|
|
Honestly I don't really have sympathy for eu/kr orgs not competing but i do get even more salty over the semi region locks directing the money into lesser players pockets.
|
On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : )
That has almost nothing to do with what your original complaint was. Would you rather NA orgs pay players peanuts to compare with the peanuts the rest of the world -China is paying. They're making it a legitimate career option while you basically need food stamps for the same job in EU.
|
On December 26 2015 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:43 Redox wrote:
Well its a nice thing if you have investor money that you can piss away. Some orgs have to actually earn the money they spend though. Which is why all this public comparing of salaries does not make much sense imo. And players have a pretty good idea of what other players earn anyway. True for veterans, not true for rookies.
Idk, maybe players that come new to challenger scene. Usually players that are only close to pro know each other quite well though. I guess in Asia it might be different
I dont think releasing this info is a bad thing per se, but I also think this is mostly about Reddit being curious and not about informing players. And knowing the community they will find a way to use this negatively "lol and this noob earns so much, lol that guy works for peanuts, rofl 20k player just killed 200k player".
|
On December 26 2015 05:54 orzeu wrote:How delusional these people are?
What are they supposed to say? "We hope we don't end up dead last in CS."
That's like standard PR move, of course they have to hype up their team and goals. It's like complaining about McDonalds advertising their food as tasty.
|
Oh, the (semi) region locking thing is dumb as it's inherently anti-player by lessening the threat of bids from abroad.
|
On December 26 2015 06:05 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:43 Redox wrote:
Well its a nice thing if you have investor money that you can piss away. Some orgs have to actually earn the money they spend though. Which is why all this public comparing of salaries does not make much sense imo. And players have a pretty good idea of what other players earn anyway. True for veterans, not true for rookies. Idk, maybe players that come new to challenger scene. Usually players that are only close to pro know each other quite well though. I guess in Asia it might be different https://twitter.com/MarcelFeldkamp/status/680431483056713728I dont think releasing this info is a bad thing per se, but I also think this is mostly about Reddit being curious and not about informing players. And knowing the community they will find away to use this negatively "lol and this noob earns so much, lol that guy works for peanuts, rofl 20k player just killed 200k player".
Making money meme's about players is about par for the course for community flame.
Also, Dexter is talking from his own experiences, where he's played with plenty of veterans. Imagine you're a new kid that's being recruited from Solo Queue, you have 0 interaction with any pro's outside of solo queue, how the hell do you know what is a reasonable asking price for your skillset without any data points?
Not to mention, the power of negotiation comes down from # of interactions. Organizations negotiate 5+ contracts on an annual basis, meanwhile players only negotiate 1 contract on an annual basis. Organizations get 5 times the dataset over players, who only get a singular point of data, every time they negotiate contracts.
On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : )
Pretty bold claim without evidence or proof.
|
On December 26 2015 06:04 bbc23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) That has almost nothing to do with what your original complaint was. Would you rather NA orgs pay players peanuts to compare with the peanuts the rest of the world -China is paying. They're making it a legitimate career option while you basically need food stamps for the same job in EU.
Right we'll just have all the other regions magic their money from investors like NA to pay their players who can't go somewhere else because of region locking.
Food stamps?
|
On December 26 2015 06:12 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:04 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) That has almost nothing to do with what your original complaint was. Would you rather NA orgs pay players peanuts to compare with the peanuts the rest of the world -China is paying. They're making it a legitimate career option while you basically need food stamps for the same job in EU. Right we'll just have all the other regions magic their money from investors like NA to pay their players who can't go somewhere else because of region locking. Food stamps?
I don't know why you are getting all up in arms about this? We knew China's been doing this for the past 2 years... Literally okay for Chinese playboys to waste money, literally the devil when American VC's do it.
|
On December 26 2015 06:17 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:12 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 06:04 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) That has almost nothing to do with what your original complaint was. Would you rather NA orgs pay players peanuts to compare with the peanuts the rest of the world -China is paying. They're making it a legitimate career option while you basically need food stamps for the same job in EU. Right we'll just have all the other regions magic their money from investors like NA to pay their players who can't go somewhere else because of region locking. Food stamps? I don't know why you are getting all up in arms about this? We knew China's been doing this for the past 2 years... Literally okay for Chinese playboys to waste money, literally the devil when American VC's do it.
