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gg ez discussion will not be continued in GD following this post |
On May 15 2015 00:40 snow2.0 wrote:
I feel like Ashe's slow is less powerful now, and volley obviously is harder to hit on multiple targets.
I do not understand how this is supposed to make her a BETTER utility AD?
Her slow is slightly less powerful for most of the game when you compare how you'd have leveled Q before to how her new passive progresses.
Old Q: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35%
New Passive: 5 / 11 / 17 / 23 / 29 / 35% (Levels: 1 / 4 / 7 / 10 / 13 / 16)
But when you activate new Q you get +20% to the passive slow for 4 seconds, which basically smashes old Q.
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She's a better utility ADC in sense that 1) she's still an utility ADC 2) she's much better ADC now than before the rework. Doesn't matter that she used to have slightly better utility if she simultaneously had much worse damage than now.
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Vizicsacsi (from UoL) has been playing a surprising amount of top lane Nocturne recently. Maybe 8-10 games a week for the past few weeks. He always goes 21-9, with AS quints, AD Reds HP/lvl yellow and MR blues, Smite TP
His build path seems to be start with ruby (sometimes machete) -> buy a bunch of potions. I assume he is killing a camp, backing and them buying potions and teleporting to lane.
He always builds to cinder hulk first. Then level 1 boots.
Then he gets either Level 2 boots or BotRK. Then he gets whichever one of those wasn’t first.
Then he gets in varying orders Black Cleaver, Randuins and MR (either Spirit Visage or Maw). He seems to usually get Cleaver or Randuins first.
I think this is pretty interesting but have a few questions:
1) Why would you play tank nocturne top with Smite TP instead of one of the more natural tanks?
2) Why sometimes start with Ruby and sometimes Machete. Ruby seems by far the more common start for him, what factors would make him deviate?
3) Generally how should you play nocturne in lane? I usually play him in jungle, but lane is a very different place?
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New Ashe does so much damage holy shit. Without the Q up she's not particularly amazing (though ult still pretty good I guess) but with the Q she turns into walking death. Impossible to get to too because of the slow.
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I think the E changes makes up for the loss of Q utility and then some.
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On May 15 2015 01:30 General_Winter wrote:
Vizicsacsi (from UoL) has been playing a surprising amount of top lane Nocturne recently. Maybe 8-10 games a week for the past few weeks. He always goes 21-9, with AS quints, AD Reds HP/lvl yellow and MR blues, Smite TP
His build path seems to be start with ruby (sometimes machete) -> buy a bunch of potions. I assume he is killing a camp, backing and them buying potions and teleporting to lane.
He always builds to cinder hulk first. Then level 1 boots.
Then he gets either Level 2 boots or BotRK. Then he gets whichever one of those wasn’t first.
Then he gets in varying orders Black Cleaver, Randuins and MR (either Spirit Visage or Maw). He seems to usually get Cleaver or Randuins first.
I think this is pretty interesting but have a few questions:
1) Why would you play tank nocturne top with Smite TP instead of one of the more natural tanks?
2) Why sometimes start with Ruby and sometimes Machete. Ruby seems by far the more common start for him, what factors would make him deviate?
3) Generally how should you play nocturne in lane? I usually play him in jungle, but lane is a very different place?
1. Why is he better than who? Shyvanna/Maokai? Probably because his level 6 ganks would be pretty potent even from top lane. I can see him playing a similar role as Hecarim.
2. He probably takes machete when he knows he has a hard lane or the enemy has fast waveclear and he'll be forced to farm the jungle.
3. I would assume you just farm and wait to gank other lanes. Maybe harass with trail or something.
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On May 15 2015 01:30 General_Winter wrote:
1) Why would you play tank nocturne top with Smite TP instead of one of the more natural tanks?
I don't know about Nocturne in particular, but it's probably combination of, a) people not knowing how to lane against Nocturne and thus losing lane because of gimmicky shit, b) something strong about him that we don't know/think about (I guess he deals ok damage with no ad items and ult is always useful?), c) Vizi just plays wacky shit.
2) Why sometimes start with Ruby and sometimes Machete. Ruby seems by far the more common start for him, what factors would make him deviate?
