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On November 26 2014 17:17 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 17:07 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't remember that ever being the case, but I didn't start playing til like end of season 1. Looked it up on google, only a mention of this in 2010 on rito lol forums. So either poppy was so obsolete no one noticed, secretly patched (no patch notes regarding passive), or smash qq is more unfounded than alaric's qq post. Hue It definitely was a thing. You could go into a test game where Pantheon skills Heartseeker for the autocrit, Poppy skills nothing (so Paragon stacks aren't fucking with the damage), and once you get into Poppy passive range, progressive autoattacks would do steadily less damage. The passive wasn't working the way it was written. It probably got fixed if it works fine now.
Once you're in poppy passive range progressive auto attacks should do progressively less damage. This is because a larger portion of the incoming damage will be over 10% of poppys current health and subject to the 50% damage reduction.
If you take 100 post resist damage when you have 500 HP poppy should take 75 damage (10% is 50, rest is halved). If you take 100 post resist damage at 425 HP poppy should take 71.25 damage (10% is 42.5 rest is halved)
It seems more likely that the bug you're describing is in heartseeker not properly applying auto crit?
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She has a channel time before she ults, and it's cancelled if a champion or tower damages her, the channel is only 1.5s though.
On November 26 2014 16:51 TheYango wrote:
Is Poppy's passive still the buggiest skill in the game?
Don't make me mention Vi. 
(Wasn't me this time, but during an IH yesterday someone had to reconnect to the game because he stopped being able to cast Q altogether. After the reconnection it worked fine though.)
Goumindong, the "steadily" in Yango's post suggests it was decreased by more than it should have.
Sejuani is a burst damage nerf, especially in AoE, it also doesn't improve her dps that much if you were able to hit your Q on multiple people (since it's the triggering it of W that deals %HP damage, it only affects one person if you get the hit in before W auto-activates). It's also a massive cc nerf for ganks and teamfights' openings stages, or chases.
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On November 26 2014 18:21 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 18:05 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 26 2014 17:47 Fildun wrote:On November 26 2014 17:20 Parnage wrote:Are those Sejuani buffs? Seems kind of a shuffling of some kind. I dunno, I suck at parsing this kind of thing. This isn't even getting into lowering the duration of permafrost's slow. It's a flat nerf, especially her E. Don't listen to PX. ? i mean mathematically she does more damage, thats a fact. that doesn't make her stronger. i've said many times she'll be weaker overall. Please explain your math then.
Are you serious? Lol okay
Arctic Assault (Q) damage changed to 80/125/170/215/260 (+.4 AP) from 40/70/100/130/180 (+.4 AP)(+4/6/8/10/12% of Target's Max HP) break even point is 1000/920ish/875/850/670ish
so her Q does less damage late but more damage overall in the jungle and early ranks.
but it hardly matters anyway because of:
Flail of the Northern Winds (W) initial hit damage changed to 4/6/8/10/12% (+3% per 100 AP) of Target's Max HP from 40/60/80/100/120 (+.3 AP).
Flail of the Northern Winds (W) AoE damage changed to 40/70/100/130/160 (+.6 AP)(+4/6/8/10/12% total Health) from 80/120/160/200/240(+.6 AP)(+10% Bonus HP)
Initial hit: breaks even at 1000 hp (less depending on AP you can expect 700hp break point with a magus enchantment for instance) Important to note that Flail starts its cooldown immediately after hitting with this initial hit, and has a 4 second less base CD than Arctic assault at all ranks, making this % hp DPS much higher at all ranks (25-30% higher)
DoT: Sejuani starts with 600 hp, giving her 24(+~4 per level, wonky because of the variable stat gain)/36(+~6 per level)/48(+~8 per level)/60(+~10 per level)/72(+~12 per level) all ranks have the additional % value toward any bonus health.
at level 18, sejuani gains 265 damage from her base hp, and an additional 2% overtop the old scaling for every bonus HP. meaning this spell does an increased amount of DoT regardless of AP (though with AP it just does much more overall than her Q+W did before)
Permafrost (E) cooldown lowered to 10/9/8/7/6 from 11
Permafrost (E) damage lowered to 60/90/120/150/180 (+.5 AP) from 60/110/160/210/260 (.5 AP)
Permafrost (E) slow duration reduced to 1.5 at all ranks from 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5
this one is easy. Permafrost does 30(+.083AP) DPS with the update, and 24(+.045AP) DPS before.
She just does more damage.
now far more of her damage is in melee range, and she has less tools to actually stay IN melee range, so she's probably going to be weaker overall, as the full second decrease in her slow duration will likely make it far more difficult to gank with her as well. but she does do more damage.
