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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things.
Enough is enough. Let's move along now.
-NeoIllusions |
11589 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:39 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:31 Ketara wrote:
By making the power level of items more similar to each other, you are by design reducing the number of cases where one item is the best choice, and increasing the number of cases where items have equivalent power levels and player choice becomes meaningful.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
As an example, I think most everybody agrees that there's more item diversity for APs than there are for ADs, and this is exactly how the AP items work. Ketara, your difference in opinion comes from your consistent optimism that Riot's design goals will match up with their implementation, contrasted with yamato's consistent pessimism that they'll fuck up the numbers on one or more of the items and create the imbalanced game he's talking about. Conceptually, you're right, Riot's stated goals could lead to more diversity, it's just that their track record is not necessarily all that good on this point. Though I agree with you that it's silly to try and assess this without numbers at this point.
You're right, I am very skeptical about these changes, and I think I have a right to be.
I will cease posting, however, because I don't want to turn the thread negative. I don't post very often, but the discussion about Riot's intent with these changes piqued my interest because I've been trying to figure out what their goals were since S2, and I rarely feel like they meet up with what they say they intend to do.
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United States47024 Posts
I'd actually love to see the new Bloodthirster passive used with Hydra lifesteal, but buying both just sounds suicidal most of the time.
It's a shame they couldn't put that passive on something smaller and more affordable.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Ok, here's a serious suggestion:
Make a new thread, we can call it Yamato's design university or whatever and that thread will be dedicated to making suggestions to riot how they should change LoL
and this thread will be about discussing what is good and how to play the game as it is
well, or we could just move all balance complaints to Shykio QQ thread
but I think it's kinda weird to have both balance complaining and game discussion in the same thread because what usually happens is like
person X says:
Wow, I think Yasuo is really strong atm. Tried him top lane and could actually beat Jax 1v1 going vamp+statikk shiv!
person Y responds:
Yeah Yasuo is broken as fuck dude, the problem is his E it has cd of only like 0.5 which is fucking broken they need to nerf that
all other persons Z just facepalm
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There are champions that can go BT+Hydra+LW as a 3 damage item combo, they just didn't really want to before.
Maybe they will want to now, who knows. I think the new proposed passive sounds pretty neat too, will be interesting to see the PBE numbers.
On June 05 2014 23:50 Scip wrote:
Ok, here's a serious suggestion:
Make a new thread, we can call it Yamato's design university or whatever and that thread will be dedicated to making suggestions to riot how they should change LoL
and this thread will be about discussing what is good and how to play the game as it is
well, or we could just move all balance complaints to Shykio QQ thread
but I think it's kinda weird to have both balance complaining and game discussion in the same thread because what usually happens is like
person X says:
Wow, I think Yasuo is really strong atm. Tried him top lane and could actually beat Jax 1v1 going vamp+statikk shiv!
person Y responds:
Yeah Yasuo is broken as fuck dude, the problem is his E it has cd of only like 0.5 which is fucking broken they need to nerf that
all other persons Z just facepalm
This is such an accurate representation of why I dislike reading GD a lot of the time. I thought there was some big announcement about how the hyperbole pointless balance whine / making a statement with no evidence or examples / etc posts were going to be moderated against, but it never seemed to happen.
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11589 Posts
Obviously people don't agree with me, I'm fine with that, you all can move on.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:48 Nos- wrote:
I wonder how the changes will possibly affect other lanes
I'd have to wait for the numbers but that shield might be good on riven and lane'zix, I'd consider it good on zed but botrk is too important for him. I can't imagine this BT shield being able to tank that much though, like an AA from a zed if I had to guess.
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On June 05 2014 23:53 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:48 Nos- wrote:
I wonder how the changes will possibly affect other lanes I'd have to wait for the numbers but that shield might be good on riven and lane'zix, I'd consider it good on zed but botrk is too important for him. I can't imagine this BT shield being able to tank that much though, like an AA from a zed if I had to guess.
lee sin could possibly go hydra/bt/lw and be a 1v1 monster, although I guess most toplaners would get bork anyways.
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Also re: Scips comment.
Couldn't the PBE thread and a balance discussion thread be the same thread?
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United States47024 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:53 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:48 Nos- wrote:
I wonder how the changes will possibly affect other lanes I'd have to wait for the numbers but that shield might be good on riven and lane'zix, I'd consider it good on zed but botrk is too important for him.
Well the other awkward thing about it on melee is that it's harder to pre-stack the shield before fights. Because of the relative resist values on creeps, you actually want to pre-charge it with a big hit on a creep that gives you a larger shield going into a fight.