Except many people didnt like the Chinese spending spree and noone called American VC's anything for spending money (except Shkreli maybe lol).
I think there is little difference in how the American and the Chinese spending is viewed. If anything the Chinese one is seen a little more negatively because of how it affected Korea.
|
United Kingdom50293 Posts
I'm not really bothered about this, but after "most expensive transfer in dig history" I am going to meme so fucking hard about 92K a year goldenglue
|
On December 26 2015 06:05 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:54 orzeu wrote:Than an NA team will kiss the Summoner's Cup within two years. How delusional these people are? What are they supposed to say? "We hope we don't end up dead last in CS." That's like standard PR move, of course they have to hype up their team and goals. It's like complaining about McDonalds advertising their food as tasty.
I think them simply saying 'we will win CS' is enough hyping up
pretty large leap to go from that -> NA will win worlds within 2 years
|
On December 26 2015 06:08 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:05 Redox wrote:On December 26 2015 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:43 Redox wrote:
Well its a nice thing if you have investor money that you can piss away. Some orgs have to actually earn the money they spend though. Which is why all this public comparing of salaries does not make much sense imo. And players have a pretty good idea of what other players earn anyway. True for veterans, not true for rookies. Idk, maybe players that come new to challenger scene. Usually players that are only close to pro know each other quite well though. I guess in Asia it might be different https://twitter.com/MarcelFeldkamp/status/680431483056713728I dont think releasing this info is a bad thing per se, but I also think this is mostly about Reddit being curious and not about informing players. And knowing the community they will find away to use this negatively "lol and this noob earns so much, lol that guy works for peanuts, rofl 20k player just killed 200k player". Making money meme's about players is about par for the course for community flame. Also, Dexter is talking from his own experiences, where he's played with plenty of veterans. Imagine you're a new kid that's being recruited from Solo Queue, you have 0 interaction with any pro's outside of solo queue, how the hell do you know what is a reasonable asking price for your skillset without any data points? Not to mention, the power of negotiation comes down from # of interactions. Organizations negotiate 5+ contracts on an annual basis, meanwhile players only negotiate 1 contract on an annual basis. Organizations get 5 times the dataset over players, who only get a singular point of data, every time they negotiate contracts. Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) Pretty bold claim without evidence or proof.
Paying goldenglue 92k is definition of reasonability.
|
On December 26 2015 06:32 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:08 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 06:05 Redox wrote:On December 26 2015 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:43 Redox wrote:
Well its a nice thing if you have investor money that you can piss away. Some orgs have to actually earn the money they spend though. Which is why all this public comparing of salaries does not make much sense imo. And players have a pretty good idea of what other players earn anyway. True for veterans, not true for rookies. Idk, maybe players that come new to challenger scene. Usually players that are only close to pro know each other quite well though. I guess in Asia it might be different https://twitter.com/MarcelFeldkamp/status/680431483056713728I dont think releasing this info is a bad thing per se, but I also think this is mostly about Reddit being curious and not about informing players. And knowing the community they will find away to use this negatively "lol and this noob earns so much, lol that guy works for peanuts, rofl 20k player just killed 200k player". Making money meme's about players is about par for the course for community flame. Also, Dexter is talking from his own experiences, where he's played with plenty of veterans. Imagine you're a new kid that's being recruited from Solo Queue, you have 0 interaction with any pro's outside of solo queue, how the hell do you know what is a reasonable asking price for your skillset without any data points? Not to mention, the power of negotiation comes down from # of interactions. Organizations negotiate 5+ contracts on an annual basis, meanwhile players only negotiate 1 contract on an annual basis. Organizations get 5 times the dataset over players, who only get a singular point of data, every time they negotiate contracts. On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) Pretty bold claim without evidence or proof. Paying goldenglue 92k is definition of reasonability.
