EPT[Patch 5.13] Tahm Kench General Discussion - Page 8
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On July 09 2015 14:47 Slusher wrote: yea problem is, leveling Q increases the serpents you get, so maxing E to gain waveclear is pretty inefficient until 13. the new passive looks god awful but there is an unlisted ad scaling so that might be it's saving grace if it's not like .1 or something, not being on hit makes it pretty shit, also note that it does not specify target type so when laneing if parrlay is on cd you have to blow it on a minion or lose the cs. ult damage changed to update twice per second instead of once, it is actually buffed if they sit in it full duration, but before that it alternates per wave so it's mostly a wash (before upgrades) so basically, ult super slight buff >> to massive buff after upgrades orange cd down from 18>14 at max rank but, the max heal is nerfed until you reach 1400 missing health, I would call this a nerf but it's arguable for tank builds E seems possily good but likely to be unreliable would have to play it and parrlay is unchanged other than not getting grog damage That's the thing though, your E damage is equal to the damage of the attack used to proc it; you Q a barrel with shiv and your barrels are doing Q damage AoE. Essentially you can Q the whole wave. I also think he'll be a much improved jungler; that E slow is massive, gives gp much much more gank pressure, and he already clears quite well without E's AoE. Up to 3x 80% x 2s slows with no decay? Damn. That's worse than Nasus wither... you get caught with a chilling smite and a barrel slow you're dead 100%. Old gp passive slow wasnt even notable if they had boots of some sort. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On July 09 2015 15:12 cLutZ wrote: Dont disagree, but its not Azir and Kalista exclusively, or even mid/adc. Maokai and Rumble are clearly a tier above in toplane once Ryze nerfs go through; Alistar and Annie are way too valuable bot because they have murdered engage, on the whole; Gragas plus Rek Sai are still the rulers of the jungle, even with Nidalee, Ekko, and Eve being competent picks. Midlane is actually the lane that is most OK because they have Azir, Viktor, Ryze, Ekko, Cassio plus viable niche picks like TF, Varus, Zed, Ori, etc. And while ADC is mostly Kalista/Sivir/Corki I think most the T2 options are close, compared with the other roles. Rumble will be even more pick/ban with the AP itemisation changes. Top and Jungle are in a terrible spot at the moment, and the other lanes are only slightly better. We need to see more top Riven and mid Yi. Hell, I'll take more Kennan support, despite the fact I loathe that champ. Champion diversity in League never feels good. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On July 09 2015 15:29 JazzVortical wrote: Rumble will be even more pick/ban with the AP itemisation changes. Top and Jungle are in a terrible spot at the moment, and the other lanes are only slightly better. We need to see more top Riven and mid Yi. Hell, I'll take more Kennan support, despite the fact I loathe that champ. Champion diversity in League never feels good. I think the big problem is the lack of bans. With a huge pool and 6 bans essentially game boils down to picking the best champs at each niche. While there are still inventive comps, you also cannot get as inventive because you need to ban out the top 5 champs who are in the must pick ban tier. We get 10 bans, 12 bans we see champion diversity skyrocket. Especially if they are interwoven. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 09 2015 15:47 iCanada wrote: I think the big problem is the lack of bans. With a huge pool and 6 bans essentially game boils down to picking the best champs at each niche. While there are still inventive comps, you also cannot get as inventive because you need to ban out the top 5 champs who are in the must pick ban tier. We get 10 bans, 12 bans we see champion diversity skyrocket. Especially if they are interwoven. Its not just bans. Its that anytime a champion has an exploitable part of its powercurve (except some minor Pre-6 issues) its no longer viable. There are almost no champions in league that, assuming equal skill, are 20+ CS ahead or behind the FOTM champions, while also being situationally optimal. Diverse power curves is the key to champion diversity. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On July 09 2015 15:55 cLutZ wrote: Its not just bans. Its that anytime a champion has an exploitable part of its powercurve (except some minor Pre-6 issues) its no longer viable. There are almost no champions in league that, assuming equal skill, are 20+ CS ahead or behind the FOTM champions, while also being situationally optimal. Diverse power curves is the key to champion diversity. And then a champ like Syndra gets 20 base damage knocked off her main skill because she's too good early. Rito pls There's also the problem that too many champs have what I can best describe as 'general power'. They just do most things well, without massive downsides. Take Gragas and Rek'sai as an example. They both provide pretty much everything you could want from a jungler. They clear well, provide early ganking pressure with their early damage, CC and mobility and can then transition into tanks effectively. I know Azir is getting changed, but that's part of his problem as well - Sure he might be designed around DPS and Zone Control, but he also offers poke and sick wave clear, as well as having some escape ability. Why pick a champ that is just good at zoning, when you can get zoning, poke, DPS and some safety as well? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 09 2015 16:40 JazzVortical wrote: And then a champ like Syndra gets 20 base damage knocked off her main skill because she's too good early. Rito pls There's also the problem that too many champs have what I can best describe as 'general power'. They just do most things well, without massive downsides. Take Gragas and Rek'sai as an example. They both provide pretty much everything you could want from a jungler. They clear well, provide early ganking pressure with their early damage, CC and mobility and can then transition into tanks effectively. I know Azir is getting changed, but that's part of his problem as well - Sure he might be designed around DPS and Zone Control, but he also offers poke and sick wave clear, as well as having some escape ability. Why pick a champ that is just good at zoning, when you can get zoning, poke, DPS and some safety as well? Im just a pleb, but the Azir problem is that he is clearly a lategame champion. His lvl 1 being terrible is the first thing you notice, and the fact that he gets more soldiers with more levels is the second. However, he is not a terrible lvl 1-6 or even 1-11 champion, which is what DOTA would do to Azir. Moreover, if he was, he would not be viable. This is just the designers' mistake. In not recognizing how powercurves are supposed to work. When Renekton was balanced (long ago) he dominated 1-11. At equal skill against Jax, Irelia, etc he would be 15-30 CS ahead, but that was not a win. That was just being even. At some point, that was actually winning so only champions named Mundo and Shyvana could compete because they had the same powercurve with minor modifications. And thus, we have the Toplane problem. In modern times, we have the same problem translated to many lanes, which is the LOL competitive diversity problem. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4186 Posts
Another thing that will probably impact the diversity is the itemization. At the moment only the defensive itemization may vary to some extend. Meaning that you can itemize against AP or AD or against AOE or mixed damage, maybe something else. However, if you need an offensive itemization there is always one superior path for every game, no matter what is your team or the enemy. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also no huge gp10. Mundo doesn't have the same powercurve as Renekton nor Irelia, what are you talking about? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On July 09 2015 12:46 Nos- wrote: Thought most people went scaling cdr blues these days on poke heros They do, but Azir'll hit 40% CDR at 18 while getting the AS through W will give the same amount of AS at 13, since it's maxed second. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On July 09 2015 22:04 riotjune wrote: I'm done reading patch notes rito shits out every week. I just go into ranked and wing it now. I normally watch Saint patch preview | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
Saint: Nerf to Xin's AP ratio. Hur, Riot lets broken shit come out like Luden's but we gotta stop AP Xin because of the 2-3 people that player it. Doesn't notice they specifically said in the change summary it was because Xin was outhealing Mundo. I like Saint's rundowns, but some times his like of insight or ability to read is painful. Either way, still better than the rundown Scarra did for this patch. *shudders* | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 09 2015 23:01 Ansibled wrote: Devourer doesn't start stacking until you buy the item, it sucks. rofl probably wont see much play in progames but holy shit this fucking destroys soloq | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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