• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:34
CET 12:34
KST 20:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War Do we even care about balance? [Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team Bot on ladder Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7588 users

[Patch 7.19] Post Worlds 2017 General Discussion - Page 7

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
October 02 2017 16:36 GMT
#121
On October 03 2017 01:18 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).

Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.

Mundo has issues for other reasons though.

That's not how math works.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 16:40:38
October 02 2017 16:39 GMT
#122
On October 03 2017 01:36 Jek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 01:18 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).

Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.

Mundo has issues for other reasons though.

That's not how math works.


LOL which way isnt how math works?

that 138% * 60% = .82.8% Or wondering if the formula is instead 100%+ (38%-40%) = 98%.

Because i said both ways. because im not sure how the formula calculates increased/reduced healing.

The math is correct though.

Grevious wounds still removes the effect of SV either way, but it doesnt particular gimp mundo's healing.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 16:50:12
October 02 2017 16:46 GMT
#123
Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Heal enhancers like Censer and Mikael's stack additive and Grievous Wounds is a multiplier to the total result, so no. You're wrong in both cases. Grievous Wounds is a hard counter to heal enhancing effects.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 16:55:47
October 02 2017 16:54 GMT
#124
On October 03 2017 01:46 Jek wrote:
Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Lowering his heal to 82.8% from 138% is a 40% decrease not a 17.2% decease. Heal enhancers like Censer and Mikael's stack additive and Grievous Wounds is a multiplier to the total result, so no. You're wrong in both cases. Grievous Wounds is a hard counter to heal enhancing effects.

(psst 100-82.8 is 17.2%)

the items counter act the 40% debuff and reduce it to a 17.2% debuff in effectiveness.

and effectiveness is the point. Mundo is healing only 17.2% less than he would without any modifiers to his healing.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
October 02 2017 16:55 GMT
#125
You really dont understand fundamental math.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 17:06:34
October 02 2017 16:58 GMT
#126
On October 03 2017 01:55 Jek wrote:
You really dont understand fundamental math.

you dont seem to understand the difference between changes in isolation and changes as a group.

The difference between Grevious vs a 100 HP heal (-40 healing) with no healing buffs and Grevious vs 100 Heal +38% healing (-17.2 Healing).

Im talking the difference in the debuff from the value of the heal between those situations. not the difference that grevious changes alone. because thats 40% its right there in the description. The Effectiveness on the same heal is different though. a 100 HP heal goes to 60 in the former, and to 82.8 in the second.

It doesnt matter at all that the heal gets buffed to 138 before the grevious wounds when it comes to living or dying. its still a 100 HP heal that turns to 82.8, rather than 60, like it would without the SV/mastery. The background math doesnt impact how much HP you have at the end of the heal, only the total result of the changes.

its similar to the difference of Armor on physical damage. 100 Armor = 50% reduction, 200 armor = 75% reduction. 100 Armor is a 100% increase in effective Hp whether its the first hundred or the second. but the Incoming damage 100 damage is reduced by 50 for the first 100 and by 25 for the 2nd 100. even though relatively its 50% both ways. or 100% in effective HP.

When we're talking about the difference in absolute health. Whether you heal enough to live or not, is binary. whether you block enough physical damage or not, is binary. and looking at your heal of 100 and saying okay i'll have 82.8 more hp after this heal, or looking at the incoming 100 physical damage and saying okay if i use this 100 Armor buff i'll take 25 less damage than if i dont.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
October 02 2017 17:08 GMT
#127
And I really dont care about buzzwords when you're not even wrong.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
October 02 2017 17:08 GMT
#128
On October 03 2017 02:08 Jek wrote: when you're not even wrong.

As long as we can agree on something.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 17:49:26
October 02 2017 17:48 GMT
#129
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 02:08 Jek wrote: when you're not even wrong.

As long as we can agree on something.

Heh

On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Im talking the difference in the debuff from the value of the heal between those situations. not the difference that grevious changes alone. because thats 40% its right there in the description. The Effectiveness on the same heal is different though. a 100 HP heal goes to 60 in the former, and to 82.8 in the second.

Please tell me you realize that turning a 138 heal into 82.8 is a 40% decrease and not 17.2% which is why

On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).

Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.

This is completely wrong. Grievous Wounds is extremely bad for Mundo and any champion building +heal% items.

On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
It doesnt matter at all that the heal gets buffed to 138 before the grevious wounds when it comes to living or dying. its still a 100 HP heal that turns to 82.8, rather than 60, like it would without the SV/mastery. The background math doesnt impact how much HP you have at the end of the heal, only the total result of the changes.

I honestly dont know if you're trolling at this point.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 02 2017 18:40 GMT
#130
Screw the numbers as a Mundo player I can tell you playing into roa users makes the game so much easier. Yes full blown late game mundo can still be a monster vs 2-3 ap comps but it's morello rush mids vs your lvl 6 and to some extent 11 ults that can set you behind.

Imo mundo is really powerful right now if you only pick him in situations where you can abuse his free mr. This isn't exclusive to roa mids, but roa mids do exaggerate his strength contrary to what PX stated.
Carrilord has arrived.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
October 02 2017 21:04 GMT
#131
On October 03 2017 02:48 Jek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
On October 03 2017 02:08 Jek wrote: when you're not even wrong.

As long as we can agree on something.

Heh

Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Im talking the difference in the debuff from the value of the heal between those situations. not the difference that grevious changes alone. because thats 40% its right there in the description. The Effectiveness on the same heal is different though. a 100 HP heal goes to 60 in the former, and to 82.8 in the second.

