As someone pointed out, the Leona vs Janna matchup is basically depends on the Janna. You have to be really good to keep throwing back Leona while she Es. It is really hard, because you can make no mistakes, while the Leona can just derp around. Even if you start knife and harass Leo early so she can't go in, once she buys (and have points on w), you can't do shit against her with Janna damage wise, it's a leona vs [your marksman]. Once both of you hit lvl 6, the lane is pretty much equal, both of you can fuck each other with your ults, but you have the advantage of being on the reactionary side. The moment you see your adc is being ulted, you can think through whether you just want to press r and say "nope" (keep in mind, Leos ult will be up faster, so if you can disengage without ulting, do it), ult leona under your turret (only if she already used e, otherwise she will just zenith herself back), or go all in on the other marksman. Usually you can only do the latter if your adc just got slowed, otherwise you two are at a great disadvantage (talking about a 0/0/0 lane). So, basically you have to reach lvl 6 without dying. What I usually do is sticking to my adc, so I can Q back Leona's E. If you keep harassing leo with your aas, she can just ignore you and go straight to your adc and then you have to be a fucking god to cancel a mid-air zenith from the side.
If you want a hard counter just pick Janna's tank version, Alistar. He shits all over Leona. If you pick Janna vs Leo thinking she's a counter, you're gonna have a bad game.
As for the Janna vs Tristana... I don't know, when I choose my support I always check who is their support and who is my marksman. I don't believe in supports countering adcs. The whole laning phase at bot is about the supports, so even if you believe that you actually countered the enemy ad, it means nothing if they support "countered" you. We can theorize scenarios like "but if she jumps, and I tornado her...", but what if you can't tornado her? What if the whole time this Trist W - Janna Q interaction will never even come up? Janna's shield is definetly good vs the burning, but it's not like healing supports suck vs Trist, you just have to wait for the debuff to go away.
On August 01 2014 09:01 Senorcuidado wrote:
So after all this talk about Janna I wanted to try her and I swear I carried 5 games in a row. It didn't matter how bad my adc was; I could carry the lane. I now believe in the lane presence. Leona, Thresh, Braum, I could counter initiate or disengage easily. In small scale skirmishes I felt more impactful than Leona. The only rough part was late game fights where I can't find a good chance to ult a lot of times. I should be less timid with the ult, since it causes me to die sometimes, but I fear those scenarios where the idiot Janna ruins a whole team fight. I'm sure that will come with practice. She is amazing at peeling, but I do miss being able to lock down fed carries like Leona can. I started with Spellthief in the first two games and then tried Ancient Coin and liked coin much better. Overall I'm very sold on the Janna, and you should try it.
- You should keep trying switching between coin and spellthief. I mean, I believe it's utter shit on Janna after the nerf, and I did not like it either before that, but if peeps keep saying it's much better, you should probably give it a try vs different supports.
- You can usually carry bad adcs by being passive as fuck vs agressive lanes. Remember, winning a lane is about kills, but if there are no kills, it's all about the cs. No one cares if your adc farms under tower with 30% hp if he keeps up the farm. As I said before, it's really hard and risky to all-in a Janna, especially under tower, her shield can screw with ignite supports, and being pushed has the advantage of getting a gank from your jungler. Shield harass can carry bad adcs early, but you'll barely do any damage later (not to mention how risky and mana-inefficent it is to 2v1 with Janna) if your adc won't help out. Eventually you will feel out with practice, when can you be an annoying pesk, flash ulting people for kills, and when you have to stay put, waiting for the opponent to engage or mess up.
- About the Janna ruins the whole team fight... Mmm, you can't be afraid to not to do what you think is right. It is evident that there will be scenarious where your ult denies damage from your team, but if you have to ult, just ult. There was that Ziggs who flamed me to hell, when I pushed everyone out from his ult (it actually did damage, because it got them at the side, while being knocked back. It was pretty amusing), but someone got caught, and I had to choose. 1. Don't do anything, let him die for free. 2. Don't do anything, let him die, but Ziggs may ult and we might pick up turnaround kills. 3. Save him for sure. I even hesitated half a second, saying "CMON ZIGGS" in my mind, but when 4 people jumps on someone, you only have so much time to decide, so I ulted, and the exact moment the Ziggs ult came. Not sure if any of them died after we went on them, but my guy survived, and I'd do the same, even though in hindsight, it would've been better to let him die. Why would I do the same? Because it's soloQ, and I would've been the biggest idiot, if I let my teammate die, and Ziggs did not ult, or all of them get away after that, and I'd be like "OMG ZIGGS, I THOUGHT YOU ULT, Y U NO ULT?". I could blame him all game long (like he did with me), but I had the chance of denying them a kill, and I can not blame anyone for it, unless I was told/pinged otherwise.
