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On May 29 2014 08:13 onlywonderboy wrote:
Oh I don't disagree. But I literally read the title and knew there was no way it could actually explain things adequately.
I don't think that's true. When I look back at the discussion we had on TL revolving around draft phase and interwoven phases I felt if one where to take those arguments forming them into a report you could get a very well rounded picture on at least the nature of the draft phase. We even went into detail how the draft phase influences in game decisions.
The exact same can be said about item progression and choice. We had a very lengthy discussion about this when the support itemization was first being spoken about and have had many smaller discussions since. All of these discussions form a very nice overview on what makes choice happen and how it influences the game.
I've read scientific journals that explain concepts I was unfamiliar with in order to read the rest of the text in a more detailed and concise way than this blog. These are journals explaining complex concepts in simplest terms just to continue on with it's content. Honestly see absolutely see no reason why a game company or employee could not do the same thing for their own Design. Even if there is no unified design value one could still piece together a better, more comprehensive and detailed brief than what I just read. My informal report I just wrote for vacation work that's barely 10 pages is more professional than this.
Anyway I'm just severely disappointed in them. I know by now I most likely look like a Riot/LoL hater from the recent months of posting but I really did/do enjoy League and really wanted Riot to change or at least continue to make it as enjoyable as it was years ago. Reading this just made me lose the final hope I had. It reminds me of those one liners that people claim as "wisdom" those one liners barely scratch of actually impacting any real wisdom. It's unprofessional marketing trash.
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I was watching a Meteos's 7-day-ago vod of his stream which he was duoing with hafu. He said that his team was getting shat on a lot lately. 3 days later C9 went 2-2 in superweek.
It makes me think that maybe C9 is not actually immortal, and the wins are not really flukes. Teams can actually beat C9
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On May 29 2014 17:47 canikizu wrote:
I was watching a Meteos's 7-day-ago vod of his stream which he was duoing with hafu. He said that his team was getting shat on a lot lately. 3 days later C9 went 2-2 in superweek.
It makes me think that maybe C9 is not actually immortal, and the wins are not really flukes. Teams can actually beat C9
I'd need to see at least a month of C9 stagnating before I take any credence in that. Hai is probably still mega rusty and while he's "healthy" now, he probably has a while to go before he's normal again.
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On May 29 2014 14:06 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 13:48 Slusher wrote:
I love how Scarra is now obsessed with Viktor lol He's wrecking Mancloud's Leblanc right now
Fuck and I missed that? Especially since LB is such a bitch match-up ("ground-targeted, travelling skillshots? OHOHOHO"), damn. 
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On May 29 2014 19:17 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 14:06 GolemMadness wrote:On May 29 2014 13:48 Slusher wrote:
I love how Scarra is now obsessed with Viktor lol He's wrecking Mancloud's Leblanc right now Fuck and I missed that? Especially since LB is such a bitch match-up ("ground-targeted, travelling skillshots? OHOHOHO"), damn.
couldn't you use his power transfer to help you in that lane? its easy to use power transfer to last hit or trade to use the shield to protect you while you get some last hits or autos off. Death ray is good but its weaker in terms of base damage and use in trading especially with its shorter range for guaranteed hits as its dodgable at its longer ranges. seems like it'd be the preferable skill in a lane you are going to have to be at least fighting back so you aren't just rolling over and trying to last hit under tower the whole lane.
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On May 29 2014 19:49 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 19:17 Alaric wrote:On May 29 2014 14:06 GolemMadness wrote:On May 29 2014 13:48 Slusher wrote:
I love how Scarra is now obsessed with Viktor lol He's wrecking Mancloud's Leblanc right now Fuck and I missed that? Especially since LB is such a bitch match-up ("ground-targeted, travelling skillshots? OHOHOHO"), damn. couldn't you use his power transfer to help you in that lane? its easy to use power transfer to last hit or trade to use the shield to protect you while you get some last hits or autos off. Death ray is good but its weaker in terms of base damage and use in trading especially with its shorter range for guaranteed hits as its dodgable at its longer ranges. seems like it'd be the preferable skill in a lane you are going to have to be at least fighting back so you aren't just rolling over and trying to last hit under tower the whole lane.
lol with augment death, which you should be getting anyway, death ray has one of the highest base damages in the game.
