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[Patch 4.12] RIP Lucian General Discussion - Page 28

Forum Index > LoL General
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Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 20 2014 00:45 GMT
#541
Like, I'm seriously considering going Spirit Stone/Sorc/Guise as an early core.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 20 2014 00:56 GMT
#542
That'd probably be alright, I still think that wraith ---> sorc is good atm. I don't feel like I'm lacking any earlygame damage when I open with that before going tanky.
Glorious SEA doto
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 20 2014 00:58 GMT
#543
On July 20 2014 09:56 Fusilero wrote:
That'd probably be alright, I still think that wraith ---> sorc is good atm. I don't feel like I'm lacking any earlygame damage when I open with that before going tanky.

It's that precise 3k window that feels crappy to me.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 20 2014 01:06 GMT
#544
Well in lomoQ it's not like you'll be jumping into teamfights any time soon, wraith ---> sorc might need some kills. I suppose stone --> sorcs ---> sightstone might be a more reasonably "rounded" build at that 1 - half to two items stage you're talking about.
Glorious SEA doto
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 20 2014 01:26 GMT
#545
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 20 2014 01:39 GMT
#546
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 20 2014 01:46 GMT
#547
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.

they were sure right about lucian being useless right?

basically poster above me is right
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 01:51:16
July 20 2014 01:46 GMT
#548
On July 20 2014 10:39 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.

In Starcraft you fucking scout that shit out, and modify your build, and most pro's try to delay their pool as much as possible way later. You have like 5 minutes in beginning of game to determine your machete build path, and 99% of the time, spectral wraith is the better buy over Ancient Golem, and it's been this way for a long ass time. High elo or low elo, unless you're actually so fucking bad that you can't land any of amumu's ability, in that case you should probably uninstall instead of playing the game.

How well did Qtpie do in that tourney? cuz iirc, he got butt blasted. And we're talking about azingy's main here. This is the shit that got him to super high elo on NA, I'm pretty fucking sure he knows a lot more about the mummy than arb. But, maybe Noobville has some Jungling Mummy 101 class that I'm not aware of.
On July 20 2014 10:46 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.

they were sure right about lucian being useless right?

basically poster above me is right

On July 16 2014 09:40 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 08:36 arb wrote:
On July 16 2014 08:31 MooMooMugi wrote:
So.... Kog & Trist are untouched but Lucian is getting nerfed, makes sense.

lolol

remember when tl was like "no one is going to play trist even with these buffs because her mid game sucks"

Her midrange still sucks. Just the bt nerfs made it more bearable. Kog still a tier above trist in competitive imo. Smoother powercurve makes kog stronger, which is pretty important considering how snowbally dragon has become again.

Lucian probably gunna have to be played in 2v1 lane with this range change... and maybe hit botrk asap and then use extreme midgame slipperiness to fight skirmish like fights? At least in competitive

Still said it might be viable in competitive in midgame scenario.... Don't know what you're trying to say here arb..
liftlift > tsm
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 20 2014 01:49 GMT
#549
Nobody's saying that pro players are always right though. It's just stupid to say that building spectral wraith on Amumu means that they have no idea what they're doing when these players clearly do have some idea what they're doing.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 02:09:55
July 20 2014 02:08 GMT
#550
On July 20 2014 10:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 10:39 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.

In Starcraft you fucking scout that shit out, and modify your build, and most pro's try to delay their pool as much as possible way later. You have like 5 minutes in beginning of game to determine your machete build path, and 99% of the time, spectral wraith is the better buy over Ancient Golem, and it's been this way for a long ass time. High elo or low elo, unless you're actually so fucking bad that you can't land any of amumu's ability, in that case you should probably uninstall instead of playing the game.

How well did Qtpie do in that tourney? cuz iirc, he got butt blasted. And we're talking about azingy's main here. This is the shit that got him to super high elo on NA, I'm pretty fucking sure he knows a lot more about the mummy than arb. But, maybe Noobville has some Jungling Mummy 101 class that I'm not aware of.
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 10:46 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.

they were sure right about lucian being useless right?

basically poster above me is right

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 09:40 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 16 2014 08:36 arb wrote:
On July 16 2014 08:31 MooMooMugi wrote:
So.... Kog & Trist are untouched but Lucian is getting nerfed, makes sense.

lolol

remember when tl was like "no one is going to play trist even with these buffs because her mid game sucks"

Her midrange still sucks. Just the bt nerfs made it more bearable. Kog still a tier above trist in competitive imo. Smoother powercurve makes kog stronger, which is pretty important considering how snowbally dragon has become again.

