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The best you can hope for is that Ember crashes within 6 months and everyone gets dissuaded to not follow in their footsteps
I'll leave you in your dream world where Goldenglue is worth $100k for a brand new start up company not even in the LCS while almost everyone actually in the industry is questioning their prices. I prefer people to be around in a few years and not vanish as soon as their investors decide they don't feel like having this tanking investment that isn't showing any signs of ROI in the near future. I guess your kind of idealogy fits league of legends though. It's a whole scene that's propped up by the marketing budget with intangible ROI by a company making obscene amounts of money on a related product. Having a bunch of investors with seemingly no plan for ROI pump obscene amounts of money to over-inflate prices fits rather nicely.
I'd rather see league be a game being played 5-10 years from now but at the current rate it feels like eventually people will get sick of having a big red in their budget and it'll all come crashing down. Hopefully someone does something to make sure that doesn't happen but if it does then it should have the courtesy to not take the rest of gaming down with it like what happened ~10 years ago.
On December 26 2015 23:31 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 22:34 Numy wrote:On December 26 2015 22:26 Zato-1 wrote:On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote:
This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. It's only unhealthy if it's unsustainable, and there's little reason to think that right now. $60k a year salaries are peanuts compared to the salaries you see for professional football players. I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. Any time you try to compare player salary to somebody from TSM and don't taken into account streaming, just stop trying to make a point. Simply being a TSM sponsored streamer gets a fuckton of subs, followers, and donations from twitch. Even moreso when that streamer is also a player. I wouldn't be surprised if Sven will make almost as much money as other LCS junglers salary just from streaming.
So? That's merely falling into the point of TSM having alternate revenue streams to bank on that these new teams don't have at all. So you saying that TSM can pay players below market value because there's money in intangibles for being on TSMs brand? That doesn't make sense as TSM themselves get part of the money generated through this so whether they give a higher fixed and take more or lower fixed and take less it still works out the same for them.
I mean you even highlight me talking about this being a revenue stream for TSM. I don't get what you saying.
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It's all fine, great for the players, but i don't see the added value for the people investing. How I understand it, there are some people heavily investing in the challenger scene, a scene which i thought did not have very much exposure. So they're looking to get to lcs very soon? The riskiness of such a gamble combined with the limited potential profit, makes me feel very sceptical of such moves.
The only thing I want is that these orgs don't 'force' other teams to pay their players unaffordable amounts.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On December 26 2015 18:49 dsyxelic wrote:
interesting super team.
if they can fill out the botlane with fury or ohq...
Flame Chaser Coco Ohq/Fury Ignar
not bad at all.
wonder where piccaboo is going tho, if piccaboo was on this team I'd be a bit more hyped.
Wasn't igNar on KT though.
On December 26 2015 21:11 Fusilero wrote:http://www.thescoreesports.com/lol/news/5447LPL group draw results Group A: LGD/Snake/QG/WE/M3/EP.A Group B: EDG/iG/VG/OMG/Royal does (NOT) give up/Huya Group A 100% looks like the stronger group
OMG almost dodged the "But we can't get lower than top-4 even if we have only one good player" bullet.
WE can legit get top-2 in their group, unless they fuck up every bo3 in cross-group.
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On December 26 2015 23:43 Numy wrote:The best you can hope for is that Ember crashes within 6 months and everyone gets dissuaded to not follow in their footsteps I'll leave you in your dream world where Goldenglue is worth $100k for a brand new start up company not even in the LCS while almost everyone actually in the industry is questioning their prices. I prefer people to be around in a few years and not vanish as soon as their investors decide they don't feel like having this tanking investment that isn't showing any signs of ROI in the near future. I guess your kind of idealogy fits league of legends though. It's a whole scene that's propped up by the marketing budget with intangible ROI by a company making obscene amounts of money on a related product. Having a bunch of investors with seemingly no plan for ROI pump obscene amounts of money to over-inflate prices fits rather nicely. I'd rather see league be a game being played 5-10 years from now but at the current rate it feels like eventually people will get sick of having a big red in their budget and it'll all come crashing down. Hopefully someone does something to make sure that doesn't happen but if it does then it should have the courtesy to not take the rest of gaming down with it like what happened ~10 years ago. Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 23:31 Gahlo wrote:On December 26 2015 22:34 Numy wrote:On December 26 2015 22:26 Zato-1 wrote:On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote:
This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. It's only unhealthy if it's unsustainable, and there's little reason to think that right now. $60k a year salaries are peanuts compared to the salaries you see for professional football players. I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. Any time you try to compare player salary to somebody from TSM and don't taken into account streaming, just stop trying to make a point. Simply being a TSM sponsored streamer gets a fuckton of subs, followers, and donations from twitch. Even moreso when that streamer is also a player. I wouldn't be surprised if Sven will make almost as much money as other LCS junglers salary just from streaming. So? That's merely falling into the point of TSM having alternate revenue streams to bank on that these new teams don't have at all. So you saying that TSM can pay players below market value because there's money in intangibles for being on TSMs brand? That doesn't make sense as TSM themselves get part of the money generated through this so whether they give a higher fixed and take more or lower fixed and take less it still works out the same for them.