I think maybe maxing Q vs Lb might be alright but chances are she's going to unload on you before you can do anything so maxing E is probably still smarter
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Maxing Q first always sucks. Never do it.
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On May 29 2014 20:00 GolemMadness wrote:
Maxing Q first always sucks. Never do it.
I think a big problem that should be addressed on Viktor is his E is a ridiculously high costing spell like, 110 mana wtf?
Ziggs has almost the same wave clear for 90 lolol. Makes poking with him in an extended fight really costly if you miss a couple times, even though its brutal when you do hit i guess.
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On May 29 2014 19:57 arb wrote:
lol with augment death, which you should be getting anyway, death ray has one of the highest base damages in the game.
I think maybe maxing Q vs Lb might be alright but chances are she's going to unload on you before you can do anything so maxing E is probably still smarter
Do you typically get your augment early in lane though? i'd imagine once you have the money to spend a grand on an item that is pure offense like that you could have picked up a grail and some hp or something. Haven't played viktor since his release so i don't really know whats done nowadays. i just know that from the math, even counting the shield as half as effective as a heal, viktors power transfer is an improved transfusion with a slightly longer CD at max level. you could even power transfer a creep as LB or assorted other mobile bullies start to try to go in on you and you could get an auto or two before retreating.
i know death augment gives good damage but it seems like gravity would be best from a stats point of view, though i don't know the math for which gives more dps, the 10% cdr or the 33% bonus damage on laser. certainly the 10% cdr when you max power transfer though.
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^ you one-shot the caster minions with level 3 E and 2 drings or level 4 E and dring once you get the augment, and you need like 1-2 autos per melee minion to kill them (and with a bit more AP you oneshot them too).
Viktor's range is a huge weakness for him because he only has 3 damaging spells, one of them is 600 range, the other one is on a long-ish cd, and his ult has all the bugs and oddities of a "pet", including on movement while being hugely reliant on it to damage (needs to follow people around). You can't just say "I've got more CDR I do more damage" because when you're in range to Q something you're in range to get utterly shat on as an immobile squishy (unless you can just unload on them but for that Death > Gravity).
Gravity simply isn't worth the slot and gold because mana and mp5 are overvalued stats, and the range advantage on W, while nice, can't compete with Death.
You only get the shield when the projectile comes back, so you'll take damage before you get the shield. It's also hard to get a stun off (usually you can't put it down reactively, for example dropping it on the W mark to make her stay near you, because of the silence's duration) and the long cd on E and lack of mobility to escape the chain's second part means that he's even worse than Ziggs vs LB.
Q has less range than your auto range, that's already lower than average. I'd rather max E, get Augment:Death and one-shot the wave from level 7. If I max Q I'll just have to cower under the tower and let LB push (can't hide in the minion wave forever, esp. if she maxes W and can just W to the caster minions, one-shot them, and have a clear shot at you).
Prior to level 6 she shouldn't be able to kill you easily (use E at level 1 to push so you hit 2 first) so use that to farm and have your augment and pots asap (ideally a second dring for the HP buffer) then let her use spells on the wave and one-shot it (if you walk up to the wave to one-shot it it's the same as trying to harass her and have her W your E and harm you for free).
Never tried building Chalice on Viktor. That's like my 4th or 5th item (augment, deathcap or zhonya, sometimes the 2nd, void staff), he can get by if he gets blue buff and would still get oom fast even with chalice. And I hate delaying the power spikes of a midgame oriented champion so much, especially the 1k augment mark.
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So, after doing 40 games with chat restriction i just got another 70 games. Fun times.
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On May 29 2014 20:07 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 19:57 arb wrote:
lol with augment death, which you should be getting anyway, death ray has one of the highest base damages in the game.
