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[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 64

Forum Index > LoL General
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Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 13 2014 05:24 GMT
#1261
On July 13 2014 13:43 K3Nyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2014 11:07 Sufficiency wrote:
My game sense is a lot better than in S2, but in terms of mechanics I never recovered after my break in mid S3. These days I either:

1. play jungle/support
2. play super passive as a laner

because I can't CS/harass anymore.


Only way to get better is to play aggressively in lane even if you lose. Playing passive is not really optimal and it doesn't win you games.

Why don't you spam some normal games? Sometimes I'd play really poorly for a while and just go on my other account and just play there.


I rarely get ahead in lane and my KDA is usually pretty bad even if I win. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/48338815



I just:

1. Pick OP champions that are easy to play and scale well.
2. Play passive
3. Don't get caught / throw
4. Be non-toxic

and I win games. Pretty simple.

According to na.op.gg I am top 5% lol on my main lol.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 13 2014 05:30 GMT
#1262
Dusty is not my lover. He's just a guy who says that I am the one.

But the kid is not my son.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
July 13 2014 05:32 GMT
#1263
The best way to practice early laning is just mass 1v1s imo
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 13 2014 05:32 GMT
#1264
Passive play can gain you ELO reliably but I really think aggression is the way to really improve as a player. You will never find the limits and potentials of situations and champions until you push them.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 13 2014 05:34 GMT
#1265
On July 13 2014 14:32 Scip wrote:
The best way to practice early laning is just mass 1v1s imo


Practice avec moi mon ami....
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 13 2014 05:38 GMT
#1266
On July 13 2014 14:32 sob3k wrote:
Passive play can gain you ELO reliably but I really think aggression is the way to really improve as a player. You will never find the limits and potentials of situations and champions until you push them.


That's a fair point, but honestly I am really not too keen on improving, at least not that fast. Being diamond is great, but I already jumped from gold to plat this season (in case that is worth anything) and now i am plat 3 so I am pretty content with where I am.

Setting expectation and having an eye on improvement ruins the game and makes me rage. Not too fun.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35160 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-13 05:50:33
July 13 2014 05:50 GMT
#1267
On July 13 2014 11:08 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2014 11:05 Bam Lee wrote:
On July 13 2014 10:54 Sufficiency wrote:
I can definitely see how rank soloQ ladder is getting inflated.

1500 Elo was gold in S2? Now I think 1500 Elo is like mid plat.


Which site are you using to track Elo?


I am not using any sites. I am just thinking of the 1500 Elo level around S2/early S3 compared to the gold/plat players nowadays.

+ Show Spoiler [elo chart image thing] +
[image loading]
ItsFunToLose
Profile Joined December 2010
United States776 Posts
July 13 2014 07:04 GMT
#1268
Legend is messed up. read plat/diamond V-->I for colors rather than I-->V
"skillshots are inherently out of your control whether they hit or not" -PrinceXizor
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 13 2014 11:43 GMT
#1269
I remember some months ago watching Teut play soloQ, notably Jax. He was going balls to the walls everytime and I remember seeing him destroy a Nasus and a Malph, who were thought to be good against Jax. I was surprised and asked him about the match-ups and he answered that he'd just picked up Jax and had no idea about them. But he certainly got a better feel about the early levels than me.

(When I was climbing low Gold I was beating Renekton handily as Jax because I'd play aggressive from the start. Some wouldn't be used to that and wouldn't know how to react, some would straight-up give me openings, some would play "normally" because they didn't realise they were stronger and I was making a lot of punishable mistakes/openings. Now they wouldn't let me anymore but at least I know how to beat them if they do.)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
July 13 2014 12:02 GMT
#1270
On July 13 2014 20:43 Alaric wrote:
I remember some months ago watching Teut play soloQ, notably Jax. He was going balls to the walls everytime and I remember seeing him destroy a Nasus and a Malph, who were thought to be good against Jax. I was surprised and asked him about the match-ups and he answered that he'd just picked up Jax and had no idea about them. But he certainly got a better feel about the early levels than me.

(When I was climbing low Gold I was beating Renekton handily as Jax because I'd play aggressive from the start. Some wouldn't be used to that and wouldn't know how to react, some would straight-up give me openings, some would play "normally" because they didn't realise they were stronger and I was making a lot of punishable mistakes/openings. Now they wouldn't let me anymore but at least I know how to beat them if they do.)

Neither of those are good vs jax lol.Teut is good at playing full retard though.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
July 13 2014 12:03 GMT
#1271
wtf nafta have you learned nothing from our 5's
malphite is great against jax you just throw rocks at him
OhTwoMise
Profile Joined September 2012
United States164 Posts
July 13 2014 12:45 GMT
#1272
On July 13 2014 13:43 K3Nyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2014 11:07 Sufficiency wrote:
My game sense is a lot better than in S2, but in terms of mechanics I never recovered after my break in mid S3. These days I either:

1. play jungle/support
2. play super passive as a laner

because I can't CS/harass anymore.


Only way to get better is to play aggressively in lane even if you lose. Playing passive is not really optimal and it doesn't win you games.