Please tell me you realize that turning a 138 heal into 82.8 is a 40% decrease and not 17.2% which is why

Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
Grevious wounds vs mundo isnt too bad ever since it got dropped to 40%, it's practically counteracted by a mastery and SV, which results in a 17% debuff instead of a 40% (i think. it might just be a 2% debuff, the math on that is unclear, if its multiplicative on healing received or additive with bonuses to healing received).

Stuff like redemption, locket, and Mikaels are actually good on mundo anyway, because of how weird his stat likes are and totally counteract the grevious pain if you get one of the healing ones.

This is completely wrong. Grievous Wounds is extremely bad for Mundo and any champion building +heal% items.

Show nested quote +
On October 03 2017 02:08 PrinceXizor wrote:
It doesnt matter at all that the heal gets buffed to 138 before the grevious wounds when it comes to living or dying. its still a 100 HP heal that turns to 82.8, rather than 60, like it would without the SV/mastery. The background math doesnt impact how much HP you have at the end of the heal, only the total result of the changes.

I honestly dont know if you're trolling at this point.

I guess PX's argument is that GV is partially offset by SV + mastery so it's no big deal. But that's super dumb, because every Mundo builds SV and takes the healing mastery regardless of whether GV is being built. It is rather like saying, stealing your wallet is no big deal because it'll be offset by you getting your paycheck tomorrow. But I was going to get my paycheck anyway ...
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 02 2017 21:24 GMT
#132
To play devils advocate I think he meant (before the math) in situations where mundo is good he's still good even in the presence of wounds.

To which I say yes mundo is still good vs heavy magic teams even if they get grevious once you are 16 and have 3+ Major items. However in the early game which is where a lot of games are decided (which is probably why he sees no pro play despite being really strong vs the right champs) the difference between a roa mid and a morello mid is night and day. Lvl 6 may as well not even exist into grevious.

(Bramble doesn't really matter as cleaver does 90% of you damage to tanks anyway so you can just not auto them)
Carrilord has arrived.
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-02 21:47:02
October 02 2017 21:45 GMT
#133
Mundo is great to run people down they never expect the auto damage. I usually don't bother getting SV though.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 03 2017 00:50 GMT
#134
On October 03 2017 06:45 Ansibled wrote:
Mundo is great to run people down they never expect the auto damage. I usually don't bother getting SV though.


Smurfing with PD first mundo is actually hilarious.

Do it some time. LOL.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
October 03 2017 07:20 GMT
#135
You people are forgetting that when people see Mundo, they automatically buy an Exec on ADC and then the ArPen upgrade. That is such a debuff for Mundo, he will still be extremely tanky because that's how he builds, but because he has no proper engage, that is mitigated by the fact he can be kited.

Mundo is a good situational pick, if you see a comp where you can get away with him, he's pretty scary. His Q is a nightmare for other tanks to sustain through in the top lane, and he can 1vs2 the jungler if you let him sit and farm in the right matchup.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 03 2017 12:41 GMT
#136
--- Nuked ---
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
October 03 2017 14:33 GMT
#137
On October 03 2017 06:24 Slusher wrote:
(Bramble doesn't really matter as cleaver does 90% of you damage to tanks anyway so you can just not auto them)

Bramble Vest introduced a new interesting mechanic to League that didn't exist before - the importance of NOT autoattacking the enemy tank as Swain/Vladimir. I see it most often in ARAMs.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 15:46:06
October 03 2017 15:45 GMT
#138
Funny Reddit thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7406ot/ls_lost_it/

It's really hilarious how people view apm/starcraft as some mythical thing.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-03 15:55:43
October 03 2017 15:55 GMT
#139
I would have thought that the video where he's spamming tab/F-keys/ESC while walking into a recalling Elise who proceeds to slowly kill him as he continues to spam menu keys, was the last word on LS and his APM spam.

I also like the claims that it's a habit he can't break. Yes, because I too often will randomly 1a2a3a 0p9p8p during games.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
October 03 2017 16:34 GMT
#140
All watching LS does is remind me that I miss seeing Monte/Doa cast LCK. It's kinda funny, because SpoTV is far better without LS; but in the way it's better to have a root canal than a leg amputated. The lack of good casters in LoL is glaring.
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19:00
Weekly #152 (SHIN Mod Edition)
ByuN vs PercivalLIVE!
herO vs Shameless
CranKy Ducklings162
SHIN 23
CranKy Ducklings SOOP11
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
19:00
ScienceCraft - Day 2
IndyStarCraft 289
RotterdaM215
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 379
IndyStarCraft 289
RotterdaM 215
SHIN 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 44526
Shuttle 12817
Bisu 3268
firebathero 1069
BeSt 1040
Horang2 979
Hyuk 564
FanTaSy 525
Stork 254
Mind 249
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 217
Last 145
Killer 124
Light 105
Hyun 93
ggaemo 77
Pusan 69
Movie 69
Bonyth 62
Mong 44
Barracks 43
ToSsGirL 34
Sexy 30
scan(afreeca) 30
Bale 29
Shinee 27
sorry 25
Aegong 24
Hm[arnc] 23
zelot 21
yabsab 16
soO 14
Noble 13
Shine 12
Sacsri 9
Dota 2
Gorgc12639
XcaliburYe169
Counter-Strike
allub960
x6flipin228
Other Games
B2W.Neo1081
singsing1015
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL20232
Other Games
gamesdonequick1255
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 13
lovetv 9
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 35
• Adnapsc2 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1591
• WagamamaTV404
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11h 26m
WardiTV Weekly
1d
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 23h
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.