EPT[Patch 6.7] Almost Outrageous General Discussion - Page 14
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
| ||
|
Lost My Will To Live
Botswana601 Posts
1v1 me bro is not how we handle things here... | ||
|
VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On April 13 2016 01:40 cLutZ wrote: Uhhg. This again. I remember when the Olaf pretty much. Doesn't stop people like kongoline thinking they are right though. | ||
|
VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On April 13 2016 01:33 kongoline wrote: haha can u be even bigger and more pathetic loser, cutting the quote once again when 4 posts up u can read full thing sure im gonna play olaf tho IGN then? ill beat you at your own game. Olaf is a hardcounter to nasus and ill still win to prove a point. Funny how you don't want to play irelia now though lol, guess you realized spouting nonsense can come back to bite you. | ||
|
Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 11 2016 09:14 zulu_nation8 wrote: dynamic queue is awful, tried to queue up shitfaced but logged out cuz it was too much work. I like it but I also wasn't really playing the game anymore until it came out so I guess my view on it is a bit different. | ||
|
kongoline
6318 Posts
On April 13 2016 02:10 VayneAuthority wrote: IGN then? ill beat you at your own game. Olaf is a hardcounter to nasus and ill still win to prove a point. Funny how you don't want to play irelia now though lol, guess you realized spouting nonsense can come back to bite you. are u going through mental breakdown or something ? why do you keep bringing up 1 farm lane from 20+ possible matchups with ur arbitrary list based on some imaginary dueling strength? nasus is infinite scaler he eventually beats every melee does it make him the only bruiser in game? why champions like scarner,udyr are on your elite bruiser list and irelia, olaf arent? maybe because you pulled it out of your ass LOL to the 2nd part why would i waste my time with some mad monkey who tries to save face by playing irrelevant to discussion in most ridiculous 1v1 dick contest ever, i already know how this matchup goes if u need a description read SirhcEz guide http://www.lolking.net/guides/370931#, now get lost kid User was temp banned for this post. | ||
|
Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Also, Nasus is my one true love | ||
|
SHr3DD3r
Pakistan2137 Posts
On April 13 2016 03:46 kongoline wrote: are u going through mental breakdown or something ? why do you keep bringing up 1 farm lane from 20+ possible matchups with ur arbitrary list based on some imaginary dueling strength? nasus is infinite scaler he eventually beats every melee does it make him the only bruiser in game? why champions like scarner,udyr are on your elite bruiser list and irelia, olaf arent? maybe because you pulled it out of your ass LOL to the 2nd part why would i waste my time with some mad monkey who tries to save face by playing irrelevant to discussion in most ridiculous 1v1 dick contest ever, i already know how this matchup goes if u need a description read SirhcEz guide http://www.lolking.net/guides/370931#, now get lost kid I actually agree with VayneAuthority on his opinion on Irelia/Olaf, and maybe Jax to a certain extent (especially if you play him with fervor/rageblade/gunblade build), where these 3 are 'bruisers' but are generally played as semi-assassins to be used to their full potential. No need to bicker like reddit/twitch chat. | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On April 13 2016 01:40 cLutZ wrote: Uhhg. This again. I remember when the Olaf Yes, the reason why is a little subtle though. You aren't that tanky as olaf and you also rely on hard diving to kill any ranged. (Meaning if you get poked down to 40% you're kinda useless unless already in melee range while say maokai or something can CC and help insta kill someone) You do add a lot of damage to tanks, but tanks are only getting in range of you if you are trying to achieve something like CCing your ADC at which point you can't help to peel and you should have peeled by just diving in. It's a little more complex than that but it's easy to see why people might misunderstand. On April 13 2016 04:59 SHr3DD3r wrote: I actually agree with VayneAuthority on his opinion on Irelia/Olaf, and maybe Jax to a certain extent (especially if you play him with fervor/rageblade/gunblade build), where these 3 are 'bruisers' but are generally played as semi-assassins to be used to their full potential. No need to bicker like reddit/twitch chat. The argument is made difficult by the fact that the more you group these champions, the more of a wide range they cover that making generalising statements is difficult. When Irelia's CDs are down she has little more than auto attacks. The fact that she has solid CC and 5 seconds of good sustained damage, as well as natural CC reduction and good self healing make her seem a lot like a bruiser, but when you use full combo on someone you feel more like an assassin with CDs down. Olaf lacks any kind of hard cc, as well as no hard engage or good tankiness, this means that he can't be useful unless he's reasonably healthy or in melee range of someone he can quickly kill. If you engage on a tank you'll lose valuable HP which means although that tank can be useful say in a 2v2 or 3v3 ad+support+tank, you can