This gets spouted a lot as a truism, but it really doesn't hold up, especially at face value. It assumes that the level of play everyone aspires to contains ONLY aggression as a viable strategy, which is just not true. It also conflates safe play with passivity.

Even if we ignore all of that and grant that relentless aggression is always optimal, it's demonstrably not all-encompassing in terms of learning. It's heavily weighted toward lane knowledge. A safe player has almost by necessity better midgame decision-making than an aggressive player at the same level.
Disengaged
Profile Joined July 2010
United States6994 Posts
July 13 2014 13:20 GMT
#1273
The Korean Veigar voice reminds me so much of the Leprechaun movies its crazy lol
Maluk
Profile Joined August 2011
France987 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-13 15:41:21
July 13 2014 13:54 GMT
#1274
On July 13 2014 21:45 OhTwoMise wrote:
A safe player has almost by necessity better midgame decision-making than an aggressive player at the same level.


The thing is that you have to hit a very high level for "midgame decisions" to matter.

At low ELO the most important thing seems to be your team's morale against their team's morale. If you don't get a huge lead in your lane early on and you have another lane feeding, people on your team will see the scores and immediately lose their will to live. There is almost no team that is willing to fight back if you are starting with something like a 5 kills deficit in gold and below.

This is the only reason why I am trying to play as agressively as possible in ranked and it is more than sufficient imo.
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
July 13 2014 16:11 GMT
#1275
On July 13 2014 21:45 OhTwoMise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2014 13:43 K3Nyy wrote:
On July 13 2014 11:07 Sufficiency wrote:
My game sense is a lot better than in S2, but in terms of mechanics I never recovered after my break in mid S3. These days I either:

1. play jungle/support
2. play super passive as a laner

because I can't CS/harass anymore.


Only way to get better is to play aggressively in lane even if you lose. Playing passive is not really optimal and it doesn't win you games.


This gets spouted a lot as a truism, but it really doesn't hold up, especially at face value. It assumes that the level of play everyone aspires to contains ONLY aggression as a viable strategy, which is just not true. It also conflates safe play with passivity.

Even if we ignore all of that and grant that relentless aggression is always optimal, it's demonstrably not all-encompassing in terms of learning. It's heavily weighted toward lane knowledge. A safe player has almost by necessity better midgame decision-making than an aggressive player at the same level.


Nope. What aggression actually means is being active and taking opportunities when they present themselves.

Let's take an obvious example. Let's say you're playing Caitlyn against a Vayne. He goes in for a cs and you're in range to auto him with no minions of your own to kill at this moment. A good player would attack that Vayne, a bad one would just do something else like attack their own minions or wait for a last hit. And if Vayne doesn't back off, Caitlyn can continue autoing Vayne all the way to the tower, assuming the supports don't go in for the allin. This might be considered an "aggressive" play, but it is simply being active and knowing what you are capable of. A passive player would never push his limits to find out exactly what he could do in that situation.

Safe =/= passive or aggressive. Obvious examples of unsafe play is usually associated with aggressive play, like Wildturtle flashing over, but being too passive is also unsafe. Being too passive in lane leaves you open to being dived, getting out cs'ed and the enemy laner can roam and influence other lanes.

Being too passive in midgame/lategame lets the enemy take a bunch of objectives and grow their lead. Your team might have an advantage but just never would force dragons or towers. The reason why lower elo players see Nasus as such an op champion is because they are way too passive in the midgame and not forcing enough.

Anyway, I'm too tired to explain it all. I'll respond if you provide some examples or reasoning behind your claims.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 13 2014 16:20 GMT
#1276
Well excuse me.

Maybe by pasdive I meant safe
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
DiracMonopole
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1555 Posts
July 13 2014 16:51 GMT
#1277
On July 13 2014 13:23 Amui wrote:
You could still get different interesting aghs effects(not going to speculate on the cost/itemization of it, but only effects themselves)

One example for skarner: autos reduce cd of ult by .5s,1s on champs. Pull duration+ .25s.

Galio: ignore 1/2/3 instances of cc while ulting

Jarvan: Increase damage dealt to enemy champions inside cataclysm by 30%.

Shaco: Spawn 2 clones

Cass: Turn ALL enemies to stone

Kog: Ult Mana cost capped at 200(Helloooo AP kog)

I'd like to see force staff before aghs though(self only item).


Its going to be hard to balance it tbh. You are going to be choosing this over a deathcap/IE/etc

That said, you could do some interesting stuff with it, like adding new scalings. Imagine if agh malphite got something crazy, like armor scaling on his ult's knockup time, or if agh's brand did aoe damage on each ult bounce
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 13 2014 16:53 GMT
#1278
On July 14 2014 01:20 Sufficiency wrote:
Well excuse me.

Maybe by pasdive I meant safe

might just be semantics, but passive and safe are not the same.

you can be aggressive while still being very safe.
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
July 13 2014 17:06 GMT
#1279
EUW servers acting up and dropping everyone from the games, play at your own risk.
Good Game Riot, can we have stable servers?
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
July 13 2014 17:19 GMT
#1280
Game resumed 12 minutes later and 4v5, love you EUW servers..... xD
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