Problem is you aren't one of those people who are new to esports to just be optimistic  . It is just gonna crash and burn after a few months or they will get lucky and get to sell their lcs spot and make some cash back.
The only reason they would show their salaries like this is if they want to get players to contact them about joining rather than trying to poach them.
It is honestly very funny how much more advanced people think esports is. The reality isn't what riot is trying to make you think it is boys ^^.
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On December 26 2015 23:43 Yorbon wrote:
It's all fine, great for the players, but i don't see the added value for the people investing. How I understand it, there are some people heavily investing in the challenger scene, a scene which i thought did not have very much exposure. So they're looking to get to lcs very soon? The riskiness of such a gamble combined with the limited potential profit, makes me feel very sceptical of such moves.
The only thing I want is that these orgs don't 'force' other teams to pay their players unaffordable amounts.
Investors have wasted money in esport before and some will do so it in the future. It is not that big of a deal imo.
What is silly though is if people expect teams that dont have investor money and have to actually rely on their income to pay similarly. Especially if we talk about CS or less popular LCS teams. Just not gonna happen.
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On December 27 2015 00:03 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 23:43 Yorbon wrote:
It's all fine, great for the players, but i don't see the added value for the people investing. How I understand it, there are some people heavily investing in the challenger scene, a scene which i thought did not have very much exposure. So they're looking to get to lcs very soon? The riskiness of such a gamble combined with the limited potential profit, makes me feel very sceptical of such moves.
The only thing I want is that these orgs don't 'force' other teams to pay their players unaffordable amounts. Investors have wasted money in esport before and some will do so it in the future. It is not that big of a deal imo. What is silly though is if people expect teams that dont have investor money and have to actually rely on their income to pay similarly. Especially if we talk about CS or less popular LCS teams. Just not gonna happen. I know it's happened before; it's partially the reason why i think it's a bad idea from an investor's perspective. But it's not a very big deal, indeed. At least not until other teams start doing stupid shit because of it, that is.
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On December 26 2015 23:43 Numy wrote:The best you can hope for is that Ember crashes within 6 months and everyone gets dissuaded to not follow in their footsteps I'll leave you in your dream world where Goldenglue is worth $100k for a brand new start up company not even in the LCS while almost everyone actually in the industry is questioning their prices. I prefer people to be around in a few years and not vanish as soon as their investors decide they don't feel like having this tanking investment that isn't showing any signs of ROI in the near future. I guess your kind of idealogy fits league of legends though. It's a whole scene that's propped up by the marketing budget with intangible ROI by a company making obscene amounts of money on a related product. Having a bunch of investors with seemingly no plan for ROI pump obscene amounts of money to over-inflate prices fits rather nicely. I'd rather see league be a game being played 5-10 years from now but at the current rate it feels like eventually people will get sick of having a big red in their budget and it'll all come crashing down. Hopefully someone does something to make sure that doesn't happen but if it does then it should have the courtesy to not take the rest of gaming down with it like what happened ~10 years ago. Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 23:31 Gahlo wrote:On December 26 2015 22:34 Numy wrote:On December 26 2015 22:26 Zato-1 wrote:On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote:
This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. It's only unhealthy if it's unsustainable, and there's little reason to think that right now. $60k a year salaries are peanuts compared to the salaries you see for professional football players. I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. Any time you try to compare player salary to somebody from TSM and don't taken into account streaming, just stop trying to make a point. Simply being a TSM sponsored streamer gets a fuckton of subs, followers, and donations from twitch. Even moreso when that streamer is also a player. I wouldn't be surprised if Sven will make almost as much money as other LCS junglers salary just from streaming. So? That's merely falling into the point of TSM having alternate revenue streams to bank on that these new teams don't have at all. So you saying that TSM can pay players below market value because there's money in intangibles for being on TSMs brand? That doesn't make sense as TSM themselves get part of the money generated through this so whether they give a higher fixed and take more or lower fixed and take less it still works out the same for them. I mean you even highlight me talking about this being a revenue stream for TSM. I don't get what you saying.
Ah, I thought "them" was referring to the org. And yes, TSM can absolutely lowball on salary because of the impact they, the org, have on streaming.