Machete offers you no laning phase stats while ruby crystal does. However if you start Ruby Crystal then you're farther from getting the challenging smite. So if you think you might have to recall before earning 850 gold then you should save that gold, and at this point might as well buy the machete to clear the lvl1 camp faster.
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On May 15 2015 01:46 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 01:30 General_Winter wrote:
Vizicsacsi (from UoL) has been playing a surprising amount of top lane Nocturne recently. Maybe 8-10 games a week for the past few weeks. He always goes 21-9, with AS quints, AD Reds HP/lvl yellow and MR blues, Smite TP
His build path seems to be start with ruby (sometimes machete) -> buy a bunch of potions. I assume he is killing a camp, backing and them buying potions and teleporting to lane.
He always builds to cinder hulk first. Then level 1 boots.
Then he gets either Level 2 boots or BotRK. Then he gets whichever one of those wasn’t first.
Then he gets in varying orders Black Cleaver, Randuins and MR (either Spirit Visage or Maw). He seems to usually get Cleaver or Randuins first.
I think this is pretty interesting but have a few questions:
1) Why would you play tank nocturne top with Smite TP instead of one of the more natural tanks?
2) Why sometimes start with Ruby and sometimes Machete. Ruby seems by far the more common start for him, what factors would make him deviate?
3) Generally how should you play nocturne in lane? I usually play him in jungle, but lane is a very different place?
1. Why is he better than who? Shyvanna/Maokai? Probably because his level 6 ganks would be pretty potent even from top lane. I can see him playing a similar role as Hecarim. 2. He probably takes machete when he knows he has a hard lane or the enemy has fast waveclear and he'll be forced to farm the jungle. 3. I would assume you just farm and wait to gank other lanes. Maybe harass with trail or something.
I played Hecarim vs. Nocturne top the other day and it seemed legit. He was able to trade with me pretty evenly throughout the laning phase. I outroamed him later cause lolhorse, but I got the feel that his team was generally worse, so I cant judge. He was definitely the most useful on his team. (edit: Now I remembered that he was actually quite annoying, because his ult stopped me from teleporting.)
New Ashe is great tho, I beasted through 2 games with her just now carrying super hard. Still weary of calling her very strong cause of her immobility, but I'll definitely be playing more of her.
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Vizicsacsi also plays tp/smite garen, so theres that
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On May 15 2015 02:57 JimmiC wrote:
On ashe do u max q instead of w now?
Probably not, I would think the CD gains on W are too strong.
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That and the only thing you get for leveling Q is slightly more attack speed and damage per rank. The CD and slow bonus don't change.
Once you have items those bonuses matter, but leveling it first is meh.
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am i wrong or does Ashe pretty much get 15% attack speed for free at level 1 from the frenzy mastery while every other ADC gets like zero benefit from it until they complete IE?
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Pretty much. It takes 3 crits to stack, but then Q's full active crits 5 times per attack. >.>
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On May 15 2015 03:47 chalice wrote:
am i wrong or does Ashe pretty much get 15% attack speed for free at level 1 from the frenzy mastery while every other ADC gets like zero benefit from it until they complete IE?
No I've been saying that for a while now. It was the first thing I noticed when I tested nuAshe
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her 'crit' doesn't register as a crit for crit-related mechanics, so it probably also doesn't get reduced by the defense tree mastery (though not sure on that one). Probably coded the same way Pantheon's 'crit' is.
edit: turns out I'm wrong.
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Pantheon does crit with his passive actually. And it's reduced, and he gets the bonus damage from IE.
If it interacts with Frenzy, it interacts with the defensive mastery too.
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On May 15 2015 03:59 Kaethis wrote:
her 'crit' doesn't register as a crit for crit-related mechanics, so it probably also doesn't get reduced by the defense tree mastery (though not sure on that one). Probably coded the same way Pantheon's 'crit' is.
edit: slow
it also seems like help pix could do up to like 150 damage on ashe over the duration of the shield at level 3 because i think it will double proc on each flurried auto and lategame teamed up with an solo lane AP lulu things might get kind of ridiculous.
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Pix can be proc'd up to twice a second, so you're correct that the potential damage there is high. It does require an unobstructed target though.
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EPT