I think maybe maxing Q vs Lb might be alright but chances are she's going to unload on you before you can do anything so maxing E is probably still smarter Do you typically get your augment early in lane though? i'd imagine once you have the money to spend a grand on an item that is pure offense like that you could have picked up a grail and some hp or something. Haven't played viktor since his release so i don't really know whats done nowadays. i just know that from the math, even counting the shield as half as effective as a heal, viktors power transfer is an improved transfusion with a slightly longer CD at max level. you could even power transfer a creep as LB or assorted other mobile bullies start to try to go in on you and you could get an auto or two before retreating. i know death augment gives good damage but it seems like gravity would be best from a stats point of view, though i don't know the math for which gives more dps, the 10% cdr or the 33% bonus damage on laser. certainly the 10% cdr when you max power transfer though.
Usually if i remember correctly you should back @ 1800~ gold(pretty reasonable if youre last hitting well) pick up augment + boots/ring/chalice whatever.
You should get death augment every game no questions asked. the other ones literally pale in comparison
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On May 29 2014 20:13 Alaric wrote:
You only get the shield when the projectile comes back, so you'll take damage before you get the shield. It's also hard to get a stun off (usually you can't put it down reactively, for example dropping it on the W mark to make her stay near you, because of the silence's duration) and the long cd on E and lack of mobility to escape the chain's second part means that he's even worse than Ziggs vs LB.
Q has less range than your auto range, that's already lower than average. I'd rather max E, get Augment:Death and one-shot the wave from level 7. If I max Q I'll just have to cower under the tower and let LB push (can't hide in the minion wave forever, esp. if she maxes W and can just W to the caster minions, one-shot them, and have a clear shot at you).
Prior to level 6 she shouldn't be able to kill you easily (use E at level 1 to push so you hit 2 first) so use that to farm and have your augment and pots asap (ideally a second dring for the HP buffer) then let her use spells on the wave and one-shot it (if you walk up to the wave to one-shot it it's the same as trying to harass her and have her W your E and harm you for free).
Never tried building Chalice on Viktor. That's like my 4th or 5th item (augment, deathcap or zhonya, sometimes the 2nd, void staff), he can get by if he gets blue buff and would still get oom fast even with chalice. And I hate delaying the power spikes of a midgame oriented champion so much, especially the 1k augment mark.
If she's trying to max distortion to punish you not maxing your clear spell, couldn't you just stand to the side of the waves a bit so she has to pick between clearing and doing any damage to you? if she jumps up without getting any initial damage off on you i can't imagine she could win a trade in which you use your power transfer as shes gliding into range and doesn't hit you with that damage. she wouldn't be able to clear too many waves in a row without needing jungle interference or a recall and give yourself either an advantage or your jungler a chance for a counter gank/ sidelane gank? does Viktor DO anything with clearing the wave at 7? or does he just clear well and not much else? without a couple levels in your gravity field i can't imagine he's very good at ganking other lanes being so immobile and all. is his gameplan just farm and try to get a big item first?
EDIT: also with her maxing her distortion and you for power transfer wouldn't you hold the power in the matchup with a stronger spell on a much shorter CD? she'd have to play pretty far back when distortion is down yeah?
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^ if you sit on the side of the wave, PX, you just yell at her "PLEASE DESTROY ME" because it's entirely on her to screw up her skillshots with nothing for you to hide behind. And you lose versus LB (I think total burst is higher for Viktor? But you can't count that because she'll dodge W, part of R, and maybe E, and her Q would come back off cd before R expires so you'd have to add that).
I actually have some success roaming because even though I'm not gonna dive (unless it's like blue side diving bot so I can show up from behind and position R right on top of them and chase without tanking the tower). E has pretty good range total and early on people don't have enough MS to outrun it. Even top laners are killable if your ult is up, when lanes are pushed and I know where wards are, I can either have my teammate bait and come from behind (the bait also means no dash to get out of W) or at least scare them enough to give space to my laners. Since unless it's like LB, Zed, etc. you can walk up and one-shot the wave while it's walking in, you kill it early and don't miss much farm from the next one if you come back soon enough.
