EPTI might not be high elo but I have played with pretty much all pros and trust me if forgiven gets banned at least half of the eu lcs needs to get banned.
Pro scene rumor mill 2016 Pre-Season - Page 106
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
I might not be high elo but I have played with pretty much all pros and trust me if forgiven gets banned at least half of the eu lcs needs to get banned. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
On December 26 2015 08:12 nafta wrote: Reading about how toxic forgiven is from people who have never played on euw is hilarious to me. When fucking gilius/svenskeren/freddy/etc are allowed to play in lcs and forgiven gets banned you know something is wrong. While you are absolutely right I tried arguing without saying "look at these guys they're even more toxic". I still don't get how freddy managed to be able to play for so long while being AFK in half his ranked games. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
Residents From an anicdotal standpoint i find 10% aram only playerbase to be a low ish estimate | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On December 26 2015 06:45 orzeu wrote: Goldenglue making same amount of money as Svenskeren is reasonable? Sponsor: Make an NA team, I'll give you big money. Team Head: Okay, I just need to fill a few slots with NA or Riot Approved NA players. NA Player: I may not be great internationally, but I suck less than these other guys at my position. You also don't want to get relegated and lose Sponsor's money so you can't bottom feed. Give me more to have a decent NA player. Team Head: Deal. EU Pro: I want come to America for decent pay on my short career. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On December 26 2015 08:34 Slusher wrote: Residents From an anicdotal standpoint i find 10% aram only playerbase to be a low ish estimate ah i thought you meant 3/5 of the old team like the challenger team rules, my bad. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Flame to return to Korea. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
if they can fill out the botlane with fury or ohq... Flame Chaser Coco Ohq/Fury Ignar not bad at all. wonder where piccaboo is going tho, if piccaboo was on this team I'd be a bit more hyped. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote: This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. but esports and lcs is the next big thing so they'll definitely make their money back by paying $100,000 salaries to players who aren't even the best in challenger. Actually the best part is that they didn't even import anyway for that price. Maybe they'll get fans who believe in their NA bullshit? | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On December 26 2015 19:25 Ansibled wrote: but esports and lcs is the next big thing so they'll definitely make their money back by paying $100,000 salaries to players who aren't even the best in challenger. Actually the best part is that they didn't even import anyway for that price. Maybe they'll get fans who believe in their NA bullshit? hey im all for trying to grow NA talent, but it's just not smart to give these players $60k a year when they're not even in LCS. goldenglue/gleeb/lod are basically robbing them lol. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
LPL group draw results Group A: LGD/Snake/QG/WE/M3/EP.A Group B: EDG/iG/VG/OMG/Royal does (NOT) give up/Huya Group A 100% looks like the stronger group | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote: This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. It's only unhealthy if it's unsustainable, and there's little reason to think that right now. $60k a year salaries are peanuts compared to the salaries you see for professional football players, and it's hardly an unreasonable sum to spend protecting your million-dollar LCS spot. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On December 26 2015 22:26 Zato-1 wrote: It's only unhealthy if it's unsustainable, and there's little reason to think that right now. $60k a year salaries are peanuts compared to the salaries you see for professional football players. I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On December 26 2015 22:34 Numy wrote: I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. Because League is still growing. More people play it every year, and both professional events and the most popular streamers have ever-higher viewership numbers. As the viewers themselves grow up and have more disposable income, the advertising value of this audience soars. It's only natural for salaries to grow as well, and I expect them to be higher going into 2017 than they are now going into 2016. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On December 26 2015 22:51 Zato-1 wrote: Because League is still growing. More people play it every year, and both professional events and the most popular streamers have ever-higher viewership numbers. As the viewers themselves grow up and have more disposable income, the advertising value of this audience soars. It's only natural for salaries to grow as well, and I expect them to be higher going into 2017 than they are now going into 2016. At this point it's basic economics and business. As a business grows their revenue grows and thus they can pay more for services to keep this growth. This however is different. It's an investor outside of the scene making a start up company that pays grossly over market value for mediocre employees in a hopes to generate some kind of business. Now they have zero revenue streams currently. This isn't a business already operating that now is doing better since the scene is bigger thus can pay more. It's someone that is using money outside the scene. So this has nothing to do with League growing or popularity at first. The danger comes now when other people get pressured to raise their salaries to these people when they are already operating within their gross margins just because if they don't they can't attract talent anymore. These companies then now are making either less profit or they are in the negative in the hopes that in the future it'll even out. The issue here is even if their business does manage to grow enough to handle the inflated prices the competition will just further increase the prices. We've already seen this kind of investor explosion in football when investors that don't care about wasting money just try one up each other constantly leading to salary/buyout cap as well as other measures. You are talking about salaries naturally growing as a result of League expanding which is an entirely different thing to what is happening. This is people with money from outside of League putting ludicrous amounts of money into league with the hope that it'll eventually get to a point where they making money. If that doesn't work then they just lost a couple of million dollars which is meaningless to them. This has the potential to harm people actually trying to make a business from the ground up. | ||
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orzeu
Poland5205 Posts
On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote: This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. And then we get another WoW scenario when all big orgs agree to not pay players at all. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On December 26 2015 23:01 Numy wrote: At this point it's basic economics and business. As a business grows their revenue grows and thus they can pay more for services to keep this growth. This however is different. It's an investor outside of the scene making a start up company that pays grossly over market value for mediocre employees in a hopes to generate some kind of business. Now they have zero revenue streams currently. This isn't a business already operating that now is doing better since the scene is bigger thus can pay more. It's someone that is using money outside the scene. So this has nothing to do with League growing or popularity at first. The danger comes now when other people get pressured to raise their salaries to these people when they are already operating within their gross margins just because if they don't they can't attract talent anymore. These companies then now are making either less profit or they are in the negative in the hopes that in the future it'll even out. The issue here is even if their business does manage to grow enough to handle the inflated prices the competition will just further increase the prices. We've already seen this kind of investor explosion in football when investors that don't care about wasting money just try one up each other constantly leading to salary/buyout cap as well as other measures. You are talking about salaries naturally growing as a result of League expanding which is an entirely different thing to what is happening. This is people with money from outside of League putting ludicrous amounts of money into league with the hope that it'll eventually get to a point where they making money. If that doesn't work then they just lost a couple of million dollars which is meaningless to them. This has the potential to harm people actually trying to make a business from the ground up. Orgs pay players depending on who they can get. Of course they'd rather pay $100k a year for Bjergsen than $60k a year for Goldenglue, but if Goldenglue's the best they can get and there's other teams who are also trying to pick him up, then Goldenglue's the hot commodity at that point in time, and what you're willing to pay for him will directly tie to how much you think he can help you protect your million-dollar LCS spot compared to the next-best player. Goldenglue just got lucky that he was in the right place at the right time, basically. If you're unconvinced of LoL's long-term viability as a sport, then think of it like a gamble; maybe LoL will grow to be huge in the future, maybe not, and these people are betting that it will. Maybe you prefer to have orgs like dignitas, Coast and compLexity limping around instead of these big newcomers, and that's fine; I see all this as an inevitable part of LoL growing up. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On December 26 2015 22:34 Numy wrote: I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. Any time you try to compare player salary to somebody from TSM and don't taken into account streaming, just stop trying to make a point. Simply being a TSM sponsored streamer gets a fuckton of subs, followers, and donations from twitch. Even moreso when that streamer is also a player. I wouldn't be surprised if Sven will make almost as much money as other LCS junglers salary just from streaming. | ||
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