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I haven't booted up League in about a patch and a half now and I've only seen it in NA LCS but not LCK yet. Someone explain to me why Gunblade LeBlanc is a thing now, ty.
On April 19 2017 11:08 NeoIllusions wrote: I haven't booted up League in about a patch and a half now and I've only seen it in NA LCS but not LCK yet. Someone explain to me why Gunblade LeBlanc is a thing now, ty.
LeBlanc was OP as all fuck. They nerfed her damage. GB active(or just revolver, since it's sometimes built into Protobelt) spikes really hard as a 1st or 2nd item on her and makes up for the nerfs.
With Gunblade specifically, the slow from the active makes it very easy to land chains. When she uses her Q to pop her passive marks, each one counts as single target effect, so the GB healing isn't reduced. This makes her really hard to deal with as a split pusher. One common ways teams dealt with LeBlanc in the past was to pick Caitlyn and ult LB whenever it came out to chunk her and force her to back. But now with the healing that's less effective.
one of her biggest weaknesses (mentioned above) got solved by gunblade.sustain. she no longer has to worry about being poked out by point and click spells.
though her damage took a big hit, it doesn't matter when she is still one of the best roaming mids in the game with an easy laning phase and incredible cc/single target lockdown.
shes definitely stronger in competitive though since she takes the biggest advantage out of team coordination and without it is quite mediocre. namely the tower dives and letting her get priority in a sidelane splitpushing and playing around that.
i've been an on and off leblanc player over the seasons and i've had a hard time using this iteration of leblanc in my games because people don't know how to play with her properly.
From the Shen notes, "At the moment, his built-in waveclear gives him consistent map-pressure". Today I learned that by Riot standards autoattacking minions to death is considered waveclear. Stand aside Sivir and make way for Vayne the new Queen of waveclear.
On April 19 2017 17:29 Fildun wrote: Are the Shen changes even nerfs?
Ult change is a huge nerf, it's much weaker as a proactive move now and the CD increase is pretty brutal. The change to Q is sorta of a small buff and nerf at the same time but E is a straight up buff.
I decided to test out the reworked Udyr and it was pretty interesting. Full tank Udyr can solo Baron and Elder without using any abilities if he's just in Turtle stance, takes a loooong time but he can. The turtle proc doesn't work on towers, but if there's a minion wave close he can just face tank tower and outheal it's damage with turtle procs on the creeps. Tiger stance is pretty nice, but had too much fun derping around with Immortal Stance to really test the claws.
While trash full tank Udyr looks like dankest troll build now.
Some changes like Zac's Q update are nice but I think Riot failed or didn't even try to fix the problem with tanks having low skill ceilings. Support changes are interesting but will probably end up negligible.
The Warmog's change on the PBE is what I would call a "Cloud Drake" buff: when there's something that's already strong but the community doesn't appreciate it, and Riot goes "fine we're going to overbuff the ever-living hell out of this until you realize how fucking good it is".
Incidentally I signed an NDA so I cannot go into detail, but I participated in some preliminary testing of their ranked teams replacement and it was fucking awesome.
Some changes like Zac's Q update are nice but I think Riot failed or didn't even try to fix the problem with tanks having low skill ceilings. Support changes are interesting but will probably end up negligible.
I think the goal was to make them have more interesting decisions. That's different than raising skill ceilings - I'm fine with that. Not every champion needs to have five paragraphs of text on every ability and complex/unintuitive interactions with 40 different spells. You need some champs that are easier to play than others - case in point, it's a damn travesty Ryze is still listed as one of the "beginner" champions in the game.
I'm actually really hyped for this change because it should stop EULCS from being unbearable to watch, it should kill a lot of the lul where you wait for things to do.
On April 20 2017 00:30 GrandInquisitor wrote: The Warmog's change on the PBE is what I would call a "Cloud Drake" buff: when there's something that's already strong but the community doesn't appreciate it, and Riot goes "fine we're going to overbuff the ever-living hell out of this until you realize how fucking good it is".
Incidentally I signed an NDA so I cannot go into detail, but I participated in some preliminary testing of their ranked teams replacement and it was fucking awesome.
Now I know you can't say much about it, but does it allow people with a big difference in rank to play together?
I'm actually really hyped for this change because it should stop EULCS from being unbearable to watch, it should kill a lot of the lul where you wait for things to do.
It's hard to form a definitive opinion at this point, but I'm afraid it is strong enough to result in drakes being ignored because of the risk of giving away rift herald, potentially leading to stale gameplay.
On April 20 2017 00:30 GrandInquisitor wrote: The Warmog's change on the PBE is what I would call a "Cloud Drake" buff: when there's something that's already strong but the community doesn't appreciate it, and Riot goes "fine we're going to overbuff the ever-living hell out of this until you realize how fucking good it is".
