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On June 24 2014 15:56 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 15:18 Goumindong wrote:On June 24 2014 14:13 wei2coolman wrote:
Anyone find it funny that these item changes are trying to make late game better for ADC's? Maybe should just revert changes to ADC's that they did into S3, rather than trying all these awkward item changes. ShieldThirster and shit. Maybe. I definitely think that the BT change isn't particularly good for ADs because the primary tradeoff between BT and IE was the 1-2 item versus the 3 item timing and the resulting dichotomy between ability and auto attack AD's. At the very least i liked the concept that you could choose between playing the early game and the lategame on some champions, and that other champions were pushed into the early game due to their build priorities. But now the best AD item to get first is IE or BotRK. Both of these items are for auto attack carries (though of different types) and so the non-AA based carries will fall into one of two camps "Strong enough to buy IE first and wreck the traditional IE first carries" or "worthless" I mean, how do you play Graves(not that Graves was amazingly strong before the patch) now? What conceptual item could you buy first? BotRK? Why wouldn't you play Vayne or Twitch or X where X is any other champion? Draven? MF? Varus? Lucian and Corki can at least get Triforce, but buying IE or BotRK first on those champions makes me feel like they should be playing a different champion. ratio carries tend to be more bursty. if you go cutlass in to IE its not that big a setback since lifesteal in lane is still important and cutlass still adds to your burst.
wat. how does cutlass add to your burst?
it only gives 25 AD and the active is pithy. It's only 100 magic damage with only 500 range. Compare that to 4.9 BT, which you can expect to add over 100 extra physical damage to your burst if you're playing more ability-oriented ADs like Graves. If you're not rushing Bork, you're better off going straight Dblade(s)->IE and praying for a lucky crit as part of your "burst."
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how is the range a factor when you are playing graves. and since a combo like graves leona can still literally delete people in lane 100 magic damage is superior to a 30 or so ad for the purpose of your all in.
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On June 24 2014 16:13 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 15:56 turdburgler wrote:On June 24 2014 15:18 Goumindong wrote:On June 24 2014 14:13 wei2coolman wrote:
Anyone find it funny that these item changes are trying to make late game better for ADC's? Maybe should just revert changes to ADC's that they did into S3, rather than trying all these awkward item changes. ShieldThirster and shit. Maybe. I definitely think that the BT change isn't particularly good for ADs because the primary tradeoff between BT and IE was the 1-2 item versus the 3 item timing and the resulting dichotomy between ability and auto attack AD's. At the very least i liked the concept that you could choose between playing the early game and the lategame on some champions, and that other champions were pushed into the early game due to their build priorities. But now the best AD item to get first is IE or BotRK. Both of these items are for auto attack carries (though of different types) and so the non-AA based carries will fall into one of two camps "Strong enough to buy IE first and wreck the traditional IE first carries" or "worthless" I mean, how do you play Graves(not that Graves was amazingly strong before the patch) now? What conceptual item could you buy first? BotRK? Why wouldn't you play Vayne or Twitch or X where X is any other champion? Draven? MF? Varus? Lucian and Corki can at least get Triforce, but buying IE or BotRK first on those champions makes me feel like they should be playing a different champion. ratio carries tend to be more bursty. if you go cutlass in to IE its not that big a setback since lifesteal in lane is still important and cutlass still adds to your burst. wat. how does cutlass add to your burst? it only gives 25 AD and the active is pithy. It's only 100 magic damage with only 500 range. Compare that to 4.9 BT, which you can expect to add over 100 extra physical damage to your burst if you're playing more ability-oriented ADs like Graves. If you're not rushing Bork, you're better off going straight Dblade(s)->IE and praying for a lucky crit as part of your "burst."
Be fair. BotRK has 8% current health and 10% max health on the active. The number of attacks you can get off in your burst also matter.
