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On April 22 2014 14:43 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 13:56 arb wrote:On April 22 2014 13:07 xes wrote:On April 22 2014 12:42 arb wrote:
Does Curse voice show you the timer on baron and dragon if you cant see them? what about enemy buffs? Only if you have vision of them going down. But its actually a pretty big multitasking skill to be able to keep up with this. I'd liken it to an auto-inject bot in SC2 (or an auto worker-rally bot in BW). It technically doesn't do anything that you couldn't achieve, but it's definitely a huge advantage to people who don't have it. Riot's reasoning behind it is totally bogus, because "calculations based only on the info you have" could be applied to Flash timers (do a base stat calculation to figure out basic runes+masteries (or look it up via lolnexus h4h4)), Ultimate timers, etc. Having to memorize buff times might be considered "unnecessary burden of knowledge" the same way that rallying workers is likely "unnecessary multitask taxing," but if that is the case then Riot should add it into their own game. 3rd party mods that affect how you play in game is terrible, and its double terrible if it is pushed through by Giant Esports Conglomerate Moneybags. honestly if its just keeping track of things you can see i literally dont see how its a problem, saves the hassle of scrolling up to get counters, but its not an advantage imo. it doesnt take hardly any multi task to keep up with timers, add 5/6/7 do it while youre walking or in base, then say it, time buffs while youre doing them its not even difficult, but maybe all these years of broodwar have spoiled me who knows. everyone can literally do the same thing as the client by adding 5/6/7, flash timers is a little more into the iffy zone, if it can track runes/cdr and all that though i think. Hassle is like the essence of videogames. It imposes skill floors on being a high level players such as APM and pure reaction time. Its just like athleticism in sports. Do you think Lebron James is the most skilled and dedicated basketball player on Earth? No, he just happens to be a skilled and dedicated person who was blessed with essentially the perfect body for playing basketball (which likely is the reason he dedicated himself to the sport to begin with). Would implementing league-wide timers turn LOL into a no-skill game? Absolutely not, but it is a way to stratify the playerbase, in a different way than pure mechanics, or purely good shotcalling.
Plus this is like playing with a tutor on, back when people make tutors for video games (maybe they still do?)
Without doing any funky calculations, you could easily change it so when it automatically calculates timers, it also informs you they're coming up "Your red buff is spawning in 50s" "Enemy blue is spawning in 50s" or "Top ward despawns in 30s"
These are something that people have built internal game sense and skill for which this removes.
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why not go a step further and give u input prompts, like if you're playing yasuo and a skillshot is coming at you the screen just flashes W!
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It's one thing to 'easily scroll through chat and add 5/6/7' and another thing to be able to peek at the corner of your screen(or wherever) at any given time and get that information instantly. Also remember that the vast majority of the playerbase is 'bad' and don't time shit as is, or lose track of it(I'm sure we've all typed some times into chat only to forget to make use of them at some point in our League careers, this basically makes that impossible to do). For them it's a huge advantage over their similarly skilled competition, and will essentially make them better players(kind of like certain mods in WoW).
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Okay so I have curse voice and here's my appreciation of the situation. I'm not one of the better league players on TL but I ended last season at Diamond 4 mmr, stuck in Plat 1 clamping on a 6 game winstreak, so I'd like to think I understand summoner's rift fairly well.
Perhaps it is because I'm a jungler, but seriously, it takes 3 seconds to press Z scroll up and check for baron timer, and once you see it you can't forget. I do not understand why anyone would bitch about this one. Having the timer shown there does absolutely nothing for me. I do not even know what the hotkeys for blue or red timer are, and am so used to just typing it in chat anyway, same for wards. If a player can tunnel vision a free kill in on the support and tank in order to chase the adc to his fountain then honestly the baron timer won't do much.
On, the ult timers. Now that shit is pretty broken. There's situations in which I've delayed ganks by 10-15 seconds because I saw my TF/Shen's ult was about to be up. Sure, I'd ask in most situatiosn anyway, but if the shen/tf player is a toxic asshole (but still wants to win) it is incredibly helpful.
The voice chat is really nothing. I've ran into a stranger in normals (because I don't feel like playing ranked for now) and we talked in champ select, then I left the call. We both came out of lane 8-0 (him mid, me adc) and the game ended there anyway.
My only problem with it really are the ult counters. If you can get the benefits of teamwork without having to deal with a bunch of idiots in solo queue, you're definitely one step ahead; but that should've been part of the game since the beginning.
I really doubt the dragon/baron timers are important at all. It's nice but honestly, it is only saving you 3 seconds.
TLDR You're all complaining about the wrong thing.
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when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying.
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it's saving a diamond jungler 3 seconds but it's giving 80-90% of the player base a timer that they didn't have before.
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Like I said before, forcing people to download 3rd party programs to be on even footing is retarded.
Doesn't matter how small, or how large of an advantage it is, if it gives an advantage in game it should be banned.
If it should be in game let riot do it.
Allowing Curse Voice is opening a Pandora's box that should be left closed.
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Would riot allow pros to use curse voice or other 3rd party programs in the LCS? If the answer to that is no, then all those programs should be banned nuff said.