It is especially true when you have a priority target to defend (the adc, usually). In my example it was just a guy (maybe the adc, doesn't really matter now) getting caught, if he dies it's "just" free money for them, it was early in the game, but in an actual teamfight, you can not afford to lose him. Your adc dying instantly makes you pretty useless as well, unless you have some fed teammates to tend for, but even then, they are probably melees, so keeping people away from them is a no-no.
In another, more recent example, my kinda fed trist jumped on Vayne to finish her, and I was coming from the side. It was going okay, until Vayne condemned her to the wall, and her support was just about to arrive as well. It was 50-50 which adc would die first, but Trist had a bounty, and if Vayne survives with enough hp she could chase me down too (we were behind their turret #diamondplays), so I ulted for the heal, which knocked Vayne away with very few hp left on her. The very best play would've been to position myself in a way, where my ult heals Trist, but does not reach Vayne, but when she got condemned it was too late for that.
In my Janna-career I had one game where I actually lost a game with ult, it was in s2 where Morgana mid was a thing, and I fucked up my Morgs perfect, 5 man ult near baron. Holy shit I did not even know what to say. So, 1 game out of the hundreds. As I advised earlier, you should always go for it, otherwise you will always be left wondering "hmm, maybe if I were to take the risk and ult...". You can never perfect it, it is a skill which is practically unmastarable in terms of always utilizing it for it's highest potential, but if you get used to it, you can win games with it. I played vs a Janna today, I was Malz mid, quite low hp, and she was mid with Lissandra, who had low mana. Janna w-d me, and I was like wtf bitch, so I ulted her under my tower. She then flashed BEHIND me, to knock me out. Lissandra could not react to it, and she just died. It was a really good idea, but badly executed. It would've worked if I did not have ult, or if she lets Liss push up to my tower.
Some general advice:
- if you know there are channeled shit to be interrupted (fiddle ult, malz ult, fed mf ult, ww ult) or strong aoe ults like Kennen or Wu, wait them out, and be ready to flash ult, and get that distortion encantment rolling. Especially true vs Fiddle, because even if you flash but use Q, it will be probably to late cuz of Qs traveling time, and once Fiddle ulted, he fill insta-fear you then zhonya. Kennen is one of the easiest to practice against, because if you can't shit on him in teamfights, it is a good feedback for you that you should practice your ult and tf presence more. Fotm Kennen in s3 was such a freelo for me
- I did not mention Katarina, because she's like Leona. You'd think you counter her, but she is way too nimble, and you have to be so focused, that it can bite you in the ass, especially after her ult buff. You can deal with fed brusiers, but you will not stop a snowballed Katarina. Whether you like it or not, she will deal enough damage to get her resets
- You should ult right away if any assassin jumps on your carry, but this can apply to bruisers with gapclosers (Jax, Ire). It negates the instant "WTF IM ATTACKED" damage on your adc, and they will have to walk or flash up to you if they want to commit (there are exceptions, like Akali), which is already a huge win. You still have your summoners, and now you can see the battlefield clearly, so it's much easier to react to stuff.
- If you feel like you might be in some nasty collapse, press r immidietly, don't mind that it is an ultimate skill with lenghty cd. Even if you wander alone and get caught, just press it, because if you'll be "Imma solve it, no problem", then you get a nice slow or stun, and then you are dead, whether you ult or not.
Edit:
- Ah, 1 more. There are many bot all-ins post 6, where you will need to ult, to win the fight. Sure, you can always disengage with it, but netting a kill or two is even better. The key to win these fights is to stand between the enemy adc and support, and ult in a way, wehere 1. support gets knocked far from your adc, and especially far from his adc 2. you heal your own adc, keep it channeled, and only interrupt it if you have to shield him 3. the enemy adc is knocked the other way, but preferably still auto range for your carry. Just look out for the bushes, cuz you can easily knock the adc into an unwarded bush, and then you have to cancel your ult asap to ward it, because the last thing you want from your adc is to facecheck a bush in a close encounter.
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EPT
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