Lucian probably gunna have to be played in 2v1 lane with this range change... and maybe hit botrk asap and then use extreme midgame slipperiness to fight skirmish like fights? At least in competitive

Still said it might be viable in competitive in midgame scenario.... Don't know what you're trying to say here arb..


Since i've played in beta Mummy has always been a mash r and win champion to me, after you hit r you run around with w on and headbutt people and then mash e when its up.

Never been a fan of going any sort of ap outside of abyssal(which has tank stats + a good aura for your team) in general. Maybe has no idea what they're doing was a bad statement but whatever aint even worried about it.

I mean sure if you already have a tank top lane/snowballing go ahead and build it who cares, i'd rather not be squishy and feel like i'm going to die when the wind blows too hard. Especially when retards in my elo go it regularly and die mid bandage toss or eat 2 spells before a fight and cant do anything because they're worthless as fuck.

Who know's maybe it is superior now(which wouldnt surprise me) since quill coat sucks dick. But i'd still much prefer the tankiness into sunfire/abyssal and cdr later than i would some extra ap anyday tbh.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
IamPryda
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1186 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 02:25:42
July 20 2014 02:24 GMT
#551
I prefer tankyness to but I also play the mummy for his fast clear times and strong ganks in the mid game without mana you cant do both. when trying out golem you are pretty much locked into golem>sunfire>iceborn/fh. and really with golem u would much rather have cowl or a giants belt after sunfire with the golem for the scaling health.

plus the difference in damage on your q is a noticeable difference between wraith and golem
Moar banelings less qq
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 02:29:12
July 20 2014 02:27 GMT
#552
quill coat does not return enough mana to make up for being a better late game item path on mummy

and his ratios are pretty good so it's not like wraith is straight up bad. honestly the real advantage to golem previously is how stupid good an earily pair of tabi are on him, now it makes no difference if you have golem or not.
Carrilord has arrived.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2475 Posts
July 20 2014 02:55 GMT
#553
Ever since this doom bot patch I've been getting so much worse latency in game. I usually play at ~140 (yeah it sucks but it's playable) but since this doom bot patch it's constantly ~180+ and will spike up to 2k+ for like 2 or 3 seconds at a time, really annoying. Everything else I use my net for it's exactly the same as it's always been, so it's gotta be something with league. Annoying as hell.

Also, my mouse sensitivity drops when I get into game. Only started doing that since this patch as well. It's not like it drops much but it feels like it's just 1 notch lower or something, really weird.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 03:20:28
July 20 2014 03:20 GMT
#554
On July 20 2014 11:55 SidianTheBard wrote:
Ever since this doom bot patch I've been getting so much worse latency in game. I usually play at ~140 (yeah it sucks but it's playable) but since this doom bot patch it's constantly ~180+ and will spike up to 2k+ for like 2 or 3 seconds at a time, really annoying. Everything else I use my net for it's exactly the same as it's always been, so it's gotta be something with league. Annoying as hell.

Also, my mouse sensitivity drops when I get into game. Only started doing that since this patch as well. It's not like it drops much but it feels like it's just 1 notch lower or something, really weird.


Might want to try switching to Google's DNS (there's a a support page on how to change that). I had similar issues over the last few patches and eventually I couldn't even connect, and that helped.
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 03:34:02
July 20 2014 03:32 GMT
#555
On July 20 2014 08:25 Sufficiency wrote:
Average win rate vs Doom Bots is 51%.

Why no unranked/pre-level 30s?

I'm actually pretty interested in that, there was a level 12 person on Soaraka in my doom bots level 1 game. >_>

(It was fine, I was just a little surprised a level 12 is playing against doom bots).
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 03:45:35
July 20 2014 03:44 GMT
#556
On July 20 2014 10:39 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.