Also, one thing that might be pretty awkward to handle is how it interacts with crit. You'd pre-charge quite a large shield if you crit a creep before a fight starts.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:52 yamato77 wrote:
Obviously people don't agree with me, I'm fine with that, you all can move on.
I used your name only because you are the last one who posted about game design
maybe something like ClutZ's Beautiful Mind would be more appropriate
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On June 05 2014 23:50 Scip wrote:
Ok, here's a serious suggestion:
Make a new thread, we can call it Yamato's design university or whatever and that thread will be dedicated to making suggestions to riot how they should change LoL
and this thread will be about discussing what is good and how to play the game as it is
well, or we could just move all balance complaints to Shykio QQ thread
but I think it's kinda weird to have both balance complaining and game discussion in the same thread because what usually happens is like
person X says:
Wow, I think Yasuo is really strong atm. Tried him top lane and could actually beat Jax 1v1 going vamp+statikk shiv!
person Y responds:
Yeah Yasuo is broken as fuck dude, the problem is his E it has cd of only like 0.5 which is fucking broken they need to nerf that
all other persons Z just facepalm
it'll be liek the second QQ thread that nobody actually reads but people think they are being listened to so its all good
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United States47024 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:59 Slayer91 wrote:
it'll be liek the second QQ thread that nobody actually reads but people think they are being listened to so its all good
So it'd be like the first QQ thread.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
like yango please have you never heard like annoying girls talk?
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On June 05 2014 23:58 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:52 yamato77 wrote:
Obviously people don't agree with me, I'm fine with that, you all can move on. I used your name only because you are the last one who posted about game design maybe something like ClutZ's Beautiful Mind would be more appropriate
Thanks bro. I appreciate it 
But seriously, if gd is not for design and balance talk, what is it for? Sharing anecdotes about Warwick and Poppy support? People don't even seem to like sufficiency's data aggregation posts.
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11589 Posts
On June 05 2014 23:58 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:52 yamato77 wrote:
Obviously people don't agree with me, I'm fine with that, you all can move on. I used your name only because you are the last one who posted about game design maybe something like ClutZ's Beautiful Mind would be more appropriate
I don't really mind that you pointed out that my thoughts were obviously on game design, but I do mind the implication that this shouldn't be talked about here. I guess if I want to talk about design philosophy, I should just go make my own thread so people in GD can ignore it and whine about GD being awful instead of engaging in any actual, you know, discussion in General Discussion.
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The new BT sounds like it could be pretty sweet on Riven/Renekton/Fiora, I love the idea of overheal. Maybe melee ADCs will finally be good!
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 06 2014 00:11 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:58 Scip wrote:On June 05 2014 23:52 yamato77 wrote:
Obviously people don't agree with me, I'm fine with that, you all can move on. I used your name only because you are the last one who posted about game design maybe something like ClutZ's Beautiful Mind would be more appropriate I don't really mind that you pointed out that my thoughts were obviously on game design, but I do mind the implication that this shouldn't be talked about here. I guess if I want to talk about design philosophy, I should just go make my own thread so people in GD can ignore it and whine about GD being awful instead of engaging in any actual, you know, discussion in General Discussion.
Where would you have us talk about the actual fucking game though
for the reasons I think I rather crudely stated earlier having both kinds of discussions in the same thread is a no-no
and making a new thread for what is essentially a glorified balance whine with a pinch of "what I find fun in games" every time a patch comes out seems rather silly
Ketara's suggestion of making exclusively the PBE thread for balance/design discussions sounds good
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11589 Posts
If you guys think I was just balance whining, you've obviously just bought Riot's PR lock stock and barrel and I have nothing else to say to you.
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United States47024 Posts
You weren't but you also weren't contributing anything that anyone who reads this thread semi-regularly hasn't heart a hundred times before.
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On June 05 2014 23:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:53 Fusilero wrote:On June 05 2014 23:48 Nos- wrote:
I wonder how the changes will possibly affect other lanes I'd have to wait for the numbers but that shield might be good on riven and lane'zix, I'd consider it good on zed but botrk is too important for him. Well the other awkward thing about it on melee is that it's harder to pre-stack the shield before fights. Because of the relative resist values on creeps, you actually want to pre-charge it with a big hit on a creep that gives you a larger shield going into a fight. Also, one thing that might be pretty awkward to handle is how it interacts with crit. You'd pre-charge quite a large shield if you crit a creep before a fight starts.
could be good for a hard splitpusher though
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EPT