It's almost as if people just ignored the base + bonus pay structure, and think the biggest number is the actual salary.
Also, considering the only numbers we know about proplayer salary. (5.5k lmao, and 800k ezhoon offer, and "average Kespa" pay). His base number sounds pretty reasonable for an NACS player
|
Am I the only one that thinks that this is nowhere near unreasonable? In Denmark these wages would be frowned as being nothing special in most jobs, where you put in as much time as pro players do, to be honest, its on the higher side but its not something that will make players rich.
|
On December 26 2015 05:10 Fildun wrote:
Turns out CLG chose Stixxay over Forgiven. Truly counter logic.
Kicking Liftlift for being toxic and then picking up Forgiven instead, who is infamously toxic, would be even more counter logic.
|
On December 26 2015 06:45 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 05:10 Fildun wrote:
Turns out CLG chose Stixxay over Forgiven. Truly counter logic. Kicking Liftlift for being toxic and then picking up Forgiven instead, who is infamously toxic, would be even more counter logic.
What does toxic even mean?
You could half the Ember salaries and they would still be way more than fair.
|
On December 26 2015 06:35 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:32 orzeu wrote:On December 26 2015 06:08 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 06:05 Redox wrote:On December 26 2015 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:43 Redox wrote:
Well its a nice thing if you have investor money that you can piss away. Some orgs have to actually earn the money they spend though. Which is why all this public comparing of salaries does not make much sense imo. And players have a pretty good idea of what other players earn anyway. True for veterans, not true for rookies. Idk, maybe players that come new to challenger scene. Usually players that are only close to pro know each other quite well though. I guess in Asia it might be different https://twitter.com/MarcelFeldkamp/status/680431483056713728I dont think releasing this info is a bad thing per se, but I also think this is mostly about Reddit being curious and not about informing players. And knowing the community they will find away to use this negatively "lol and this noob earns so much, lol that guy works for peanuts, rofl 20k player just killed 200k player". Making money meme's about players is about par for the course for community flame. Also, Dexter is talking from his own experiences, where he's played with plenty of veterans. Imagine you're a new kid that's being recruited from Solo Queue, you have 0 interaction with any pro's outside of solo queue, how the hell do you know what is a reasonable asking price for your skillset without any data points? Not to mention, the power of negotiation comes down from # of interactions. Organizations negotiate 5+ contracts on an annual basis, meanwhile players only negotiate 1 contract on an annual basis. Organizations get 5 times the dataset over players, who only get a singular point of data, every time they negotiate contracts. On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) Pretty bold claim without evidence or proof. Paying goldenglue 92k is definition of reasonability. It's almost as if people just ignored the base + bonus pay structure, and think the biggest number is the actual salary. Also, considering the only numbers we know about proplayer salary. (5.5k lmao, and 800k ezhoon offer, and "average Kespa" pay). His base number sounds pretty reasonable for an NACS player
Goldenglue making same amount of money as Svenskeren is reasonable?
