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On April 13 2016 08:23 nafta wrote:
If you just get a feel you are always gonna focus on the guy doing well early game but he might be a monkey getting lucky. That is why if you wanna be a tryhard looking at everyone's accounts before game starts increases your chances of winning. Gotta focus on the good players and ignore everyone else.
This is support 101. When your ad is a bonobo you just leave him to feed and go with your jungler/mid and hope the pleb doesn't ragequit. Sometimes you can just try to keep the feeding to a minimum and it is the correct play but that is rare.
Nah, i think its a lot more champion and game specific than that. I don't think there is a lot of correlation between past and future success in league. And i don't think that leaving a bonobo AD to fend for himself is always the best option(if the enemy team is smart they will feed on him then 4v5 you elsewhere on the map). In fact the weaker my AD in raw skills the more i feel the need to be there with him to save his butt*
The second hardest thing to do in league is to determine how to attack the enemy team**. But in general for champions that can peel and can dive you've got a question about who is ahead. If your AD is ahead, you peel for your AD. If their AD is ahead you kill their AD. For mages the decision is more about who you kill. If your AD is ahead you kill their mage or their dive and you can largely ignore their AD. If their AD is ahead you kill their AD/Support/Mage.
*otoh i play a lot of hard peel supports like Karma and she can really get your AD out of the woods in ways that other supports can't as easily do so saving them is a more reasonable proposition.
*The hardest is to get everyone on your team to agree and execute the strategy with only text to communicate
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Skill is significantly more important than champion choice. If you honestly think that match history doesn't matter I don't even know what to say. I said you should look at it not take it as the word of god.
Sitting on your ass and hoping your team carries isn't how you become a good player or how you win consistently. If you are a lucky faggot sure go ahead but it doesn't work like that for the rest of us.
When your ad is bad you roam to get others ahead so you don't get fucked the 5v5 comes. Ad is useless compared to other roles pre 3/4 items anyway so it's fine if yours gets fucked but you can get your team ahead.
User was warned for this post
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If your ADC is useless you being in the lane with them won't help past ~10 mins. You'll leech xp(bad), probably die along with them if they get engaged on(also bad), and lose map control(very bad) because their ADC can probably 1v2 the lane while support roams and gets vision/pressures lanes.
Buy a pink, put it down somewhere defensive to protect your ADC, and just make sure you maintain map control.
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On April 13 2016 06:21 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 06:19 JimmiC wrote:On April 13 2016 05:58 Gahlo wrote:
Garen is a juggernaut. So is your momma! But for real, throwing out a random riot approved term does not really add to the discussion. And mixed within the bickering was some interesting points. I think categorizing into groups is fine as long as you understand that they may have different play styles and be along a spectrum within the categories. I appreciate when people discuss how each should be played right or wrong it makes me think how I play them and if I should be doing things differently. Edit OMG NINJA's So hard =-( yep and I had to confidence to assume that the good man himself was joking in the first place I think bruiser/tank distinction is fine, you can go as small as you want but I think it becomes unproductive past that. ADC, Mage, Bruiser, Tank, Support, and Assassin at the main roles I'd say you have a lot of people fading into certain hybrids etc but I think the 3 front line roles 3 back line roles and they are all distinct so it covers broadly all roles quite well.
It was a mix of both, actually. While part of my loves occasionally using Riot Approved terms to rustle some jimmies(oh how much fun Marksman/men is) it has a point.
"Tank" is primarily a term brought over from mmo/tabletop games. In said genres, tanks are also known to control space around them, dissuade enemies from attacking anybody but the tank, to downright force them to.
"Bruiser" came about for characters that resemble a tank durability wise but weren't looking to be the one to take the beating, instead being able to do so to the point where they can return the favor and then some. They don't perform the same task in a fight.
The problem with that is that any "AD" melee champion that wasn't deemed a "melee ADC" was called a bruiser... but their play style didn't match that all the time. You could call them "Fighters" to use a Riot approved term, but that didn't work well because that's a bigger rectangle that already included bruisers and melee ADC.
That is why I liked the term "juggernaut" when Riot did the Garen/Darius/Skarner/Morde reworks. It clearly defined them as "durable brick shit houses that give out a beating." type characters. The same way you called Garen a tank that sacrifices CC for damage, except juggernaut fulfills that definition in a single word and I believe it does it better than Bruiser did.
I dunno, just my two cents.
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You're confusing what i mean. Sure current MMR is a good estimate of future MMR. But well, current MMR matched them with you, so whether or not they won the last game or lost the last game, or carried, or didn't, doesn't really matter.
There will be a few exceptions (Smurfs and boosted, mainly) But most of the time that isn't what is happening when you look at someones match history. If you're at your proper MMR you're still going to have streaks one way or the other and its not going to make a lick of difference to your skill (indeed there is an anticorrelative effect there because winning more means harder games which decreases win probability for a fixed skill level).
On April 13 2016 10:49 nafta wrote:
Skill is significantly more important than champion choice. If you honestly think that match history doesn't matter I don't even know what to say. I said you should look at it not take it as the word of god.
Sitting on your ass and hoping your team carries isn't how you become a good player or how you win consistently. If you are a lucky faggot sure go ahead but it doesn't work like that for the rest of us.
