|
|
On December 25 2014 08:17 nafta wrote:
The upfront damage doesn't really do much.It just has a better build path/cheaper and more useful early because pushing waves to do dem rotatoes is a big deal.
100 magic damage is nothing to laugh at, not to mention a 45% chance for it to be 250 magic damage, is pretty insane burst with rotation. Especially something like Lucian who's all about upfront burst.
|
Well if you add the locket that your enemy has and your lack of mpen it becomes irrelevant pretty much.If you can add 2 autos and maybe a crit in the fight overall you will do the same if not more.The burst situation is nice and all but most of the time doesn't mean too much by the time you actually finish the item.
|
On December 25 2014 08:27 nafta wrote:
Well if you add the locket that your enemy has and your lack of mpen it becomes irrelevant pretty much.If you can add 2 autos and maybe a crit in the fight overall you will do the same if not more.The burst situation is nice and all but most of the time doesn't mean too much by the time you actually finish the item.
that's why PD is better later on, but as a 2nd item timing, you'll often have a window of strength where the magic damage is still relevant. Locket timing is generally later than SS timing.
SS+IE deals more upfront damage than IE+PD. It isn't until LW 3rd (or 4th) item timing (or BT 3rd or 4th item timing), where battles start to run long, where continuous damage output of PD outstrips SS. Which makes PD a much better SS replacer.
Also,if you don't count SS magic passive, nor PD's unit collision passive. PD is more efficient raw stats wise in comparison to SS by ~15%.
|
So, is everyone agreeing with me or are y'all quibbling about the 3 games per 100 when PD becomes optimal, and thus it doesn't need to be rebalanced?
|
On December 25 2014 09:36 cLutZ wrote:
So, is everyone agreeing with me or are y'all quibbling about the 3 games per 100 when PD becomes optimal, and thus it doesn't need to be rebalanced?
Cait is probably the only champion I can think of that would probably prefer PD first, but tbh it's such a negligible difference that early on, the break point is pretty similar at their respective power points.
|
Cait seems to me as the prime example where PD is worse. Cait really loves the faster clear at 2 items to push turrets as fast as possible.
|
On December 25 2014 10:48 Prog wrote:
Cait seems to me as the prime example where PD is worse. Cait really loves the faster clear at 2 items to push turrets as fast as possible.
The early IE should make her clear fast enough with her Q, the increased AS for PD would be better for turret pushing.
|
On December 25 2014 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 10:48 Prog wrote:
Cait seems to me as the prime example where PD is worse. Cait really loves the faster clear at 2 items to push turrets as fast as possible. The early IE should make her clear fast enough with her Q, the increased AS for PD would be better for turret pushing.
Q + Shiv clear is so satisfying though.
On December 25 2014 01:00 sharky246 wrote:
I am not from America so this bother me too much but how come Riot doesn't have U.S West and East like Starcraft and Warcraft 3?
Apparently riot doesn't want to split the community (maybe because it might make queue times much longer), but wc3 was doing quite well with 2 split servers. And i think it's safe to say lol has more users than wc3 during its prime or roughly equal.
It's all about the size of the player base. EU literally had too many players on it for it to handle, so it got split into EUW and EUNE for stability purposes. NA hasn't gotten that big, so Riot doesn't want to split the NA community up. As a result, all this ping/packet drop nonsense gets worse and worse over time but it still hasn't reached a thresh hold where Riot will decide they want to split the server. Riot is going out of it's way to move their server center to somewhere in the "middle" of the country to avoid making an NAE server.
|
On December 25 2014 11:01 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On December 25 2014 10:48 Prog wrote:
Cait seems to me as the prime example where PD is worse. Cait really loves the faster clear at 2 items to push turrets as fast as possible. The early IE should make her clear fast enough with her Q, the increased AS for PD would be better for turret pushing. Q + Shiv clear is so satisfying though. Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 01:00 sharky246 wrote:
I am not from America so this bother me too much but how come Riot doesn't have U.S West and East like Starcraft and Warcraft 3?
Apparently riot doesn't want to split the community (maybe because it might make queue times much longer), but wc3 was doing quite well with 2 split servers. And i think it's safe to say lol has more users than wc3 during its prime or roughly equal. It's all about the size of the player base. EU literally had too many players on it for it to handle, so it got split into EUW and EUNE for stability purposes. NA hasn't gotten that big, so Riot doesn't want to split the NA community up. As a result, all this ping/packet drop nonsense gets worse and worse over time but it still hasn't reached a thresh hold where Riot will decide they want to split the server. Riot is going out of it's way to move their server center to somewhere in the "middle" of the country to avoid making an NAE server.
I don't know the specifics behind it, but why couldn't they have a joint NA WE for chat/friends list etc, but matchmaking is done by location basis for everything up until diamond. You could geographically prefer to play on NAE or NAW, and for normals/ranked up until diamond you would get q'd into whatever server you chose.
|
On December 25 2014 09:36 cLutZ wrote:
So, is everyone agreeing with me or are y'all quibbling about the 3 games per 100 when PD becomes optimal, and thus it doesn't need to be rebalanced?
having an item have its niche without being a common buy isn't a problem by itself. the question is if its fulfilling its niche properly, if PD had 1k more combine cost, but had 30% more attack speed. would it fulfill its niche better or worse, as the best in slot item but cost inefficient enough that shiv is the better choice for a first attack speed item.
|
On December 25 2014 11:18 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 11:01 Gahlo wrote:On December 25 2014 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On December 25 2014 10:48 Prog wrote:
Cait seems to me as the prime example where PD is worse. Cait really loves the faster clear at 2 items to push turrets as fast as possible. The early IE should make her clear fast enough with her Q, the increased AS for PD would be better for turret pushing. Q + Shiv clear is so satisfying though. On December 25 2014 01:00 sharky246 wrote:
I am not from America so this bother me too much but how come Riot doesn't have U.S West and East like Starcraft and Warcraft 3?