On November 26 2014 19:03 Alaric wrote:
Sejuani is a burst damage nerf, especially in AoE, it also doesn't improve her dps that much if you were able to hit your Q on multiple people (since it's the triggering it of W that deals %HP damage, it only affects one person if you get the hit in before W auto-activates). It's also a massive cc nerf for ganks and teamfights' openings stages, or chases.
Do you even piggy queen Alaric?
Sejuani's next basic attack deals bonus magic damage to the target and enemies near it. She then swings her flail, dealing magic damage each second to enemies within range for 4 seconds.
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It wasn't mentioned in the first two diffs I read about her skills.
Actually, wiki says it's the case currently. Since when? I'm pretty sure the initial hit didn't do AoE at release.
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On November 26 2014 19:21 Alaric wrote:
It wasn't mentioned in the first two diffs I read about her skills.
you can test it if you want, go in the jungle and smack the middle monster with her flail active. it does damage to the little wolves and the big wolf, and then the DoT starts.
On November 26 2014 19:21 Alaric wrote: Since when? I'm pretty sure the initial hit didn't do AoE at release.
Thats probably because there wasn't an initial hit at all on that skill at release. it was just a plain activate aoe DoT. the first hit did AoE since it existed though.
sejuani would actually be a great champion to study the changes to see how riot determined and refined their champion design philosophies. she'll have gone through 2 fairly substantial changes, from having a complicated method to her clear, 2 difficult to maximize abilities, and 2 exceptionally impactful abilities, to having 2 moderately impactful abilities and 1 ability that scaled up to be powerful, everything was made easier to use as well. and now to spammy little to moderate impact ability and a brainless clear.
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On November 26 2014 19:13 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 18:21 Fildun wrote:On November 26 2014 18:05 PrinceXizor wrote:On November 26 2014 17:47 Fildun wrote:On November 26 2014 17:20 Parnage wrote:Are those Sejuani buffs? Seems kind of a shuffling of some kind. I dunno, I suck at parsing this kind of thing. This isn't even getting into lowering the duration of permafrost's slow. It's a flat nerf, especially her E. Don't listen to PX. ? i mean mathematically she does more damage, thats a fact. that doesn't make her stronger. i've said many times she'll be weaker overall. Please explain your math then. Are you serious? Lol okay Show nested quote +Arctic Assault (Q) damage changed to 80/125/170/215/260 (+.4 AP) from 40/70/100/130/180 (+.4 AP)(+4/6/8/10/12% of Target's Max HP) break even point is 1000/920ish/875/850/670ish so her Q does less damage late but more damage overall in the jungle and early ranks. but it hardly matters anyway because of: Show nested quote +Flail of the Northern Winds (W) initial hit damage changed to 4/6/8/10/12% (+3% per 100 AP) of Target's Max HP from 40/60/80/100/120 (+.3 AP).
Flail of the Northern Winds (W) AoE damage changed to 40/70/100/130/160 (+.6 AP)(+4/6/8/10/12% total Health) from 80/120/160/200/240(+.6 AP)(+10% Bonus HP) Initial hit: breaks even at 1000 hp (less depending on AP you can expect 700hp break point with a magus enchantment for instance) Important to note that Flail starts its cooldown immediately after hitting with this initial hit, and has a 4 second less base CD than Arctic assault at all ranks, making this % hp DPS much higher at all ranks (25-30% higher) DoT: Sejuani starts with 600 hp, giving her 24(+~4 per level, wonky because of the variable stat gain)/36(+~6 per level)/48(+~8 per level)/60(+~10 per level)/72(+~12 per level) all ranks have the additional % value toward any bonus health. at level 18, sejuani gains 265 damage from her base hp, and an additional 2% overtop the old scaling for every bonus HP. meaning this spell does an increased amount of DoT regardless of AP (though with AP it just does much more overall than her Q+W did before) Show nested quote +Permafrost (E) cooldown lowered to 10/9/8/7/6 from 11
Permafrost (E) damage lowered to 60/90/120/150/180 (+.5 AP) from 60/110/160/210/260 (.5 AP)
Permafrost (E) slow duration reduced to 1.5 at all ranks from 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 this one is easy. Permafrost does 30(+.083AP) DPS with the update, and 24(+.045AP) DPS before. She just does more damage. now far more of her damage is in melee range, and she has less tools to actually stay IN melee range, so she's probably going to be weaker overall, as the full second decrease in her slow duration will likely make it far more difficult to gank with her as well. but she does do more damage. Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 19:03 Alaric wrote:
Sejuani is a burst damage nerf, especially in AoE, it also doesn't improve her dps that much if you were able to hit your Q on multiple people (since it's the triggering it of W that deals %HP damage, it only affects one person if you get the hit in before W auto-activates). It's also a massive cc nerf for ganks and teamfights' openings stages, or chases. Do you even piggy queen Alaric? Show nested quote +Sejuani's next basic attack deals bonus magic damage to the target and enemies near it. She then swings her flail, dealing magic damage each second to enemies within range for 4 seconds.