Incidentally I signed an NDA so I cannot go into detail, but I participated in some preliminary testing of their ranked teams replacement and it was fucking awesome.
Now I know you can't say much about it, but does it allow people with a big difference in rank to play together?
On April 20 2017 02:31 VayneAuthority wrote: for that ranked teams thing you tested was there any glaring way they are going to crack down on smurfs ruining it? simple yes/no/cant say is fine
It's not really that I can't say so much as I have no idea, because the way it worked for us was definitely different than how it'd actually work. We basically got an email invitation rather like their occasional surveys, so I don't know what they'll actually do when the feature goes public. I will say that skill gaps did exist, but nothing too drastic (e.g. we got our asses beat but not like we had Bronzes up vs Challengers or anything).
From a common sense perspective, I assume there's of course going to be *some* kind of rank restriction - just a question of how permissive that restriction is, which is ultimately a judgment call. As for smurfs, I would assume that they'll have some enforcement mechanism - and my experience was fun enough that I can see being banned from participating as a strong enough disincentive to not cheat/smurf.
xayah seems super strong... i like rakan ulti but dont like him too much otherwise. could be strong but not sure xayah im pretty sure is a very strong champ right now lol
Rakan looks too mobile not to be strong honestly, unless they gut his numbers. Maybe not at the moment, but when people learn to play him, he should become OP with so much mobility and utility, he is like support Lee sin on steroids
I got 4 free wins off xayah last night and people on the other team were complaining having similar experiences.
It was a pleasant surprise from Lucian killing me as a full tank malphite/nasus in 3 seconds to being able to tank their full team easily with xayah adc. Felt like she did no damage.
I don't think she can be viable while lucian/ezreal/twitch/kog exist in their current states in solo q. BOTRK doesnt seem to synergize with her as well as them which is all that matters atm.
Maybe she can be good once this botrk thing is gone.
On April 20 2017 22:43 VayneAuthority wrote: I got 4 free wins off xayah last night and people on the other team were complaining having similar experiences.
It was a pleasant surprise from Lucian killing me as a full tank malphite/nasus in 3 seconds to being able to tank their full team easily with xayah adc. Felt like she did no damage.
I don't think she can be viable while lucian/ezreal/twitch/kog exist in their current states in solo q. BOTRK doesnt seem to synergize with her as well as them which is all that matters atm.
Maybe she can be good once this botrk thing is gone.
You mean fervor. They need to change fervor back to on hit rather than flat ad.
i've only played 4 xayah games so far but to me she felt very strong in lane (though not lucian tier) and didn't seem to fall off really
I liked her as a 'duelist' as I often dueled either the other adc or just self peeled vs their divers with my ulti and root from feathers. damage was always high with consistently 2nd or most damage on team with both low and high kills. late game she falls off but still felt ok.
lucian should outshine her as the 'safe adc that wins lane and can duel with strong midgame' but I think she is quite good. and she seems like one of those champs that get better in competitive.
1. start raptors with leash (unless youre graves), red, scuttle/blue, rest of blue side 2. gank every lane forever and fuck jungle cs. 3. repeat 4. proceed to outscale the enemy jungler through kills even if he takes over your jungle. 5. win game
Lucian is so strong right now that I as a first time Lucian could carry a game with him.... Me being able to solocarry might as well be the measure for whether or not a champion is broken. lol
EDIT: Got 10 gemstones now! :O Should I grab Space Marine Darius and become a OTP or wait to see what next skin is?
On April 20 2017 23:24 AaronEdwards1989 wrote: Hello I am trying to save up for Xayah I only have 300 ip I was hoping someone would gift me her please would be very much appreciated
have you gotten it? otherwise i can gift her to you
Well, I think it's the first time I've seen a 1 poster begging for an IP gift, and I've been here for quite a while. You'd think that reddit or somewhere else would be better.
Even though I own every champ at this point, with enough IP to buy the next one already(and then some), I'd rather save it for chromas or to gift less passionate friends champs.
I've been looking over the PBE and there's a few things I'm a bit iffy about. The new Adaptive Helm + Show Spoiler +
Adaptive Helm Total Cost: 2800g Sells for: 1960g Recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Spectre's Cowl + Rejuvenation Bead + 1000g +300 Health +55 Magic Resist +100% Base Health Regeneration +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Taking magic damage from a spell or effect reduces all subsequent magic damage taken from that spell or effect by 15% for 4 seconds.
in particular and isn't it like... Completely and utterly broken against dot heavy champions? In top wouldn't it be a huge indirect nerf to champions like Rumble. All the individual parts are sweet in the matchups it's good so it's not like there's any awkward buys in it.