Apparently riot doesn't want to split the community (maybe because it might make queue times much longer), but wc3 was doing quite well with 2 split servers. And i think it's safe to say lol has more users than wc3 during its prime or roughly equal. It's all about the size of the player base. EU literally had too many players on it for it to handle, so it got split into EUW and EUNE for stability purposes. NA hasn't gotten that big, so Riot doesn't want to split the NA community up. As a result, all this ping/packet drop nonsense gets worse and worse over time but it still hasn't reached a thresh hold where Riot will decide they want to split the server. Riot is going out of it's way to move their server center to somewhere in the "middle" of the country to avoid making an NAE server. I don't know the specifics behind it, but why couldn't they have a joint NA WE for chat/friends list etc, but matchmaking is done by location basis for everything up until diamond. You could geographically prefer to play on NAE or NAW, and for normals/ranked up until diamond you would get q'd into whatever server you chose.
The main problem I see with that is duo queues. How do you solve that? Is a mixed coast duo reliant on another mixed coast duo being in queue with matchable ratings? Do you just throw them into any game and adjust the MMR shift based upon that? How, exactly do you determine how much that adjustment is? Is it static or variable? Why sould players be punished by climbing ranks as a duo to only get split at diamond because of geography? How is that fair for the off-coasters team in a, for example, (WE)EEE setup? And these are just overarching design questions off the top of my head as Joe Genero. Then you'd have a bunch of technical issues in how to set up a system like that to even run.
Clearly the current state of NA is a shit show that Riot has put off for years. Now they need to do something about it because east coast player more and more commonly a) moving to LAN for 1/2 to 1/3 of the ping b) not buying RP, and each person that does covers for a decent amount of players considering most people don't, and c) quit playing all together and go to other MOBAs where there is no "gotta unlock'em all" to catch up on and has a responsive server.
|
United States47024 Posts
TBH Chat is sufficiently de-coupled from everything else that I don't think there's a compelling reason why Chat couldn't be global and games be region-locked.
|
On December 25 2014 12:44 TheYango wrote:
TBH Chat is sufficiently de-coupled from everything else that I don't think there's a compelling reason why Chat couldn't be global and games be region-locked.
but what if you wanna duo queue with your buddy on the other coast?
|
United States47024 Posts
It can just disallow you from inviting people to games when they're in a different region. Not that complicated, lol.
Whether NAW and NAE should be separate regions is a completely different matter, but it's not outrageous for NA, EUW, EUNE, etc. to all be on chat together even if they can't necessarily play games together.
EDIT: Though doing it at this point is complicated by the fact that there's user ID overlap across regions, so it's kind of annoying (but not impossible) to merge everything.
|
not to mention how it could negatively affect the competitive scene. If all the talent is on the west coast (the teams) and east coast is left to fight for themselves, it'll be much harder to scout east coast talent than west coast, which would in theory put the burden on teams to have their scouts do double duty, but in reality, they'll just ignore the east.
|
On December 25 2014 13:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
not to mention how it could negatively affect the competitive scene. If all the talent is on the west coast (the teams) and east coast is left to fight for themselves, it'll be much harder to scout east coast talent than west coast, which would in theory put the burden on teams to have their scouts do double duty, but in reality, they'll just ignore the east.
But they get all their imports from Korea.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
United States47024 Posts
On December 25 2014 13:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
not to mention how it could negatively affect the competitive scene. If all the talent is on the west coast (the teams) and east coast is left to fight for themselves, it'll be much harder to scout east coast talent than west coast, which would in theory put the burden on teams to have their scouts do double duty, but in reality, they'll just ignore the east.
Well no, what will happen is what happened in EU when EU got split into EUW/EUNE--everyone who's any good will just play on one server.
|
Next patch they can just rehash user IDs to include something about the region they're logging in to.
But they're probably too busy figuring out why Shen ult is coded as a minion
|
On December 25 2014 13:05 Zess wrote:
Next patch they can just rehash user IDs to include something about the region they're logging in to.
But they're probably too busy figuring out why Shen ult is coded as a minion
Easy answer: because everything is coded as a minion.
|
On December 25 2014 13:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 13:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
not to mention how it could negatively affect the competitive scene. If all the talent is on the west coast (the teams) and east coast is left to fight for themselves, it'll be much harder to scout east coast talent than west coast, which would in theory put the burden on teams to have their scouts do double duty, but in reality, they'll just ignore the east. Well no, what will happen is what happened in EU when EU got split into EUW/EUNE--everyone who's any good will just play on one server.
thats kind of what will be the result of them ignoring the east. there is no way the pro players switch to east, so anyone wanted to be scouted goes to the west.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