use the cc to snipe the adc or cc the olaf and run away while olaf can't coordinate at all. You also take more damage than the tank because of less tank items. Jax with a lot of damage items is squishy, the reason he has to dive is that he'll die in 2 seconds to focus fire, I wouldn't say he's not a bruiser, jax with stacked passive can just destroy a lot of people even if he's pretty low hp, he can easily QE onto some adc at the end of a fight and finish from low hp the way say olaf can't. I'd say he's definitely closer to the archetypical bruiser. On April 13 2016 00:05 kongoline wrote: trundle is the exception hes dedicated tank buster and i would argue he beats all melee in in general not only tanks (i think his numbers are overtuned right now), both irelia and olaf are excellent duelist and completely dump on nasus,jax,ww for majority of the game (u mention bortk+ devouer ww as great duelis im sure anyone with those items is great duelist and can outduel any tank in the game lol) i remember game tsm vs clg where zion "counter picked" dyrus mao with nasus and was useless entire game, even at 6items and 600+ stacks dyrus was tanky enough to stay at turret for ages and could easily clear waves while being 10x times more useful in team fights, if u think nasus, jax, udyr (lol!) are good at killing tanks because they can 1v1 them in some unrealistic scenario where they stand still and hit them for 3minutes gl winning games focusing enemy malphite as jax or ww in your team fights this post is a fucking mess. I'll try to break it up because it lacks any coherent line of thought. On April 13 2016 00:05 kongoline wrote: trundle is the exception hes dedicated tank buster and i would argue he beats all melee in in general not only tanks (i think his numbers are overtuned right now Trundles ult makes him good against tanks, but more specifically makes his whole team good against them. He doesn't actually beat all melees, if you buy a QSS he loses a lot of strength. Trundle is like a support/bruiser hybrid. He has his support qualitifes (pillar, R, R is good against tanks but pillar is good against anyone who can't jump out, Q ad steal+slow). He also has bruiser qualitifes (W+Q+R self tankiness+passive healing). He would be a weak bruiser and a weak support, but combined qualities he's hella strong The reason trundle doesn't have to attempt to bypass tanks is purely because of his support qualities. This mean's disagreeing slightly with you but also a little with VA because I would say he's a bad example to use because he's a heavy team debuffer. On April 13 2016 00:05 kongoline wrote:both irelia and olaf are excellent duelist and completely dump on nasus,jax,ww for majority of the game (u mention bortk+ devouer ww as great duelis im sure anyone with those items is great duelist and can outduel any tank in the game lol) I played almost exclusively irelia top recently so I can fairly confidently say you're not correct about the outcomes of those matchups unless you snowball them. I can't say for sure about olaf one's but olafvnasus is bad for olaf if he doesn't snowblal. That's a side note however, tryndamere and master yi are great duelists it doesn't mean they are great bruisers. On April 13 2016 00:05 kongoline wrote: i remember game tsm vs clg where zion "counter picked" dyrus mao with nasus and was useless entire game, even at 6items and 600+ stacks dyrus was tanky enough to stay at turret for ages and could easily clear waves while being 10x times more useful in team fights, Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Nasus has notoriously low mobility and hard CC and thusly is weak when he can be poked/peeled/kited. On April 13 2016 00:05 kongoline wrote: if u think nasus, jax, udyr (lol!) are good at killing tanks because they can 1v1 them in some unrealistic scenario where they stand still and hit them for 3minutes gl winning games focusing enemy malphite as jax or ww in your team fights They aren't "good at killing tanks", but they are "good against tanks". Meaning, tanks alone can't do anything against them, they'll shield/heal the damage out and have short enough CD's that they didn't miss any kind of window to act. If the ADC somehow dies then that bruiser can dominate the teamfight whatever the enemy maokai and leona want. If for example you kill the enemy ADC and you're playing udyr but the enemies have a fiora or jax or something, you can't dominate the fight because they can still kill you if your team isn't winning the teamfight overall. Nobody is focusing tanks in teamfights, it's a question of how much you can ignore the what the enemy tank can actually do to you. You're just watching the enemy carries and what they can do if you get CC'd. If Irelia of olaf get CC'd and lose their HP, they fairly fucked, so they tend to stay a little back until they go in hard. | ||
|
KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
| ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On April 13 2016 05:40 KissBlade wrote: I think that's why these discussions are banned lol. I mean you can call bruisers who need to dive the back line assassins but then putting Olaf in the same category as zed feels awkward. Also where would you put Garen? Isn't he normally diving too? These discussions are difficult, because they mix opinions and practical experience with theory and facts and it's a huge muddle. It is however, in my opinion, very valuable for trying to come to an understanding of the game and especially in regards to how you should teamfight effectively with a given champion. Garen is a tank. He replaces CC with "I'll just fucking kill you if you come near me" He has long CD's and high tankiness with no sustained damage. He fits the tank role quite well but he doesn't rely on a coordinated effort. The latest changes have made him more bruisery because of the better lategame damage scaling but overall he's still in my books a tank. Olaf is like a 75% bruiser 25% assassin. He relies a bit too much on diving with his ult but these kind of distinctions are getting slightly silly. | ||
|
Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
| ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On April 13 2016 05:58 Gahlo wrote: Garen is a juggernaut. I would also perhaps suggest that your mother is a juggernaught mate | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On April 13 2016 06:19 JimmiC wrote: So is your momma! But for real, throwing out a random riot approved term does not really add to the discussion. And mixed within the bickering was some interesting points. I think categorizing into groups is fine as long as you understand that they may have different play styles and be along a spectrum within the categories. I appreciate when people discuss how each should be played right or wrong it makes me think how I play them and if I should be doing things differently. Edit OMG NINJA's So hard =-( yep and I had to confidence to assume that the good man himself was joking in the first place I think bruiser/tank distinction is fine, you can go as small as you want but I think it becomes unproductive past that. ADC, Mage, Bruiser, Tank, Support, and Assassin at the main roles I'd say you have a lot of people fading into certain hybrids etc but I think the 3 front line roles 3 back line roles and they are all distinct so it covers broadly all roles quite well. | ||
|
Alaric
France45622 Posts
| ||
|
nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On April 13 2016 06:27 Alaric wrote: What do you put under support then, though? Since you associated Trundle with bruiser and support, I assume you'd put Leona as a tank and a support for example, but then how do you make the distinction between her and Sona? If only there was a name for something that uses spells. + Show Spoiler + mage support | ||
|
kongoline
6318 Posts
On April 13 2016 05:47 Slayer91 wrote: These discussions are difficult, because they mix opinions and practical experience with theory and facts and it's a huge muddle. It is however, in my opinion, very valuable for trying to come to an understanding of the game and especially in regards to how you should teamfight effectively with a given champion. Garen is a tank. He replaces CC with "I'll just fucking kill you if you come near me" He has long CD's and high tankiness with no sustained damage. He fits the tank role quite well but he doesn't rely on a coordinated effort. The latest changes have made him more bruisery because of the better lategame damage scaling but overall he's still in my books a tank. Olaf is like a 75% bruiser 25% assassin. He relies a bit too much on diving with his ult but these kind of distinctions are getting slightly silly. do u still call full AD garen a tank? For me items dictate what champion is, everyone who builds 1-3 dedicated damage items rest tank is a bruiser, some champions work better with that build like jax,irelia or nasus but fact they beat renekton late game doesnt mean hes not a bruiser he as much of a bruiser as they are but with different power spike and laning phase. Definition can be blury in some cases between tank and bruiser but things like full AD renekton or irelia are clearly assassins, same with maokai who builds RoA,abyssal,IBG who i consider more of ap bruiser than a tank | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On April 13 2016 06:33 kongoline wrote: do u still call full AD garen a tank? For me items dictate what champion is, everyone who builds 1-3 dedicated damage items rest tank is a bruiser, some champions work better with that build like jax,irelia or nasus but fact they beat renekton late game doesnt mean hes not a bruiser he as much of a bruiser as they are but with different power spike and laning phase. Definition can be blury in some cases between tank and bruiser but things like full AD renekton or irelia are imo assassins now, same with maokai who builds RoA,abyssal,IBG who is more of ap bruiser than a tank in my eyes. full ad garen is a bad player kek if you want to think like that sure. ad garen and full ad irelia are assassins and full tank irelia is a tank the thing is full ad irelia is a shit assassin and full tank irelia is a shit tank let's cut the shit and start assuming builds that fit the champion | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Having these category/groups for certain champions is inane because there is no actual standard or metric and it devolves into a shitfest about semantics. I'd much rather you guys talk about individual champs and certain match ups in lane, their pro/con in team fights etc. Most of these convos are about five or less champs, there's really no need to slap over generalized tags to them. | ||
| ||