Relic Shield line quest added: Quest: Earn 650 gold using this item and upgrade to Targon's Brace. Reward: Shield Battery, a permanent shield that regenerates slowly outside of combat.
if the shield is any kind of good what's to stop the ADC from getting it?
The silly amount of resists AD assassins can get now without really sacrificing damage: -Guardian Angel -Maw -QSS -Edge of Night -Merc/Tabis In games where Cleaver is enough armor pen AD assassins can basically become bruisers. The items have incredible strong passives too.
On April 29 2017 00:49 kongoline wrote: are ad assassins even strong? it feels like every game is dominated by adc using those items with extreme numbers of shields supports have nowadays
I'm sitting at a solid 68% winrate as a rengar one trick in gold 4 so here in low elo they're pretty good.
as for higher elo? I haven't seen much khazix or rengar. mostly zac, elise, graves, lee sin. I can't get a proper read on the jungle meta right now, I can't tell what items are broken or anything
On April 28 2017 22:51 Jek wrote: I've been looking over the PBE and there's a few things I'm a bit iffy about. The new Adaptive Helm + Show Spoiler +
Adaptive Helm Total Cost: 2800g Sells for: 1960g Recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Spectre's Cowl + Rejuvenation Bead + 1000g +300 Health +55 Magic Resist +100% Base Health Regeneration +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Taking magic damage from a spell or effect reduces all subsequent magic damage taken from that spell or effect by 15% for 4 seconds.
in particular and isn't it like... Completely and utterly broken against dot heavy champions? In top wouldn't it be a huge indirect nerf to champions like Rumble. All the individual parts are sweet in the matchups it's good so it's not like there's any awkward buys in it.
Relic Shield line quest added: Quest: Earn 650 gold using this item and upgrade to Targon's Brace. Reward: Shield Battery, a permanent shield that regenerates slowly outside of combat.
if the shield is any kind of good what's to stop the ADC from getting it?
The silly amount of resists AD assassins can get now without really sacrificing damage: -Guardian Angel -Maw -QSS -Edge of Night -Merc/Tabis In games where Cleaver is enough armor pen AD assassins can basically become bruisers. The items have incredible strong passives too.
Yea, IDK why they decided they needed an anti-sustained AP item. That is like...2 characters?
On April 28 2017 22:51 Jek wrote: I've been looking over the PBE and there's a few things I'm a bit iffy about. The new Adaptive Helm + Show Spoiler +
Adaptive Helm Total Cost: 2800g Sells for: 1960g Recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Spectre's Cowl + Rejuvenation Bead + 1000g +300 Health +55 Magic Resist +100% Base Health Regeneration +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Taking magic damage from a spell or effect reduces all subsequent magic damage taken from that spell or effect by 15% for 4 seconds.
in particular and isn't it like... Completely and utterly broken against dot heavy champions? In top wouldn't it be a huge indirect nerf to champions like Rumble. All the individual parts are sweet in the matchups it's good so it's not like there's any awkward buys in it.
Relic Shield line quest added: Quest: Earn 650 gold using this item and upgrade to Targon's Brace. Reward: Shield Battery, a permanent shield that regenerates slowly outside of combat.
if the shield is any kind of good what's to stop the ADC from getting it?
The silly amount of resists AD assassins can get now without really sacrificing damage: -Guardian Angel -Maw -QSS -Edge of Night -Merc/Tabis In games where Cleaver is enough armor pen AD assassins can basically become bruisers. The items have incredible strong passives too.
Yea, IDK why they decided they needed an anti-sustained AP item. That is like...2 characters?
The way it's worded it should work vs any kind of dot or multi hit ability. Off the top of my head: DFT Liandry Sunfire Cape Any magic damage on-hit (Wits' End, Varus, Kayle etc etc) Rumble Singed Cass everything not ult Swain dots+ult Ryze Katarina ult + passives whatever might have been reset
As worded it's far from just being a FU Ryze/Cass/Karthus item. Heck it should work vs Baron's magic damage too.
I think Riot said that the idea is to make defensive itemization good vs particular champ/s, but pretty bad vs anything else, so If Swain is fed and you want to neutralize it or fight 1v1 then you can go for that item, you will win, but you are supposed to lose to anything else. This is the idea: strategic choices. Will it work at high elo? I doubt xD
Will this make the skill cap in low elo bigger, games more stompy and more uncontrolable from trying to carry position, coz someone will have 1 brain cell and do the right build and build order? Yes, it will xD
On April 20 2017 09:14 Jek wrote: Rakan is so much fun to play. He's sorta boring early, but once you get a few points into W, E and some random CDR he goes full "fun mode activated!".
Their buffs when on the same team are so stupid. I get they are a couple and all but come on Riot that's just lazy...