Re: IE->GB->LW only problem i have with this is the lack of MS and the problem with "what do you do if you really need the consistent AS"
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On June 24 2014 16:36 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 16:13 Ryuu314 wrote:On June 24 2014 15:56 turdburgler wrote:On June 24 2014 15:18 Goumindong wrote:On June 24 2014 14:13 wei2coolman wrote:
Anyone find it funny that these item changes are trying to make late game better for ADC's? Maybe should just revert changes to ADC's that they did into S3, rather than trying all these awkward item changes. ShieldThirster and shit. Maybe. I definitely think that the BT change isn't particularly good for ADs because the primary tradeoff between BT and IE was the 1-2 item versus the 3 item timing and the resulting dichotomy between ability and auto attack AD's. At the very least i liked the concept that you could choose between playing the early game and the lategame on some champions, and that other champions were pushed into the early game due to their build priorities. But now the best AD item to get first is IE or BotRK. Both of these items are for auto attack carries (though of different types) and so the non-AA based carries will fall into one of two camps "Strong enough to buy IE first and wreck the traditional IE first carries" or "worthless" I mean, how do you play Graves(not that Graves was amazingly strong before the patch) now? What conceptual item could you buy first? BotRK? Why wouldn't you play Vayne or Twitch or X where X is any other champion? Draven? MF? Varus? Lucian and Corki can at least get Triforce, but buying IE or BotRK first on those champions makes me feel like they should be playing a different champion. ratio carries tend to be more bursty. if you go cutlass in to IE its not that big a setback since lifesteal in lane is still important and cutlass still adds to your burst. wat. how does cutlass add to your burst? it only gives 25 AD and the active is pithy. It's only 100 magic damage with only 500 range. Compare that to 4.9 BT, which you can expect to add over 100 extra physical damage to your burst if you're playing more ability-oriented ADs like Graves. If you're not rushing Bork, you're better off going straight Dblade(s)->IE and praying for a lucky crit as part of your "burst." Be fair. BotRK has 8% current health and 10% max health on the active. The number of attacks you can get off in your burst also matter. Re: IE->GB->LW only problem i have with this is the lack of MS and the problem with "what do you do if you really need the consistent AS"
Turd was saying to go Cutlass into IE, which is what I was criticizing.
Bork rush is still great on AD carries that can use it.
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Is it true everybody is getting butthurt over this patch ?
Did it change that much ?
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All I'm going to say is a lot of the samsung and najin adc's are rushing things like Triforce and Ghostblade in solo q (with only 1 doran blade and no lifesteal items) and they are carrying hard as fuck still even in the early game.
I'll let you formulate your opinion on what that really means.
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On June 24 2014 17:34 GozoShioda wrote:
All I'm going to say is a lot of the samsung and najin adc's are rushing things like Triforce and Ghostblade in solo q (with only 1 doran blade and no lifesteal items) and they are carrying hard as fuck still even in the early game.
I'll let you formulate your opinion on what that really means.
To be fair, as professionals they should be able to crush solo queue with Atmas Impaler rush but I do think DL is exaggerating the downside of the changes. BotrK feels stronger on ADCs and weaker on bruisers which I like. If you dont think a 60% damage increase on the passive is big then you never thought the passive was a big deal. Im not convinced about ghostblade in bot lane as it seems like much more of a skirmisher item than an ADC item but maybe that is the new meta for ADCs in 4.10 and I am being stubborn. I do think ADCs require sustain and damage before they are a threat and I agree with DL that stacking dorans feels like a bad way to itemize sustain. I also agree with DL that standardizing super early IE introduces an unfortunate RNG element into the laning phase.
I guess the best way I can put it is to create an in game comparison. Do you guys remember Zed before he was changed to his current state? Old zed was really strong but also felt really fluid. All of his abilities lined up in such a way that any player fell into a natural rhythm shortly after picking him up. After the changes Zed is still good but he FEELS way clunkier in ways that have nothing to do with damage numbers or viability. ADCs are in the same spot I think, still strong but it feels like we have to go out of our way to meet requirements that came naturally before. Whether this is good or bad is anybody's guess.
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On June 24 2014 17:34 GozoShioda wrote:
All I'm going to say is a lot of the samsung and najin adc's are rushing things like Triforce and Ghostblade in solo q (with only 1 doran blade and no lifesteal items) and they are carrying hard as fuck still even in the early game.
I'll let you formulate your opinion on what that really means.
sounds like
DRAVEN
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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On June 24 2014 17:56 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 17:34 GozoShioda wrote:
All I'm going to say is a lot of the samsung and najin adc's are rushing things like Triforce and Ghostblade in solo q (with only 1 doran blade and no lifesteal items) and they are carrying hard as fuck still even in the early game.