Since you won't actually be in range for most of your W it's still a damage nerf in actual in-game situations. The E was guaranteed damage, which got nerfed hard. Q also got a nerf vs players. Yes, the new first hit W is good but that's about it.
Still, pretty impressed you actually did math that shit.
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Kalista, new champion and even Yasuo buffs on PBE are incredibly disillusioning for me (Well, actually started with Xerath rework). I don't understand Riot sometimes. League is just really frustrating to follow and be a part of.
At least Summoner's Rift update is great.
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the most interesting sejuani change was the added AP ratio to her % hp damage. you could go magus + rylais and run around dealing 21% max hp damage on a 7 second ( 4 second with cdr) cooldown. I dunno how much you'd need defensively to make do with something like that, but it'll be da,m funny to see.
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On November 26 2014 20:37 JazzVortical wrote:
Kalista, new champion and even Yasuo buffs on PBE are incredibly disillusioning for me (Well, actually started with Xerath rework). I don't understand Riot sometimes. League is just really frustrating to follow and be a part of.
At least Summoner's Rift update is great.
Yasuo is pretty weak currently. He's only thought of as really strong/OP because people keep banning him.
edit: Anyone having issues connecting to league games on EUW? I just get a black screen then sometimes an error saying my internet connection is down but it's only league that's having issue.
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I know of people saying they get the leaverbuster flag when it's the server acting up yeah.
I've been having freezes too, although it's better out of the week-end.
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whatever they did with the last patch cut my FPS in half, game is an unplayable slideshow now. Anyone else start having issues? Get around 30-40 FPS instead of 60 now.
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On November 26 2014 19:03 Alaric wrote:She has a channel time before she ults, and it's cancelled if a champion or tower damages her, the channel is only 1.5s though. Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 16:51 TheYango wrote:
Is Poppy's passive still the buggiest skill in the game? Don't make me mention Vi. (Wasn't me this time, but during an IH yesterday someone had to reconnect to the game because he stopped being able to cast Q altogether. After the reconnection it worked fine though.)
Goumindong, the "steadily" in Yango's post suggests it was decreased by more than it should have. Sejuani is a burst damage nerf, especially in AoE, it also doesn't improve her dps that much if you were able to hit your Q on multiple people (since it's the triggering it of W that deals %HP damage, it only affects one person if you get the hit in before W auto-activates). It's also a massive cc nerf for ganks and teamfights' openings stages, or chases.
Alt casting said ability fixes this 99.9% of the time.Happens on all channeled abilities like xerath/varus q etc.Not exclusive to vi.
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Unplayable slideshow? 40 fps should be plenty enough to play the game, as long as I don't dip below 35 I'm fine.
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On November 26 2014 22:35 Alaric wrote:
Unplayable slideshow? 40 fps should be plenty enough to play the game, as long as I don't dip below 35 I'm fine.
pretty much only get that when im jungling or something. In teamfights it drops to below 10 and makes doing anything pretty impossible
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On November 26 2014 22:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
whatever they did with the last patch cut my FPS in half, game is an unplayable slideshow now. Anyone else start having issues? Get around 30-40 FPS instead of 60 now.
Works fine at the start but I usually get a big dip i fps randomly somewhere around the middle, no matter if anything is going on. Tabbing out and in usually fixes it.
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Re: Sejuani math.
Just looking at it, I think it's a damage increase if you're fighting somebody who's just standing there. Q damage is honestly similar (buffed if opponent has less than 1000 HP, nerfed if they have more than 1000).
W aura damage was straight buffed, the on hit was nerfed for targets under 1000 HP and buffed for targets over 1000 HP.
The critical thing is her E damage, which is worse initially but much better over time. It's gone from 23.6 DPS to 30 DPS.
What stands out to me is that they've shifted power from Q on to her W on-hit active, which can honestly be difficult to land properly in a messy fight, and they've made her ratios stronger. E ratio stays the same with a shorter cooldown so it's being applied more often, the W on hit ratio got better, Q ratio stayed the same and her HP ratio on W got better.
I wouldn't be surprised if these changes meant Sej starts leveling W second instead of Q second, and edges a little bit more towards building AP items, although probably still mostly full tank.