Rakan is insanely fun to play but I disagree about the combined power being problematic. I do think they are strong together but for example I was watching MSI with a thresh/jinx combo tearing it up and I was realizing how busted that pair is when they get going since Thresh basically provides everything Jinx doesn't have, even though the inherent synergy we all know with Thresh is Kalista. Similarly, while Rakan is super strong with Xayah, I don't think he actually compliments her *so much* and personally I get more scared of Rakan + Lucian or Rakan + Ashe/Cait then I do Rakan + Xayah in ranked at the moment. Just my opinion. Besides I think a nerf will come through for their synergy, maybe cutting the length of his dash or their damage a bit. I also am just loving the dynamic of oftentimes one team gets Xayah or one team gets Rakan in champ select if they aren't banned out. It's new.
On April 28 2017 22:51 Jek wrote: I've been looking over the PBE and there's a few things I'm a bit iffy about. The new Adaptive Helm + Show Spoiler +
Adaptive Helm Total Cost: 2800g Sells for: 1960g Recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Spectre's Cowl + Rejuvenation Bead + 1000g +300 Health +55 Magic Resist +100% Base Health Regeneration +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Taking magic damage from a spell or effect reduces all subsequent magic damage taken from that spell or effect by 15% for 4 seconds.
in particular and isn't it like... Completely and utterly broken against dot heavy champions? In top wouldn't it be a huge indirect nerf to champions like Rumble. All the individual parts are sweet in the matchups it's good so it's not like there's any awkward buys in it.
Relic Shield line quest added: Quest: Earn 650 gold using this item and upgrade to Targon's Brace. Reward: Shield Battery, a permanent shield that regenerates slowly outside of combat.
if the shield is any kind of good what's to stop the ADC from getting it?
The silly amount of resists AD assassins can get now without really sacrificing damage: -Guardian Angel -Maw -QSS -Edge of Night -Merc/Tabis In games where Cleaver is enough armor pen AD assassins can basically become bruisers. The items have incredible strong passives too.
Yea, IDK why they decided they needed an anti-sustained AP item. That is like...2 characters?
The way it's worded it should work vs any kind of dot or multi hit ability. Off the top of my head: DFT Liandry Sunfire Cape Any magic damage on-hit (Wits' End, Varus, Kayle etc etc) Rumble Singed Cass everything not ult Swain dots+ult Ryze Katarina ult + passives whatever might have been reset
As worded it's far from just being a FU Ryze/Cass/Karthus item. Heck it should work vs Baron's magic damage too.
On April 28 2017 22:51 Jek wrote: I've been looking over the PBE and there's a few things I'm a bit iffy about. The new Adaptive Helm + Show Spoiler +
Adaptive Helm Total Cost: 2800g Sells for: 1960g Recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Spectre's Cowl + Rejuvenation Bead + 1000g +300 Health +55 Magic Resist +100% Base Health Regeneration +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Taking magic damage from a spell or effect reduces all subsequent magic damage taken from that spell or effect by 15% for 4 seconds.
in particular and isn't it like... Completely and utterly broken against dot heavy champions? In top wouldn't it be a huge indirect nerf to champions like Rumble. All the individual parts are sweet in the matchups it's good so it's not like there's any awkward buys in it.
Relic Shield line quest added: Quest: Earn 650 gold using this item and upgrade to Targon's Brace. Reward: Shield Battery, a permanent shield that regenerates slowly outside of combat.
if the shield is any kind of good what's to stop the ADC from getting it?
The silly amount of resists AD assassins can get now without really sacrificing damage: -Guardian Angel -Maw -QSS -Edge of Night -Merc/Tabis In games where Cleaver is enough armor pen AD assassins can basically become bruisers. The items have incredible strong passives too.
Yea, IDK why they decided they needed an anti-sustained AP item. That is like...2 characters?
The way it's worded it should work vs any kind of dot or multi hit ability. Off the top of my head: DFT Liandry Sunfire Cape Any magic damage on-hit (Wits' End, Varus, Kayle etc etc) Rumble Singed Cass everything not ult Swain dots+ult Ryze Katarina ult + passives whatever might have been reset
As worded it's far from just being a FU Ryze/Cass/Karthus item. Heck it should work vs Baron's magic damage too.
Wait, wouldn't this also fuck over Teemo?
Fuck that yordle with a pointy stick.
But yeah, if it works like I think it does, RIP Teemo poison damage.
On April 28 2017 22:51 Jek wrote: I've been looking over the PBE and there's a few things I'm a bit iffy about. The new Adaptive Helm + Show Spoiler +
Adaptive Helm Total Cost: 2800g Sells for: 1960g Recipe: Null Magic Mantle + Spectre's Cowl + Rejuvenation Bead + 1000g +300 Health +55 Magic Resist +100% Base Health Regeneration +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: Taking magic damage from a spell or effect reduces all subsequent magic damage taken from that spell or effect by 15% for 4 seconds.
in particular and isn't it like... Completely and utterly broken against dot heavy champions? In top wouldn't it be a huge indirect nerf to champions like Rumble. All the individual parts are sweet in the matchups it's good so it's not like there's any awkward buys in it.