Even if you last hit well it's a bit late though, I usually try to back around level 6 if I think I can hit it first, especially against champions who won't build chalice (well, it was the case before, with LB, Ahri, etc. building codex instead because they wanted DFG, but not with the ubiquitous chalice... >_>) so I can have the additional damage for a level 6 all-in.
Plus it means I can start one-shotting the wave a bit earlier, helps with roaming (I end up roaming a bunch with Viktor because he's so immobile I dislike sitting under the enemy tower, even if he can deny/punish well between E being a vector and W's radius, and the delayed damage on his ult and part of E means that it's not too easy to dive as you can't afford to chase to keep R in range when there's a tower, and he's also a mid I often do decent on so I can afford to make plays over catch up more often).
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On May 29 2014 20:13 Sponkz wrote:
So, after doing 40 games with chat restriction i just got another 70 games. Fun times.
Ouch. Chat restriction is tough, you have to write Alaric-style walls of text everytime you want to communicate with your team.
I had a game with 4 out of 5 players on restricted chat that went almost an hour long. Communicating lategame with one message every four minutes is a game in itself.
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On May 29 2014 20:23 Alaric wrote:
^ if you sit on the side of the wave, PX, you just yell at her "PLEASE DESTROY ME" because it's entirely on her to screw up her skillshots with nothing for you to hide behind. And you lose versus LB (I think total burst is higher for Viktor? But you can't count that because she'll dodge W, part of R, and maybe E, and her Q would come back off cd before R expires so you'd have to add that).
In my head i imagine standing at the side like standing on the opposite side of the wave as her about 600 units from their melee wave. she'd have to be inside the creep wave in order to jump to you, which would make it so the chains can't possibly land until she deliberately walks out in the open which is broadcasting her intentions?
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Oh, yeah. But in that case it's annoying to last hit because you only have 525 auto range, and 600 (eg. 500) on Q. You end up making it rather obvious when you're going for a last hit and it makes last hitting ranged minions a pain against oppressive opponents (as arb said, gotta hate Ziggs' Q spam when you have actual mana costs and a cooldown on E).
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On May 29 2014 20:31 Alaric wrote:
Oh, yeah. But in that case it's annoying to last hit because you only have 525 auto range, and 600 (eg. 500) on Q. You end up making it rather obvious when you're going for a last hit and it makes last hitting ranged minions a pain against oppressive opponents (as arb said, gotta hate Ziggs' Q spam when you have actual mana costs and a cooldown on E).
well those 600 units would be really 500 units as thats roughly her range on distortion as well she gets a bit more with the aoe like 125 or something is the radius? she only had a 100 unit range in which she can aim her distortion to hit you without walking out of the creep wave and thats a small enough range you can make it hard to predict by not standing still its the width of an ezreal mystic shot, which you can dodge by walking as well. and standing in the creep waves she can't jump back to her distortion without maintaining creep aggro which gives you a little bit of an advantage with the shield right? it wouldn't be a simple matchup definitely a skill matchup, but it doesn't seem un-winnable with power transfer max especially since if she misses a distortion she's your bitch for 2 power transfers. there would be no point to rushing a death augment with that build though, so you'd have to find a good early buy in its place for your style of play.
EDIT: and then if she's ever jumping on you with distortion max she's at most hitting only a couple ranged minions. so she's not shoving the lane, letting you continue to last hit without worrying about the tower.
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On May 29 2014 20:23 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 20:13 Sponkz wrote:
So, after doing 40 games with chat restriction i just got another 70 games. Fun times. Ouch. Chat restriction is tough, you have to write Alaric-style walls of text everytime you want to communicate with your team. I had a game with 4 out of 5 players on restricted chat that went almost an hour long. Communicating lategame with one message every four minutes is a game in itself.
It's like repeat offenders. You barely need any evidence at all to convict the second time.
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EPT