|
On December 26 2015 06:45 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:35 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 06:32 orzeu wrote:On December 26 2015 06:08 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 06:05 Redox wrote:On December 26 2015 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:43 Redox wrote:
Well its a nice thing if you have investor money that you can piss away. Some orgs have to actually earn the money they spend though. Which is why all this public comparing of salaries does not make much sense imo. And players have a pretty good idea of what other players earn anyway. True for veterans, not true for rookies. Idk, maybe players that come new to challenger scene. Usually players that are only close to pro know each other quite well though. I guess in Asia it might be different https://twitter.com/MarcelFeldkamp/status/680431483056713728I dont think releasing this info is a bad thing per se, but I also think this is mostly about Reddit being curious and not about informing players. And knowing the community they will find away to use this negatively "lol and this noob earns so much, lol that guy works for peanuts, rofl 20k player just killed 200k player". Making money meme's about players is about par for the course for community flame. Also, Dexter is talking from his own experiences, where he's played with plenty of veterans. Imagine you're a new kid that's being recruited from Solo Queue, you have 0 interaction with any pro's outside of solo queue, how the hell do you know what is a reasonable asking price for your skillset without any data points? Not to mention, the power of negotiation comes down from # of interactions. Organizations negotiate 5+ contracts on an annual basis, meanwhile players only negotiate 1 contract on an annual basis. Organizations get 5 times the dataset over players, who only get a singular point of data, every time they negotiate contracts. On December 26 2015 05:59 Ansibled wrote:On December 26 2015 05:57 bbc23 wrote:On December 26 2015 05:37 Ansibled wrote:
Pretty disgusting how much money they can make being irrelevant in NA let alone anywhere else, and people call WCS welfare. Why is it disgusting that other regions give their players peanuts. Because these salaries are completely reasonable and sustainable : ) Pretty bold claim without evidence or proof. Paying goldenglue 92k is definition of reasonability. It's almost as if people just ignored the base + bonus pay structure, and think the biggest number is the actual salary. Also, considering the only numbers we know about proplayer salary. (5.5k lmao, and 800k ezhoon offer, and "average Kespa" pay). His base number sounds pretty reasonable for an NACS player Goldenglue making same amount of money as Svenskeren is reasonable?
IIRC, there was 50k signing bonus. Plus exposure from H2K as an LCS team, not to mention he would get to stay in EU (not sure if this is a bosnus or negative to him).
Salary does not = income. People forget, the organization also can leverage their own popularity for the players. Remember Bjergsen pre-TSM, and his stream numbers? They were lucky to hit 5k. The second he joined tsm, his stream numbers perma-stayed at 30+k.
It's a pretty common occurrence in NBA where "lesser" players are paid more than than "better" players, due to a variety of reasons. Some include timing of free agency period, what the team needs vs what roles the player plays. Available player pool, etc etc.
On December 26 2015 06:45 Wita wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks that this is nowhere near unreasonable? In Denmark these wages would be frowned as being nothing special in most jobs, where you put in as much time as pro players do, to be honest, its on the higher side but its not something that will make players rich.
It's not unreasonable if you think about it in terms of skillset vs overall job market, and limited talent pool to draw from.
But it does seem slightly unreasonable considering kEspa report regarding average pay, and what we currently know about salary.
|
On December 26 2015 06:25 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:05 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:54 orzeu wrote:Than an NA team will kiss the Summoner's Cup within two years. How delusional these people are? What are they supposed to say? "We hope we don't end up dead last in CS." That's like standard PR move, of course they have to hype up their team and goals. It's like complaining about McDonalds advertising their food as tasty. I think them simply saying 'we will win CS' is enough hyping up pretty large leap to go from that -> NA will win worlds within 2 years
Done right NA winning worlds in 2 years is not that big a leap, it's a pretty realistic timeline IF you do everything right. I think they're missing a few key parts right now if they want their team to be NA's champion 2 years from now, but 2 years doing everything right is hardly unreasonable.
|
On December 26 2015 06:52 Cyraknoss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 06:25 dsyxelic wrote:On December 26 2015 06:05 wei2coolman wrote:On December 26 2015 05:54 orzeu wrote:Than an NA team will kiss the Summoner's Cup within two years. How delusional these people are? What are they supposed to say? "We hope we don't end up dead last in CS." That's like standard PR move, of course they have to hype up their team and goals. It's like complaining about McDonalds advertising their food as tasty. I think them simply saying 'we will win CS' is enough hyping up pretty large leap to go from that -> NA will win worlds within 2 years Done right NA winning worlds in 2 years is not that big a leap, it's a pretty realistic timeline IF you do everything right. I think they're missing a few key parts right now if they want their team to be NA's champion 2 years from now, but 2 years doing everything right is hardly unreasonable.
If you nuke Korea then you maybe have a chance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