Another thing that stands out to me is that before you couldn't really use her Q just as a gapcloser, you had to hit people with it because it was a big part of her damage. Now you'll be much better able to just use it to gapclose.
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Pretty much everyone goes full ap sejuani actually.
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Well if you're going full AP on Sej then these changes will just be a gigantic buff.
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On November 27 2014 00:34 Ketara wrote:
Re: Sejuani math.
Just looking at it, I think it's a damage increase if you're fighting somebody who's just standing there. Q damage is honestly similar (buffed if opponent has less than 1000 HP, nerfed if they have more than 1000).
W aura damage was straight buffed, the on hit was nerfed for targets under 1000 HP and buffed for targets over 1000 HP.
The critical thing is her E damage, which is worse initially but much better over time. It's gone from 23.6 DPS to 30 DPS.
What stands out to me is that they've shifted power from Q on to her W on-hit active, which can honestly be difficult to land properly in a messy fight, and they've made her ratios stronger. E ratio stays the same with a shorter cooldown so it's being applied more often, the W on hit ratio got better, Q ratio stayed the same and her HP ratio on W got better.
I wouldn't be surprised if these changes meant Sej starts leveling W second instead of Q second, and edges a little bit more towards building AP items, although probably still mostly full tank.
Another thing that stands out to me is that before you couldn't really use her Q just as a gapcloser, you had to hit people with it because it was a big part of her damage. Now you'll be much better able to just use it to gapclose.
W is a nerf early buff late. The onhit needs 1k hp for % to match the old flat. However, the AOE dips from 86 to 66. So, the she's shittier at AOEing camps and to make up for the AOE drop on the main target it needs to have 1500 max HP. The problem is that Crimson Raptor has 1200HP, Greater Murk Wolf has 1320, and Ancient Krug has 1440. The only large monsters in the jungle that this is a buff against is buffs and Gromp.
This and slow duration are the main reason why I consider these changes a nerf. They do nothing to help her as a jungler and only hurt her.
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On November 27 2014 00:56 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 00:34 Ketara wrote:
Re: Sejuani math.
Just looking at it, I think it's a damage increase if you're fighting somebody who's just standing there. Q damage is honestly similar (buffed if opponent has less than 1000 HP, nerfed if they have more than 1000).
W aura damage was straight buffed, the on hit was nerfed for targets under 1000 HP and buffed for targets over 1000 HP.
The critical thing is her E damage, which is worse initially but much better over time. It's gone from 23.6 DPS to 30 DPS.
What stands out to me is that they've shifted power from Q on to her W on-hit active, which can honestly be difficult to land properly in a messy fight, and they've made her ratios stronger. E ratio stays the same with a shorter cooldown so it's being applied more often, the W on hit ratio got better, Q ratio stayed the same and her HP ratio on W got better.
I wouldn't be surprised if these changes meant Sej starts leveling W second instead of Q second, and edges a little bit more towards building AP items, although probably still mostly full tank.
Another thing that stands out to me is that before you couldn't really use her Q just as a gapcloser, you had to hit people with it because it was a big part of her damage. Now you'll be much better able to just use it to gapclose. W is a nerf early buff late. The onhit needs 1k hp for % to match the old flat. However, the AOE dips from 86 to 66. So, the she's shittier at AOEing camps and to make up for the AOE drop on the main target it needs to have 1500 max HP. The problem is that Crimson Raptor has 1200HP, Greater Murk Wolf has 1320, and Ancient Krug has 1440. The only large monsters in the jungle that this is a buff against is buffs and Gromp. This and slow duration are the main reason why I consider these changes a nerf. They do nothing to help her as a jungler and only hurt her.
I do not think you're correct, fair Gahlo.
Like, lets look at the bird camp for an example.
The little guys have 250 HP and the big guys have 1200.
A level 3 Sejuani currently will do 220+4% enemy HP+10% bonus HP+1.8 AP
With normal items n' stuff this will come out to 220+10/48+5.8+39.6
Or 275 vs little guys and 313 vs big guy. Enough to kill the little guys and make you sit there autoing the big guy forever.
With these changes she'll do 180+11.5/55.2+31.9+33
Or 256 vs little guys and 300 vs. big guy. Enough to kill the little guys and make you sit there autoing the big guy forever.
Basically, clear speed shouldn't change at all. It is likely the same number of autoattacks on big things early regardless, but because of the better ratios and E cooldown her clear speed will get better as she gets more levels.
And her E slow goes from a 22% uptime to a 25% uptime, so. Critically if you have a slow from other source (Randuins or a jungle item) it lets you E - Randuin - E for a longer duration in total.
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EPT