When your ad is bad you roam to get others ahead so you don't get fucked the 5v5 comes. Ad is useless compared to other roles pre 3/4 items anyway so it's fine if yours gets fucked but you can get your team ahead.
If your AD is far behind, sure. Or if your presence does nothing. But not if they're "bad". All you're doing is ensuring that one member of your team is behind.
But otherwise the only thing that actually predicts skill is MMR and almost certainly they have roughly the same MMR as everyone else on your team
edit: An example. In the past 7 days i am now 13 and 4 when supporting. 3 and 1 on Soraka, 10 and 3 on Karma. Should someone look at my games and say "you know what i am really going to make sure to snowball that Karma?" or "oh i know Karma is great so i am going to go super ham when she is around because she can save me/enable everything?" I don't think that is a winning proposition. Ed: It also breaks down once more than one person start doing it.
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So you would trust a guy who has 5 games on ad this season and mains jungle over the guy with 500 riven games? 10/10 would logic again ( ok maybe riven isn't the best example but still )
There are tons of people who are dogshit and are at a certain mmr and others who are significantly better than them. This is a system that rates you individually based on team performance. Let's be real it can't be accurate.
Especially now with dynamic q you simply can't assume people are even close in skill level.
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When the discussion is *literally* about how to climb in soloq most effectively, you have to at least give some credit to the opinions of people who've actually managed to climb the ladder
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Well after half a year of not playing and likely decaying down to bronzies, I've been doing my placements and after 4 matches with Soraka I'm 4-0 in those with 38.0 KDA.
It's honestly not made a difference whether we lost bot or whether the ADC was terrible, you can always carry teamfights. Then again, I guess the sample size is small but this is the first time I've tried post patch Soraka.
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On April 13 2016 13:37 Goumindong wrote:
When your ad is bad you roam to get others ahead so you don't get fucked the 5v5 comes. Ad is useless compared to other roles pre 3/4 items anyway so it's fine if yours gets fucked but you can get your team ahead.
If your AD is far behind, sure. Or if your presence does nothing. But not if they're "bad". All you're doing is ensuring that one member of your team is behind.
If your adc is bad you're not going to get anything done in the lane other than getting a chuckle or grey hair watching him derp around. Besides helping the rest of your team to get ahead by leaving him to start roaming and invading with your jungler you force the enemy support to match you which leaves your adc in a 1v1 situation and it's pretty hard to get dived by just an adc alone - if he can their bot is so flipping far ahead they'd just get double kill if you did stay.
Just like some people are uncarriable some people are unsupportable. Which honestly is one of the most important thing you have to learn spotting as a support main.
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Just tell him you are going to roam and he should stay safe
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On April 14 2016 04:31 DiracMonopole wrote:
Just tell him you are going to roam and he should stay safe
you still do your best to protect him, put down a pink and ward the jungle so nobody can sneak up on them. Past 10-15 it's more important for you to control vision than to babysit an ADC while he farms creeps anyways.
Telling them is one thing, but you still need to create space for them to farm somewhat safely. It's up to them to not engage anybody who walks into the lane, but you don't abandon them with nothing unless they're bots.
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I find Voli to be pretty garbage, cant engage unless other team is retarded. His passive doesnt heal fast enough in fights so you just die.
I think Kayle is in a good spot, she can dominate a lane in the current meta and just does insane damage late, not many can split push vs her.
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shen is really really dull now and maybe even more boring to play than before rework, but I think he's pretty good right now top.
I think Kayle's really strong and the entire world dodged a bullet when kfo decided not to spam it in echo fox games. if she gets ahead she starts instagibbing people with the current rageblade and so on.
I have a theory that Kayle's kit is mostly unchanged because riot uses it as a measuring stick to determine how badly they've fucked up with an on-hit item at any given time.
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On April 14 2016 09:59 JimmiC wrote:
What's people's not quite meta power picks?
Mine would be voli top. With so much tp and less ignite he stronger than ever.
Vel'Koz, but I guess that's moot seeing as how he is getting some slight changes.
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On April 14 2016 16:14 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 09:59 JimmiC wrote:
What's people's not quite meta power picks?
Mine would be voli top. With so much tp and less ignite he stronger than ever. Vel'Koz, but I guess that's moot seeing as how he is getting some slight changes.
wouldn't say velkoz is completely out of the meta. He's been picked every so often by teams here and there.
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I have a theory that Kayle's kit is mostly unchanged because riot uses it as a measuring stick to determine how badly they've fucked up with an on-hit item at any given time.
I like that thought, although I feel at this point Kog is the better on hit item champion, he literally fills the same role as Kayle but has longer range, more DPS but no OP ult.
I find Voli to be pretty garbage, cant engage unless other team is retarded. His passive doesnt heal fast enough in fights so you just die.
Voli is super snowbally though, if you know the champion well and the opponent doesn't and get an early kill, it's pretty game over top for most champions. I've also seen Voli snowball through the jungle. Think you underestimate the power of his passive, it isn't going to stop him from being blown up early in a gank, but it contributes to the snowball because he can just face tank turrets at lv 6 already if he gets early items.
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EPT