Relic Shield line quest added: Quest: Earn 650 gold using this item and upgrade to Targon's Brace. Reward: Shield Battery, a permanent shield that regenerates slowly outside of combat.
if the shield is any kind of good what's to stop the ADC from getting it?
The silly amount of resists AD assassins can get now without really sacrificing damage: -Guardian Angel -Maw -QSS -Edge of Night -Merc/Tabis In games where Cleaver is enough armor pen AD assassins can basically become bruisers. The items have incredible strong passives too.
Yea, IDK why they decided they needed an anti-sustained AP item. That is like...2 characters?
The way it's worded it should work vs any kind of dot or multi hit ability. Off the top of my head: DFT Liandry Sunfire Cape Any magic damage on-hit (Wits' End, Varus, Kayle etc etc) Rumble Singed Cass everything not ult Swain dots+ult Ryze Katarina ult + passives whatever might have been reset
As worded it's far from just being a FU Ryze/Cass/Karthus item. Heck it should work vs Baron's magic damage too.
Wait, wouldn't this also fuck over Teemo?
Fuck that yordle with a pointy stick.
But yeah, if it works like I think it does, RIP Teemo poison damage.
I mean, yes, Fuck Teemo, but the way Riot works is they will find some super-heinous way to make him get back to a near-50% win rate so that means some compensation will come
I keep up with the PBE patches on surrender@20 which usually includes Rioter commentary on the changes. In this case Riot specifically said that adaptive helm doesn't screw over DoTs. My guess is that it does screw over soldiers/turrets/plants though. IDK what category something like Anivia ultimate falls into.
On April 20 2017 09:14 Jek wrote: Rakan is so much fun to play. He's sorta boring early, but once you get a few points into W, E and some random CDR he goes full "fun mode activated!".
Their buffs when on the same team are so stupid. I get they are a couple and all but come on Riot that's just lazy...
Rakan is insanely fun to play but I disagree about the combined power being problematic. I do think they are strong together but for example I was watching MSI with a thresh/jinx combo tearing it up and I was realizing how busted that pair is when they get going since Thresh basically provides everything Jinx doesn't have, even though the inherent synergy we all know with Thresh is Kalista. Similarly, while Rakan is super strong with Xayah, I don't think he actually compliments her *so much* and personally I get more scared of Rakan + Lucian or Rakan + Ashe/Cait then I do Rakan + Xayah in ranked at the moment. Just my opinion. Besides I think a nerf will come through for their synergy, maybe cutting the length of his dash or their damage a bit. I also am just loving the dynamic of oftentimes one team gets Xayah or one team gets Rakan in champ select if they aren't banned out. It's new.
It's not so much that I think their "love buff" or whatever is too strong. It's that it is an incredible lazy way to go about it. Thresh/Kalista is a great example of how to do it right, their kit compliment each other incredible well, they dont just randomly get some bigger numbers. I cannot help but think that part of the design process went something like:
Designer 1: We want them to be stronger together! Designer 2: Cool! Any ideas? Designer 1: No. Designer 2: Hmm. We could consider looking into their lore and f a n t a s y to see if we can improve their..... Designer 1: I see. But we must remember s t r a t e g i c d e c i s i o n s and.... <buzzwords and discussion went on for hours> Intern 1: Sup aye jsut attededed sum numberz to deir skelz wen dey r 2gteher lul Designer 1: .... Well that's one way... Designer 2: With that solved lets go grab lunch. Intern 2: Seriously?
Focusing on the champions gameplay, strength or weakness and look for synergies between the champions is many times more interesting than just increasing numbers somewhere in the code. Thresh/Kalista, Thresh/Immobile ADC, Lulu/Hyper carry are great examples.
On April 29 2017 16:03 phyvo wrote: I keep up with the PBE patches on surrender@20 which usually includes Rioter commentary on the changes. In this case Riot specifically said that adaptive helm doesn't screw over DoTs. My guess is that it does screw over soldiers/turrets/plants though. IDK what category something like Anivia ultimate falls into.
Ah. Thank God. they should mention the effect not destroying DoTs in the description ala how they explain Spellvamp with AoE. When I first saw the item I thought it'd basically be a goodbye to a ton of champions in competitive and Spirit Visage for that matter.
I'm so interested in the Relic Shield quest. Would love to see if it's actually strong enough for it to be a legit buy on the ADC, would open up a lot of options in botlane.