Just because high elo players aren't always right doesn't mean that the way that high elo players play isn't evidence of optimality. Its not perfect evidence of optimality, but if we are weighing it its more evidence than "what a random person who isn't high elo does".

come on man, epistemology should be your strong suit if you're doing stats work

That being said, a once over on pro builds seems to suggest that Quill works, even if Spectral Wraith is by far the most popular choice

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Amumu
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
July 20 2014 03:51 GMT
#557
I prefer Spectral Wraith on Amumu just because I like to all-in on my engages when I'm playing a catch a team champ. I don't care if I survive if I blow everyone up. Burst damage and catch potential are probably the two most important things in solo queue and SotSW on Amumu allows you to do both of those things. Being tankier is overrated in the current meta as a jungler.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 20 2014 03:53 GMT
#558
On July 20 2014 12:44 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 10:39 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.


Just because high elo players aren't always right doesn't mean that the way that high elo players play isn't evidence of optimality. Its not perfect evidence of optimality, but if we are weighing it its more evidence than "what a random person who isn't high elo does".

come on man, epistemology should be your strong suit if you're doing stats work

That being said, a once over on pro builds seems to suggest that Quill works, even if Spectral Wraith is by far the most popular choice

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Amumu


Only three of these games are even from after quill coat was added, and one of them is Dan Dinh playing support Amumu. Probuilds is just stupid and doesn't include player's smurfs. A better way to check for lesser played champions would be to go on Lolskill and look up D1+ players with a ton of games on that champion.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 20 2014 04:27 GMT
#559
On July 20 2014 12:53 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 12:44 Goumindong wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:39 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.


Just because high elo players aren't always right doesn't mean that the way that high elo players play isn't evidence of optimality. Its not perfect evidence of optimality, but if we are weighing it its more evidence than "what a random person who isn't high elo does".

come on man, epistemology should be your strong suit if you're doing stats work

That being said, a once over on pro builds seems to suggest that Quill works, even if Spectral Wraith is by far the most popular choice

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Amumu


Only three of these games are even from after quill coat was added, and one of them is Dan Dinh playing support Amumu. Probuilds is just stupid and doesn't include player's smurfs. A better way to check for lesser played champions would be to go on Lolskill and look up D1+ players with a ton of games on that champion.


D1, tons of games on AMumu? like.... Azingy?
Carrilord has arrived.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 04:37:54
July 20 2014 04:37 GMT
#560
On July 20 2014 12:53 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 12:44 Goumindong wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:39 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 20 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 07:29 arb wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:39 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 20 2014 06:38 IamPryda wrote:
anyone been playing mumu jungle with the new golem? having a ton of success but I feel I am running into mana problems more so then before

spectral wraith is still the go to mummy item.

i like when people get wraith on mummy, it tells me they have no idea what they're doing


yeah, all the high elo mumu jungler like azingy have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they get wraiths. fucking lol.


I kind of hate this argument, because it assumes:

1. A high elo player knows everything. They don't. I remember back in the Best Riven NA tournament, QTpie was using the jungle monster damage reduction masteries even though it was clearly stated on the rules that no jungling is allowed. Azingy is no QTpie, but this is just a more severe example.

2. A high elo player's item build is also the best for lower divisions. I am no starcraft player, but let's say that all pro zerg players do 9 pool, because if you get greedy and do 12 pool you will get severely punished and lose the game. However, for an average player, 12 pool might be better because an average opponent will not be able to punish such greedy builder order.


Just because high elo players aren't always right doesn't mean that the way that high elo players play isn't evidence of optimality. Its not perfect evidence of optimality, but if we are weighing it its more evidence than "what a random person who isn't high elo does".

come on man, epistemology should be your strong suit if you're doing stats work

That being said, a once over on pro builds seems to suggest that Quill works, even if Spectral Wraith is by far the most popular choice

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Amumu


Only three of these games are even from after quill coat was added, and one of them is Dan Dinh playing support Amumu. Probuilds is just stupid and doesn't include player's smurfs. A better way to check for lesser played champions would be to go on Lolskill and look up D1+ players with a ton of games on that champion.

Lolskill is such a weird site.Wish they would post some explanations on how they grade people.

Like the first amumu is a guy in challenger from tr who is negative in everything but deaths with 600 games.2nd amumu is d1 21 points with 570 games still negative in everything but deaths.

Like sure kda doesn't really mean much but seems rather odd.
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