EPT[Patch 4.9] RIP Kha'Zix General Discussion - Page 48
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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things. Enough is enough. Let's move along now. -NeoIllusions | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Against a lane like Renekton I'll try to farm till I can tp back with Warden's Mail (so first 1000-1100 gold for ward and pots), at higher levels I prob wouldn't be able to do it since they'd be more aggressive. Not sure if Fiora warrants it. I'm not sure how to play the match-up since I've never had it and I don't know the cooldowns nor what Fiora maxes first. If they're low enough she can maybe disengage and abuse Hiten Style being on cd, otherwise try to bait out her E and stun her during that time to cut from the buff's duration if you can afford it. Post-6 don't hesitate to fight outside your minions and near hers so your ult heals you way more while she can't sustain from Hydra's passive. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 08 2014 03:59 Goumindong wrote: Again back to the whole ":roll: its W2C saying totally generic things which don't help anyone or provide insight into the game" 25% attack speed isn't much; the raw stats on the item are very low and the effective price of the attack speed for your carry very high unless you're scaling off MP/5 and Move Speed. In terms of "now stats" you're paying 1120 gold over Codex for 5 AP and 25% attack speed for your carry. That is not a good deal, its not even a great deal if you've got an AoE shield and multiple auto attackers. I mean lets compare to the other marginally cheap AP/CDR/Move speed item: Spooky Ghosts. SG has similar move speed, but 50 more AP, and a pick/chase/scout active for only 600 gold more. For Karma, waiting on SG compared to Censor will provide her a lot more oomph in terms of chase/pick and also total team fight effect (bigger shields and Q's). Janna and Lulu probably have the same effect. If we're talking about "Oh noes OP items", Ardent Censor probably isn't going to be one of them, the only champions who can really use it are Lulu and Janna because they provide auto attack steroids and are primarily peel supports. That is, their auto attack buffs increase the value of attack speed and the champions themselves don't really need that much raw stats. If Attack Speed really was that valuable in and of itself, then Nidalee would be a strong support because she can perma 60% attack speed with just 30% CDR. Or Nunu would be top tier duo lane due to blood boil. But frankly there are four AD's who don't have a hard, or effective attack speed buff in their kit (Cait, Corki, Vayne, Ashe), one of which isn't played, one of which rushes attack speed, and one of which doesn't really need attack speed until late due to ability weaving. Only one of which has harder attack speed than damage scaling. Attack speed buffs and effective attack speed buffs reduce the effectiveness of attack speed. And the amount of attack speed we are talking about is super cheap. There aren't that many other support champions on which this makes sense since they all need raw stats(maybe nami since she peels so hard with CDR) And there aren't that many AD's who benefit a lot from the item anyway because so few need attack speed so hard. edit: Aside, the bevy of support items with CDR on them is kinda annoying. Because you build your GP/10 item which has 10-20% CDR and then you've got 5-10% from masteries and you're at 15-30% CDR right there. Then every other fucking support item has 10-20% CDR on it. Which you can't use because you're basically capped after one support item (or CDR boots), making the "cheap efficient items the support wants to buy" have a whole bunch of wasted stats. I've had solo queue games where I just got perma attack speed buffed by Nunus (back when it was an insane 60+% buff) and Nidalee supports and while back then support gold was worse so I felt like they did nothing else, I loved being so much stronger than everyone else. Support nid sucked but it wasn't the E that made her suck. She just has no CC and used to not be able to buy much AP even KSing every kill. 25% attack speed is kinda good if you can reliably shield multiple members with it that can use the aspd buff. Many team comps these days have Kayles so it's likely more than half the team can benefit from aspd. Top: Changed a lot. Was Jayce. Then Garen but TP felt abusive, so then I switched to Darius. Jungle: tank: Sejuani. Not a tank: was Rengar but nerfs, then lee but he has an overall low win rate. Now I don't have one D: Mid: Lux/Malz. Jayce if possible. Team hates Malz so I usually go Lux. ADC: Trist Support: Janna | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