Also looking forward to see just how big Zac can be with the +100% health active on Gargoyle Stoneplate, Steraks, Lulu and Iron pot.
I still think Rakan is poorly designed and will continue to have shitty winrates until Riot buffs him into viability for a few patches and then realizes he needs to be Aatroxed. Didn't want to judge Xayah earlier but now I think she's strong and should dominate the rift if (when) Riot decides to nerf botrk.
On April 20 2017 09:14 Jek wrote: Rakan is so much fun to play. He's sorta boring early, but once you get a few points into W, E and some random CDR he goes full "fun mode activated!".
Their buffs when on the same team are so stupid. I get they are a couple and all but come on Riot that's just lazy...
Rakan is insanely fun to play but I disagree about the combined power being problematic. I do think they are strong together but for example I was watching MSI with a thresh/jinx combo tearing it up and I was realizing how busted that pair is when they get going since Thresh basically provides everything Jinx doesn't have, even though the inherent synergy we all know with Thresh is Kalista. Similarly, while Rakan is super strong with Xayah, I don't think he actually compliments her *so much* and personally I get more scared of Rakan + Lucian or Rakan + Ashe/Cait then I do Rakan + Xayah in ranked at the moment. Just my opinion. Besides I think a nerf will come through for their synergy, maybe cutting the length of his dash or their damage a bit. I also am just loving the dynamic of oftentimes one team gets Xayah or one team gets Rakan in champ select if they aren't banned out. It's new.
It's not so much that I think their "love buff" or whatever is too strong. It's that it is an incredible lazy way to go about it. Thresh/Kalista is a great example of how to do it right, their kit compliment each other incredible well, they dont just randomly get some bigger numbers. I cannot help but think that part of the design process went something like:
Designer 1: We want them to be stronger together! Designer 2: Cool! Any ideas? Designer 1: No. Designer 2: Hmm. We could consider looking into their lore and f a n t a s y to see if we can improve their..... Designer 1: I see. But we must remember s t r a t e g i c d e c i s i o n s and.... <buzzwords and discussion went on for hours> Intern 1: Sup aye jsut attededed sum numberz to deir skelz wen dey r 2gteher lul Designer 1: .... Well that's one way... Designer 2: With that solved lets go grab lunch. Intern 2: Seriously?
Focusing on the champions gameplay, strength or weakness and look for synergies between the champions is many times more interesting than just increasing numbers somewhere in the code. Thresh/Kalista, Thresh/Immobile ADC, Lulu/Hyper carry are great examples.
It's amazing how you can make things sound stupid when you get to make up quotes. Here's my interpretation of what you said:
B-b-b-but I don't like what they did wahh wahh wahh because im dum and also smell bad!
See how easy that is?
In seriousness, I get that from one perspective it's inelegant. But a) there don't exist any other champions in the game that have hard-coded synergy. So it is in fact interesting to have one pair of champions be different in that regard, particularly when there are thematic, lore-related, and other game-extraneous reasons for that interaction. Your argument would have more validity if you're playing a game with dozens of such inelegant interactions. And b), the Xayah/Rakan synergy unlocks what a logician would describe as common knowledge synergy. Lucian/Braum is a synergy but it's not a game-defined synergy. There are people learning the game who don't realize this and have yet to learn it for themselves. Whereas Xayah/Rakan is a stronger form of common knowledge synergy: if you know anything about the champion, then you know it has that built-in mechanic with another champion.
I still think Rakan is poorly designed and will continue to have shitty winrates until Riot buffs him into viability for a few patches and then realizes he needs to be Aatroxed. Didn't want to judge Xayah earlier but now I think she's strong and should dominate the rift if (when) Riot decides to nerf botrk.
Hm I feel like Rakan is stronger than Xayah, Xayah doesn't seem great to me so far but the support is consistently irritating.
On April 20 2017 09:14 Jek wrote: Rakan is so much fun to play. He's sorta boring early, but once you get a few points into W, E and some random CDR he goes full "fun mode activated!".
Their buffs when on the same team are so stupid. I get they are a couple and all but come on Riot that's just lazy...
Rakan is insanely fun to play but I disagree about the combined power being problematic. I do think they are strong together but for example I was watching MSI with a thresh/jinx combo tearing it up and I was realizing how busted that pair is when they get going since Thresh basically provides everything Jinx doesn't have, even though the inherent synergy we all know with Thresh is Kalista. Similarly, while Rakan is super strong with Xayah, I don't think he actually compliments her *so much* and personally I get more scared of Rakan + Lucian or Rakan + Ashe/Cait then I do Rakan + Xayah in ranked at the moment. Just my opinion. Besides I think a nerf will come through for their synergy, maybe cutting the length of his dash or their damage a bit. I also am just loving the dynamic of oftentimes one team gets Xayah or one team gets Rakan in champ select if they aren't banned out. It's new.
