EPT[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 24 2014 13:41 Slusher wrote: watch deft Kog'maw and watch NA kog'maw and tell me getting uptime on right click takes no skill. Well of course. And the reality is that A-Move kiting and chasing is kinda THE ADC skill. To me he just sounds like an ADC who really wants to switch roles so he can play Kassadin and Jax which is totally understandable considering his 3years at one position (I can barely play 3 games at one spot). But champs like Kog, Cait, Varus are some of the hardest to maximize DPS uptime on. Also, maybe more ADCs should have the Midgame lull he points out, because in pro play more and more Korean teams are giving ADCs solo farm because with a minor lead they can zone out most toplaners, so in that environment, at least, oftentimes they were strong all game (and oddly weakest at like the 3 item mark). On June 24 2014 13:45 wei2coolman wrote: The reason mechanics are so important for ADC's is they have lower margin for error, any mistake means you die. Meanwhile in other roles, you generally have tools in your kit, or your build path allows you to have small margins of error without diminishing your overall combat effectiveness. Ironically, he pointed to the ADCs with high margins for error due to long range skillshots, close range combat effectiveness, or spammable escapes as high skill. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 24 2014 13:52 cLutZ wrote: Ironically, he pointed to the ADCs with high margins for error due to long range skillshots, close range combat effectiveness, or spammable escapes as high skill. Yeah, I don't really agree. Although the recent meta in NA with all the shields/heals/mikaels/lockets etc.have turned ADC's into tanks, but that's more a comp reliant thing, than role generalization. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Even with the item changes, I highly doubt Tristana is going to be remotely relevant in the pro scene. Her power curve is largely unchanged - her early game is still good, late game is still good, and mid game is still utter shit. Twitch was already arguably the strongest AD - the patch did nothing to change that. Lucian got hit, but triforce rush Lucian will probably just get more popular since BT rush is gone. Kog is still going to be super popular in KR, and may finally trickle into the West. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
rip IE + Greenpot Cait of old | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Edit: I'm just really salty about the Randuin's change in general. It's like the inverse of the Triforce change. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 24 2014 14:13 wei2coolman wrote: Anyone find it funny that these item changes are trying to make late game better for ADC's? Maybe should just revert changes to ADC's that they did into S3, rather than trying all these awkward item changes. ShieldThirster and shit. Maybe. I definitely think that the BT change isn't particularly good for ADs because the primary tradeoff between BT and IE was the 1-2 item versus the 3 item timing and the resulting dichotomy between ability and auto attack AD's. At the very least i liked the concept that you could choose between playing the early game and the lategame on some champions, and that other champions were pushed into the early game due to their build priorities. But now the best AD item to get first is IE or BotRK. Both of these items are for auto attack carries (though of different types) and so the non-AA based carries will fall into one of two camps "Strong enough to buy IE first and wreck the traditional IE first carries" or "worthless" I mean, how do you play Graves(not that Graves was amazingly strong before the patch) now? What conceptual item could you buy first? BotRK? Why wouldn't you play Vayne or Twitch or X where X is any other champion? Draven? MF? Varus? Lucian and Corki can at least get Triforce, but buying IE or BotRK first on those champions makes me feel like they should be playing a different champion. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On June 24 2014 15:07 sob3k wrote: Not that it matters too much but essence reaver is pretty good on Gangplank. Q all day, Q all night, have 40% CDR with brut/boots/reaver/masteries. Sirhcez has been running it on nasus. It is pretty trolly but one wave of Qs and he is back to full hp and full mana from almost dead and OOM. Pretty entertaining to watch at least. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 24 2014 15:25 IMoperator wrote: the adc itemization right now is just really awkward. IE first is such a terrible build path for midgame, you basically have no damage until after you complete PD, and even then, the enemies should have a lot of armor by then. I don't really understand what riot was going for with these changes, adc's were fine lategame, it was just their midgame that was an issue (besides lucian/corki/twitch) BF or BF+Pickaxe Then complete Zeal/Shiv Then complete IE. For auto based carries they can purchase a more "smooth" progression to their core IE/PD or IE/Shiv and still be reasonably effective due to the power of multiplicative stats. Alternately, Shiv first due to the power of its proc early, shoring up some of the mid game weaknesses. Edit: I am not sure if its optimal, but it seems like a decent option | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 24 2014 15:28 Goumindong wrote: BF or BF+Pickaxe Then complete Zeal/Shiv Then complete IE. For auto based carries they can purchase a more "smooth" progression to their core IE/PD or IE/Shiv and still be reasonably effective due to the power of multiplicative stats. Alternately, Shiv first due to the power of its proc early, shoring up some of the mid game weaknesses. Edit: I am not sure if its optimal, but it seems like a decent option shiv first isn't too bad if you have late game carry that can't trade early on and just needs to shore up sidelane farm for a long time in midgame. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
PD, PD, PD, PD, PD, Boots 2 | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Ghostblade as 2nd item for my adcs all the time. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On June 24 2014 15:18 Goumindong wrote: Maybe. I definitely think that the BT change isn't particularly good for ADs because the primary tradeoff between BT and IE was the 1-2 item versus the 3 item timing and the resulting dichotomy between ability and auto attack AD's. At the very least i liked the concept that you could choose between playing the early game and the lategame on some champions, and that other champions were pushed into the early game due to their build priorities. But now the best AD item to get first is IE or BotRK. Both of these items are for auto attack carries (though of different types) and so the non-AA based carries will fall into one of two camps "Strong enough to buy IE first and wreck the traditional IE first carries" or "worthless" I mean, how do you play Graves(not that Graves was amazingly strong before the patch) now? What conceptual item could you buy first? BotRK? Why wouldn't you play Vayne or Twitch or X where X is any other champion? Draven? MF? Varus? Lucian and Corki can at least get Triforce, but buying IE or BotRK first on those champions makes me feel like they should be playing a different champion. ratio carries tend to be more bursty. if you go cutlass in to IE its not that big a setback since lifesteal in lane is still important and cutlass still adds to your burst. | ||
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