I'll let you formulate your opinion on what that really means. To be fair, as professionals they should be able to crush solo queue with Atmas Impaler rush but I do think DL is exaggerating the downside of the changes. BotrK feels stronger on ADCs and weaker on bruisers which I like. If you dont think a 60% damage increase on the passive is big then you never thought the passive was a big deal. Im not convinced about ghostblade in bot lane as it seems like much more of a skirmisher item than an ADC item but maybe that is the new meta for ADCs in 4.10 and I am being stubborn. I do think ADCs require sustain and damage before they are a threat and I agree with DL that stacking dorans feels like a bad way to itemize sustain. I also agree with DL that standardizing super early IE introduces an unfortunate RNG element into the laning phase. I guess the best way I can put it is to create an in game comparison. Do you guys remember Zed before he was changed to his current state? Old zed was really strong but also felt really fluid. All of his abilities lined up in such a way that any player fell into a natural rhythm shortly after picking him up. After the changes Zed is still good but he FEELS way clunkier in ways that have nothing to do with damage numbers or viability. ADCs are in the same spot I think, still strong but it feels like we have to go out of our way to meet requirements that came naturally before. Whether this is good or bad is anybody's guess.
Eh. Tbh I think the 4.10 changes may actually just shift the focus away from BF sword items into Triforce and Ghostblade.
There's no longer any reason to not build Brutalizer into Ghostblade on AD carries since Ghostblade isn't melee-focused anymore. It also scales reasonably well since flat armor pen is always somewhat relevant, plus the active is amazing. 6 seconds of 40% attack speed plus a mini ghost is fantastic for AD carries.
Triforce has always been good and strong Triforce wielders will likely get stronger post-4.10 given that BT rushers are weaker. IE still has the huge weakness in that it really requires an additional attack speed/crit item to be strong. I think DLift and many players (me included) have overestimated the strength and necessity of BF items post-4.10.
While I don't think keeping jungle timers is really much of a skill, remembering to act on those timers is definitely a skill. In-game timers serve as a constant reminder to players when an important objective is up, which does ultimately lower the skill required.
Still, the Curse Voice fiasco really left Riot with not much choice in this matter.
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Xpecial's agreeing with Lustboy that Thresh, Braum and Nami are gonna be the top 3 supports this patch. He also says that he thinks Sona will make a come back and be top 4, though.
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What a fucking joke.
Seriously.
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are those timers only if you saw the camp cleared? or does it omnisciently update to the precise time just by scouting an empty camp? because the first I have no problem with, the latter case is absolutely bullshit.
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On June 24 2014 18:31 ItsFunToLose wrote:
are those timers only if you saw the camp cleared? or does it omnisciently update to the precise time just by scouting an empty camp? because the first I have no problem with, the latter case is absolutely bullshit.
Of course its only going to be if you saw them cleared Lol.
God forbid this takes away some of the skill of adding 5/6/7 to a timer, or trying to scroll through an aids ridden chat to find said timer.
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What would be the best build currently for jungle Shaco?
I like to go triforce after standard jungle first item, but it feels like I get it too late even when gettign alot of kills.
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On June 24 2014 18:31 ItsFunToLose wrote:
are those timers only if you saw the camp cleared? or does it omnisciently update to the precise time just by scouting an empty camp? because the first I have no problem with, the latter case is absolutely bullshit.
Should be the 1st
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Will it display the buff respawn timer as an icon on the side or a countdown in the HUD or is it like a timer in chat from 5 minutes ago?
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On June 24 2014 18:02 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 17:34 GozoShioda wrote:
All I'm going to say is a lot of the samsung and najin adc's are rushing things like Triforce and Ghostblade in solo q (with only 1 doran blade and no lifesteal items) and they are carrying hard as fuck still even in the early game.
I'll let you formulate your opinion on what that really means. sounds like DRAVEN
I think Triforce could maybe replace BT on draven, but other options are subpar, especially with the way his Q works. You can make up for it with the Sheen proc on TF though.
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On June 24 2014 18:43 obesechicken13 wrote:
Will it display the buff respawn timer as an icon on the side or a countdown in the HUD or is it like a timer in chat from 5 minutes ago?
They even provided a link when they posted...
It's a countdown appearing in the HUD of the scoreboard (eg. when you press tab).
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This with the timers can possibly shift silver&gold soloQ towards a more team oriented gameplay around objectives. I mean that no one gives a shit when you tell them red buff is in a minute lets go there or drag in a minute you guys prepare to come bot, only because this is an information that someone else provided and you don''t trust strangers in soloQ. Nevertheless, when the timings come and someone suggests lets go contest their red in a minute and then you check your own trustworthy info that red is actually really coming in a minute, then this may sound like a plan and people will be willing to go. Something like this. For Bronze, Platinums and above, don't think timers will change anything
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EPT