It's not so much that I think their "love buff" or whatever is too strong. It's that it is an incredible lazy way to go about it. Thresh/Kalista is a great example of how to do it right, their kit compliment each other incredible well, they dont just randomly get some bigger numbers. I cannot help but think that part of the design process went something like:
Designer 1: We want them to be stronger together! Designer 2: Cool! Any ideas? Designer 1: No. Designer 2: Hmm. We could consider looking into their lore and f a n t a s y to see if we can improve their..... Designer 1: I see. But we must remember s t r a t e g i c d e c i s i o n s and.... <buzzwords and discussion went on for hours> Intern 1: Sup aye jsut attededed sum numberz to deir skelz wen dey r 2gteher lul Designer 1: .... Well that's one way... Designer 2: With that solved lets go grab lunch. Intern 2: Seriously?
Focusing on the champions gameplay, strength or weakness and look for synergies between the champions is many times more interesting than just increasing numbers somewhere in the code. Thresh/Kalista, Thresh/Immobile ADC, Lulu/Hyper carry are great examples.
It's amazing how you can make things sound stupid when you get to make up quotes. Here's my interpretation of what you said:
B-b-b-but I don't like what they did wahh wahh wahh because im dum and also smell bad!
See how easy that is?
In seriousness, I get that from one perspective it's inelegant. But a) there don't exist any other champions in the game that have hard-coded synergy. So it is in fact interesting to have one pair of champions be different in that regard, particularly when there are thematic, lore-related, and other game-extraneous reasons for that interaction. Your argument would have more validity if you're playing a game with dozens of such inelegant interactions. And b), the Xayah/Rakan synergy unlocks what a logician would describe as common knowledge synergy. Lucian/Braum is a synergy but it's not a game-defined synergy. There are people learning the game who don't realize this and have yet to learn it for themselves. Whereas Xayah/Rakan is a stronger form of common knowledge synergy: if you know anything about the champion, then you know it has that built-in mechanic with another champion.
The real funny part is that Xayah/Rakan have literally 0 synergy kit wise.
Xayah is just stupid. Isn't op but her e damage is incredibly difficult to guess right. They need to make it scale less with multiple feathers and compensate somewhere else considering how fucking easy it is to land 3.
On April 20 2017 09:14 Jek wrote: Rakan is so much fun to play. He's sorta boring early, but once you get a few points into W, E and some random CDR he goes full "fun mode activated!".
Their buffs when on the same team are so stupid. I get they are a couple and all but come on Riot that's just lazy...
Rakan is insanely fun to play but I disagree about the combined power being problematic. I do think they are strong together but for example I was watching MSI with a thresh/jinx combo tearing it up and I was realizing how busted that pair is when they get going since Thresh basically provides everything Jinx doesn't have, even though the inherent synergy we all know with Thresh is Kalista. Similarly, while Rakan is super strong with Xayah, I don't think he actually compliments her *so much* and personally I get more scared of Rakan + Lucian or Rakan + Ashe/Cait then I do Rakan + Xayah in ranked at the moment. Just my opinion. Besides I think a nerf will come through for their synergy, maybe cutting the length of his dash or their damage a bit. I also am just loving the dynamic of oftentimes one team gets Xayah or one team gets Rakan in champ select if they aren't banned out. It's new.
It's not so much that I think their "love buff" or whatever is too strong. It's that it is an incredible lazy way to go about it. Thresh/Kalista is a great example of how to do it right, their kit compliment each other incredible well, they dont just randomly get some bigger numbers. I cannot help but think that part of the design process went something like:
Designer 1: We want them to be stronger together! Designer 2: Cool! Any ideas? Designer 1: No. Designer 2: Hmm. We could consider looking into their lore and f a n t a s y to see if we can improve their..... Designer 1: I see. But we must remember s t r a t e g i c d e c i s i o n s and.... <buzzwords and discussion went on for hours> Intern 1: Sup aye jsut attededed sum numberz to deir skelz wen dey r 2gteher lul Designer 1: .... Well that's one way... Designer 2: With that solved lets go grab lunch. Intern 2: Seriously?
Focusing on the champions gameplay, strength or weakness and look for synergies between the champions is many times more interesting than just increasing numbers somewhere in the code. Thresh/Kalista, Thresh/Immobile ADC, Lulu/Hyper carry are great examples.
It's amazing how you can make things sound stupid when you get to make up quotes. Here's my interpretation of what you said:
B-b-b-but I don't like what they did wahh wahh wahh because im dum and also smell bad!
See how easy that is?