Free elo champions are champions that allow you to beat players that are better than you, usually grossly overpowered champions like close to their release date or champions that greatly benefit a change in the meta game that no1 has caught on to yet. now, i wouldn't say warwick is a free elo champion, but they do exist | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On June 08 2014 06:41 TheHumanSensation wrote: Conversely, can we agree on the existence on reverse free elo champs? Memory of previous discussions here would suggest not. reverse free elo? as in characters so bad you can't win with? | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On June 08 2014 04:23 Kinie wrote: So what is everyone's "pocket pick" when it comes to solo Q? The champion that you try to go to if you get forced into a specific role, no matter how good/bad they might be currently? Here's my list: Top: Riven Jungle: Vi Mid: Ziggs ADC: Ezreal Support: Leona Top: Malzahar or Quinn Jungle: I main jungle, so it doesn't really bother me. Something interesting I found out is that my most successful junglers (barring Lee) are Shaco, Eve, Twitch, and Rengar. Stealth broken? Mid: Malzahar or Katarina ADC: Sivir Support: Zyra or Thresh | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
Jungle: Udyr Mid: lol ADC: lol Bot: Taric | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Mid: Kennen Jungle: Warwick ADC: Sivir Support: Taric | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 08 2014 05:50 obesechicken13 wrote: I've had solo queue games where I just got perma attack speed buffed by Nunus (back when it was an insane 60+% buff) and Nidalee supports and while back then support gold was worse so I felt like they did nothing else, I loved being so much stronger than everyone else. Support nid sucked but it wasn't the E that made her suck. She just has no CC and used to not be able to buy much AP even KSing every kill. 25% attack speed is kinda good if you can reliably shield multiple members with it that can use the aspd buff. Many team comps these days have Kayles so it's likely more than half the team can benefit from aspd. Sure, but in Season 2/3 supports didn't have enough money to be much more than a buff for their allies. While we tend to think about scaling in a "smooth curve" sense because it makes it easy to talk about individual champion progression and item purchases in truth scaling is team relative and discontinuous. For every second a tank stays alive taking damage on the front line of a team fight, the tanks DPS is able to deal damage. For every additional second the probability that the enemy teams DPS drops increases (and then the remaining tank becomes even more valuable when that happens) This is why, despite the "traditional" season 3 supports having decent scaling they were pushed out in favor of the "non-traditional" supports. In Season 3, a Leona who was behind, or not ahead never achieved a tankiness advantage significant enough to be valuable to her team. Dying in 2 seconds rather than 1 second didn't do much. But being 50% tankier means that instead of dying in 2 you die in 6. And that can turn a fight in a big way. Similarly, the ability to do more damage faster has a disproportionate impact on the fight and this is one reason why we are seeing, primarily, tank/CC or damage/CC supports rather than the old school "buff/peel" supports. Last season i exploited those strengths on Nunu and Janna support. Nunu against any auto attack forcused AD to shut them down with snowballs and peel with ult. Janna against assassins. 25% attack speed boost to my AD would have been really strong on most supports at the time (though maybe not for the money and maybe not with the other really good support items available) because the entire "thing" of a support was "how do i get by without the cash to buy powerful scaling items while also not losing lane" Now its "who best snowballs a duo lane because we gotta get that cash money" | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
Top: Swain (but I never have to top thankfully) Jungle: Zac Mid: Syndra or Zyra or Lissandra ADC: Varus Support: Nami | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 08 2014 06:41 TheHumanSensation wrote: Conversely, can we agree on the existence on reverse free elo champs? Memory of previous discussions here would suggest not. Of course there are, just tl hipsterism likes to pretend it doesn't exist. Brand and Urgot would come to mind. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
Mid: Ziggs, Viktor Support: Karma ADC: Caitlyn Jungle: Eve | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On June 08 2014 07:30 cLutZ wrote: Of course there are, just tl hipsterism likes to pretend it doesn't exist. Brand and Urgot would come to mind. Literally nothing wrong with Urgot or Brand if you arent a retard with them lol. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 08 2014 07:42 arb wrote: Literally nothing wrong with Urgot or Brand if you arent a retard with them lol. That's weird, its almost like you are attacking a strawman (you are). Did I say they were terrible champions? No, I said that in order to gain ELO with them, you have to be better with those champions than you would have to be with another, more powerful, champion. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Jungle: Shy Mid: Fizz ADC: Caitlyn Sup: Thresh | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Jungle: Lee Sin Mid: Diana ADC: Never not Lucian Support: I dont support :F | ||
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