance of NOT autoattacking the enemy tank as Swain/Vladimir. I see it most often in ARAMs.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I would have thought that the video where he's spamming tab/F-keys/ESC while walking into a recalling Elise who proceeds to slowly kill him as he continues to spam menu keys, was the last word on LS and his APM spam.
I also like the claims that it's a habit he can't break. Yes, because I too often will randomly 1a2a3a 0p9p8p during games.
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All watching LS does is remind me that I miss seeing Monte/Doa cast LCK. It's kinda funny, because SpoTV is far better without LS; but in the way it's better to have a root canal than a leg amputated. The lack of good casters in LoL is glaring.
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EPT