In seriousness, I get that from one perspective it's inelegant. But a) there don't exist any other champions in the game that have hard-coded synergy. So it is in fact interesting to have one pair of champions be different in that regard, particularly when there are thematic, lore-related, and other game-extraneous reasons for that interaction. Your argument would have more validity if you're playing a game with dozens of such inelegant interactions. And b), the Xayah/Rakan synergy unlocks what a logician would describe as common knowledge synergy. Lucian/Braum is a synergy but it's not a game-defined synergy. There are people learning the game who don't realize this and have yet to learn it for themselves. Whereas Xayah/Rakan is a stronger form of common knowledge synergy: if you know anything about the champion, then you know it has that built-in mechanic with another champion.
Since League had no such lazy design before is exactly why just randomly having bigger numbers is inelegant design. Their timed recall is interesting, their cute emotes and VA when together is honestly all they would need to solidify them as lovers from a lore-wise perspective.
Aside from being lazy design it adds a potential hard issue with balancing the champions there's no reason to force upon youself. If they are strong enough to pick without the other they are likely too strong together, if they are not strong enough to pick without the other they are likely underpowered. In which case there's only 3 options for the pair to be balanced: a) Just accept they are weak without the other. b) Their "pair buff" has to be nerfed. c) One of them has to be weak on it's own to balance them when together. - Forcing a potential balance issue for no reason other than flair is just silly. Their ability to chain their CC is good design, his ability to easily help her strong backwards kiting is good design.
I personally dont believe hard-coded synergy is helpful for new players in any long-term situation. Combat situations in the game (before the pair) has been all about indirect champion synergies (or lack of) and something you need to learn if you want to understand the game. Discovering synergies is part of the learning process of any game and a positive experience when you stumble across something "new", realizing Yasuo is strong(er) if you have something that can easily trigger his ult is more satisfying than just having higher numbers because you just so happen to have one specific champion on your team.
I totally get why some (probably most) might consider it an interesting take on champion interaction, it is after all unique to them. I just find it's not worth to break the design space up until now and introduce potential balance issues for no reason other than flair.
That being said I must concede that their recall interaction is cool. It's an active choice that can be very strong given the right situations, "we might get ganked soonish so I'll start recall channels whenever I can get away with it" or just for the few seconds you can shave off when Xayah is clearing a wave for a back. Rakan having a shield from his passive makes this even cooler since you have to break it before you can interupt the recall with just damage.
I've always been a firm believer of a strict Saint-Exupery design philosophy in which the unnecessary hard-coded synergy of Rakan/Xayah is bad design and shouldn't exist. Dont get me started on Riven...
On May 01 2017 03:09 Fildun wrote: Rakan seems really good, both his knockup and ult are strong and the jump is always useful, so I don't understand why he has such a low winrate.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly because of a lot of non support mains are playing him since he's so new. He has some absolutely horrible match ups too.
On May 01 2017 03:09 Fildun wrote: Rakan seems really good, both his knockup and ult are strong and the jump is always useful, so I don't understand why he has such a low winrate.
Probably because he isn't the most defensively itemized champ in the world and gets the most out of his kit by being in fights. People are still learning how to walk back their aggression on him, would be my guess.
On May 01 2017 03:09 Fildun wrote: Rakan seems really good, both his knockup and ult are strong and the jump is always useful, so I don't understand why he has such a low winrate.
Because you don't just faceroll on him like most champs. Gotta coordinate with team and his lane is very weak. Also people are bad and go coin. Just gotta learn to last hit and go relic.
[QUOTE]On May 01 2017 02:35 Jek and others wrote a lot of shit about Xayah synergy with Rakan:
I agree with both aspects of the arguments I've seen here. This is what I think:
Xayah + Rakan innate kit synergy isn't really there, so they compensated by adding numbers. Not the biggest fan, but if it ends up *broken*, it'll get nerfed a bit, and champ-select dynamics will keep it from being ubiquitous. I don't think Xayah is a better pick than Lucian by any means for example right now. My favorite part of the game design is the recall synergy and the extended dash since it allows for playmaking in one sense and creates a macro benefit that is hard to quantify but actually very valuable. Especially if it isn't a duo Xayah-Rakan, being able to link up on a recall and come back to lane at the same time is something I don't see anywhere near as much in the lower elo where the majority of games are played.
At the higher level it lets them tag into the recall after making some play or warding at the last possible second. I agree the numbers thing is a little stupid but I think it's a way for them to sort of brute force a synergy between them and actually have them be coordinated to be played on the same team. Like as good as Thresh Kalista are together for their synergy, how often do we see them these days? Even when both are actually in pretty good states these days! Maybe without those number boosts Rakan legitimately is just not an ideal supp for Xayah. That would be a flaw in their design team I suppose but I'm just trying to play devil's advocate since I see merit in the opinions being addressed on both sides in this thread
EPT
