EPTDoesn't that just mean it's best to assess the situation (hope you can assess it right) and then make the best choice? Basically just arguing against deciding randomly?...
[Patch 5.9] Ashe Rework General Discussion - Page 44
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Doesn't that just mean it's best to assess the situation (hope you can assess it right) and then make the best choice? Basically just arguing against deciding randomly?... | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:23 Caiada wrote: Actual question, not argument. Doesn't that just mean it's best to assess the situation (hope you can assess it right) and then make the best choice? Basically just arguing against deciding randomly?... I think the point is that in situations where the mid and jungler disagree on who should get the buff, then it should default to the midlaner. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:17 Goumindong wrote: P(Win|X,M > Win|X,J) where "win" is winning the game, x is the specific situation you're in when you make the decision, and M/J being deciding for the jungler or the mid is and will always be a fixed percent chance. It will be a different fixed percent chance if X changes. But at the time you make the decision, X is fixed. Situations changing after we have made the decision are why we look at actions as having a probabilistic outcome Now, if you can predict the future then good on ya, but well. I don't think you can Yes, I can predict the future. For example I can tell with almost miraculous degree of accuracy whether I can make better use of blue buff than the middle laner depending on the circumstances in the game. Fucking crazy, right? | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:24 Ansibled wrote: I think the point is that in situations where the mid and jungler disagree on who should get the buff, then it should default to the midlaner. Ah. Yeah, that's sound. I mean, there's a case for assuming your judgment is better depending on evidence, of course, but I dunno. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:24 Ansibled wrote: I think the point is that in situations where the mid and jungler disagree on who should get the buff, then it should default to the midlaner. Cheep is arguing that it should default to the midlaner, the rest of us are arguing that it should default to the jungler making an educated decision about who should get it based on the circumstances of that individual game, which will likely lead him to giving it to the mid laner in the majority of circumstances anyway. Cheeps argument is that this doesn't make sense because mid and jungle should have equal game information and equal skill levels, so this doesn't make sense because if they don't agree its impossible to tell who is right. But that's not the case, because while players should be perfect, they aren't, and in reality the jungler has easier access to game information than the mid laner does, so he should make the decision and the mid laner should trust that decision. This is what all the diamonds and masters players are saying and cheep basically refuses to admit that he doesn't understand the game as well as Scip and should just concede this point. At least that's my following of it. I don't really know what the fuck is going on. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I would advise you in solo queue to just blindly do what your jungler says in regards to blues and dragons and barons. You'll have junglers make retarded decisions but they are the best equipped to make those decisions and it'll be better for you to be with the team when they do a stupid baron than to be farming wraiths or whatever and then unable to hold 1v5 while also flaming them for losing it afterwards. | ||
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
I think it's been brought up by a number of posters already but it really boils down to "can this random Mid Lane make use of blue buff better than I can?" as the primary question and "will this random Mid Lane lose lane because the enemy Mid has blue buff and he doesn't?" as a secondary. I obviously I have more faith in myself than a pug in solo queue. If Mid Lane is so far behind the enemy, it doesn't really matter if he gets blue buff or not. In fact, it's better if I take it and use it to gank a winning lane and make sure our blue isn't fed to the enemy. So many sweeping, blanket statements and hyperbole from various parties that it's no wonder GD is so active today. CN/KR Junglers might cede more blue buffs to their Mid Lane than NA/EU but I hardly consider that a major or even minor contributing factor as to why CN/KR solo queue is in a better state. If the premise is true (Asian Junglers cede more blue buffs), I merely view it as a statistic. Correlation != causation. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:39 Sonnington wrote: So I'm picking up LIGHTNING SHEN build. It's easily the most fun I've had in LoL in quite some time. Make sure you level Feint second and whenever you get a kill type in all caps, "LIGHTNING SHEN MOTHER FUCKERS!" Also get into it, do some role playing. Talk about yourself in the third person. Here's the guide. I personally don't like the rageblade. I think Gunblade is probably the better choice so you have better sustain. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l2TY_EnjFc RIP Ionic Spark. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:34 JimmiC wrote: Rest of us is untrue. I agree that it should go to mid if there is a disagreement. I also think that in the end jungler will get when he wants because of smite. Ketera I find it interesting that u think jungle should get choice but in your games try to steal it with Lux ult. Do as I say not as I do? I don't understand if there's a disagreement between you (the jungler) and the middle lane about who should get blue then you clearly think you should get the blue if you think you should get the blue but think that your middle laner is more likely to be right then you're just disagreeing with yourself wtf? If you're an outside spectator you USUALLY have more info to go off of than just the player's position anyway so whatever. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
The entire argument settles around this hypothetical disagreement between the jungler and mid over who should get blue buff. And it assumes that the opinions of these two parties have equal value. That assumption is wrong. The junglers opinion is more important. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:28 Ketara wrote: Cheep is arguing that it should default to the midlaner, the rest of us are arguing that it should default to the jungler making an educated decision about who should get it based on the circumstances of that individual game, which will likely lead him to giving it to the mid laner in the majority of circumstances anyway. Cheeps argument is that this doesn't make sense because mid and jungle should have equal game information and equal skill levels, so this doesn't make sense because if they don't agree its impossible to tell who is right. But that's not the case, because while players should be perfect, they aren't, and in reality the jungler has easier access to game information than the mid laner does, so he should make the decision and the mid laner should trust that decision. This is what all the diamonds and masters players are saying and cheep basically refuses to admit that he doesn't understand the game as well as Scip and should just concede this point. At least that's my following of it. I don't really know what the fuck is going on. Your position makes no sense because its basically you saying it defaults to the jungle making an informed choice, but we only care in the case that said choice is one that the mid disagrees with (aka him keeping blue). We only care about this situation, and what is "correct" then. Teut thinks this is 1% or so, it seems to me to be much higher, probably 20%. Your solution is actually to just give it to the jungle. The underlying premise to the whole argument is that junglers take blue too often, which, if true, means your argument that they know better is wrong. So it all boils down to an empirical argument (which people are constantly confounding with random situations involving yasuo), of if the current mid transfer percentage is too low, and if so, the tie should go to the mid. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2015 10:55 JimmiC wrote: I was trying to say I think it should go to the mid, but the jungler will take it when he/she wants because of smite. Your last statement could be true, but I believe that having a non ragey mid is probably more valuable then the small boost you would get in the jungle. Could even give the mid a psychological boost. But sometimes it SHOULDN'T go to the mid wat do then That non-ragey mid can be more valuable depends and it's up to your personal experience to decide how much of a concern it is. In my experience it's not a problem at all, but maybe things are a bit different on your server/level of play. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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