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On December 26 2015 23:43 Numy wrote:The best you can hope for is that Ember crashes within 6 months and everyone gets dissuaded to not follow in their footsteps I'll leave you in your dream world where Goldenglue is worth $100k for a brand new start up company not even in the LCS while almost everyone actually in the industry is questioning their prices. I prefer people to be around in a few years and not vanish as soon as their investors decide they don't feel like having this tanking investment that isn't showing any signs of ROI in the near future. I guess your kind of idealogy fits league of legends though. It's a whole scene that's propped up by the marketing budget with intangible ROI by a company making obscene amounts of money on a related product. Having a bunch of investors with seemingly no plan for ROI pump obscene amounts of money to over-inflate prices fits rather nicely. I'd rather see league be a game being played 5-10 years from now but at the current rate it feels like eventually people will get sick of having a big red in their budget and it'll all come crashing down. Hopefully someone does something to make sure that doesn't happen but if it does then it should have the courtesy to not take the rest of gaming down with it like what happened ~10 years ago. Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 23:31 Gahlo wrote:On December 26 2015 22:34 Numy wrote:On December 26 2015 22:26 Zato-1 wrote:On December 26 2015 18:23 Numy wrote:
This whole Ember Salary thing smells like MYM paying shit tons of cash for War3 players while having zero ROI and going bankrupt shortly thereafter. I knew NA League was getting completely ridiculous but dam I didn't realize how bad it was. All these guys with rich investors that don't give a shit exploding the salaries in an unhealthy way. It's only unhealthy if it's unsustainable, and there's little reason to think that right now. $60k a year salaries are peanuts compared to the salaries you see for professional football players. I didn't realize league of professional football.... Why is there little reason to think it's unsustainable when there's more evidence for that it is unsustainable than sustainable? Where have we even seen it being sustainable? Everyone in the industry says it's crazy and all the teams that have been doing this for years as a business model don't manage to pay that much for mediocre talent, only with huge fan bases and alternate revenue streams do they manage to pay top talent that kind of money. No idea how you say there's little reason to think that. If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit. There's almost no reason to believe the crazy inflated Salaries like Ember are sustainable as well as the crazy amounts LCS slots are being sold for. Any time you try to compare player salary to somebody from TSM and don't taken into account streaming, just stop trying to make a point. Simply being a TSM sponsored streamer gets a fuckton of subs, followers, and donations from twitch. Even moreso when that streamer is also a player. I wouldn't be surprised if Sven will make almost as much money as other LCS junglers salary just from streaming.
So? That's merely falling into the point of TSM having alternate revenue streams to bank on that these new teams don't have at all. So you saying that TSM can pay players below market value because there's money in intangibles for being on TSMs brand? That doesn't make sense as TSM themselves get part of the money generated through this so whether they give a higher fixed and take more or lower fixed and take less it still works out the same for them. I mean you even highlight me talking about this being a revenue stream for TSM. I don't get what you saying.
That's exactly what he's saying, and he would be 100% right.
It's the same thing why people might stay a certain job despite it paying less that competitors, simply because of intangibles. Such as travel distance, secondary benefits, office culture, loyalty, etc.
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Obviously going to Echo Fox along with Froggen.
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I think if any LCS team signs Dexter as a starter, they are making a huge mistake. But then again, NA teams imported Avalon and Narakyle, so who knows.
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Well in the post all star summoning insight, Thorin basically said if the rumors he heard were true Froggen was going to be on a bad team
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On December 27 2015 09:53 Slusher wrote:
Well in the post all star summoning insight, Thorin basically said if the rumors he heard were true Froggen was going to be on a bad team
Couldn't be worse than last split Alliance, could it? lol.
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On December 27 2015 09:10 EsanLOL wrote:
I think if any LCS team signs Dexter as a starter, they are making a huge mistake. But then again, NA teams imported Avalon and Narakyle, so who knows.
wait why? I can't think of many NA resident junglers who are better than him.
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On December 27 2015 09:59 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2015 09:10 EsanLOL wrote:
I think if any LCS team signs Dexter as a starter, they are making a huge mistake. But then again, NA teams imported Avalon and Narakyle, so who knows. wait why? I can't think of many NA resident junglers who are better than him.
Yea being na is quite valuable, just look at goldenglutes
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On December 27 2015 09:59 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2015 09:10 EsanLOL wrote:
I think if any LCS team signs Dexter as a starter, they are making a huge mistake. But then again, NA teams imported Avalon and Narakyle, so who knows. wait why? I can't think of many NA resident junglers who are better than him.
I don't have a lot of confidence in Dexter regaining his form, especially given his attitude toward soloqueue and how much he dislikes playing it. I'd take Dardoch or Hard over Dexter any day. But when it comes to underperforming veteran players, I'm always one to give the new guy the nod.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i dont think the ember salary is that high for a investment driven rush. lol scrubs and all that but they are known quantities with not a lot of na options left on table while teams are getting created left and right. key is these new owners are typically not capable of running any player development so they are overrelying on the known(but bad) quantities
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On December 26 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Reading about how toxic forgiven is from people who have never played on euw is hilarious to me. When fucking gilius/svenskeren/freddy/etc are allowed to play in lcs and forgiven gets banned you know something is wrong.
I might not be high elo but I have played with pretty much all pros and trust me if forgiven gets banned at least half of the eu lcs needs to get banned.
Well Svenskeren was banned at worlds for 3 games, where the penalty was harshened due to his previous warnings.
And I am sure Riot has looked through at much larger sample size than you.
If you want an example look at TSM and Sven. He's not being paid the crazy amounts guys like Ember are being paid but TSM is one of the richer teams with multiple revenue streams that generate them profit.
Sven is definitely paid more than Ember. I expect his base salary to be at least $100k+
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When I see someone wish everyone cancer then rq in 7 out of 8 games in the span of a week or so AND friends have similar experiences I am not gonna believe they actually check/care.
Or how in na prototype black gets to play in chall series while every pro whines on twitter about him.
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EPT