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On April 22 2014 15:56 IMoperator wrote:
when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying.
a game with a pro scene should only be balanced around top level of play. and second win rates for champs with high difficult level will always be lower. elise never had a great winrate in solo q was she not op?
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On April 22 2014 16:13 IamPryda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 15:56 IMoperator wrote:
when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying. a game with a pro scene should only be balanced around top level of play. and second win rates for champs with high difficult level will always be lower. elise never had a great winrate in solo q was she not op?
riot doesnt really balance for the pro scene only though...
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On April 22 2014 16:18 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 16:13 IamPryda wrote:On April 22 2014 15:56 IMoperator wrote:
when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying. a game with a pro scene should only be balanced around top level of play. and second win rates for champs with high difficult level will always be lower. elise never had a great winrate in solo q was she not op? riot doesnt really balance for the pro scene only though...
So they shouldn't have nerfed Elise? Even though she was First pick/ban everywhere for months?
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On April 22 2014 16:29 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 16:18 IMoperator wrote:On April 22 2014 16:13 IamPryda wrote:On April 22 2014 15:56 IMoperator wrote:
when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying. a game with a pro scene should only be balanced around top level of play. and second win rates for champs with high difficult level will always be lower. elise never had a great winrate in solo q was she not op? riot doesnt really balance for the pro scene only though... So they shouldn't have nerfed Elise? Even though she was First pick/ban everywhere for months?
she wasn't nerfed that badly in the first place, she's still used extensively in pro play. So sure, maybe she was too strong, but it didn't even matter to 99%+ of the playerbase in the first place. Nerfing leblanc for pro play will just make her even more useless in solo queue. If you're looking to nerf champions for pro play, why not champions like renekton or lucian which have been dominating for months in both pro play and solo queue, because obviously those champs are good in anybody's hands, not just pros?
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are runes on sale? and what are adc runes nowadays?
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Dunno, personally I think Renekton kind of blows in solo que right now. His main advantage is being able to bully melee tops because he can push and deal damage while clearing (and healing), but he doesn't bring much to the table aside from that. If you survive without falling too behind in cs, like almost any other top laner is going to scale harder than him, provided your team spreads out so they don't get wrecked by his ult's AOE.
I think its partly the early ult nerf (way more noticeable than I thought it would be), but also the teleport top being so damn annoying for a bully. Getting whittled down by Renekton early used to be a near death sentence, but now you just go home, get some pots and items, and teleport back and its like it never happened, and its back up before you get bullied down again (usually). Also heal/exhaust for the important members of your team helps dealing with him a lot.
Sidenote: Scarra mentioned on his stream, using teleport defensively is rewarded and it just makes top lane really stupid. He thought it would be better if you got the lower cooldown if you used it on a teammates ward offensively, and I sort of agree. Having such a low cooldown on teleport to a turret nearly makes trading completely worthless unless you can kill them very soon after getting them low. I've had situations where I burned down a guys health twice in a relatively short time (because he teleported back in) and killed him, and then his teleport is back already.
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i think that if they allow this thing that shows enemy timers i will probably never play a non-aram/dominion game again
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On April 22 2014 16:33 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 16:29 JazzVortical wrote:On April 22 2014 16:18 IMoperator wrote:On April 22 2014 16:13 IamPryda wrote:On April 22 2014 15:56 IMoperator wrote:
when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying. a game with a pro scene should only be balanced around top level of play. and second win rates for champs with high difficult level will always be lower. elise never had a great winrate in solo q was she not op? riot doesnt really balance for the pro scene only though... So they shouldn't have nerfed Elise? Even though she was First pick/ban everywhere for months? she wasn't nerfed that badly in the first place, she's still used extensively in pro play. So sure, maybe she was too strong, but it didn't even matter to 99%+ of the playerbase in the first place. Nerfing leblanc for pro play will just make her even more useless in solo queue. If you're looking to nerf champions for pro play, why not champions like renekton or lucian which have been dominating for months in both pro play and solo queue, because obviously those champs are good in anybody's hands, not just pros?
But it isn't just the people playing the game. Anyone that watches pro games also becomes annoyed at powerful (perceived or real) champions dominating the scene. Elise is just a classic of example of being too strong because she cleared well, ganks well and can do a tonne of damage without building it. You can't maintain a healthy viewership if picks become stale, and one jungler invariably being Elise for such an inordinate amount of time fits the bill. Thresh falls into this category too, and champs like Ziggs are approaching the "we've had enough of you" level.
Incidentally, what are your thoughts on the reverse? What do you think about champs that dominate Solo Queue but aren't sighted competitively.
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On April 22 2014 17:14 JazzVortical wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 16:33 IMoperator wrote:On April 22 2014 16:29 JazzVortical wrote:On April 22 2014 16:18 IMoperator wrote:On April 22 2014 16:13 IamPryda wrote:On April 22 2014 15:56 IMoperator wrote:
when people talk about not balancing because of winrates, then how are you supposed to balance the game? Like people i'm talking to are complaining about leblanc being overpowered, but then I point out she has a 45% winrate and they say "ya but winrate doesnt matter". Well then what does matter? If they're balancing for the average player, leblanc is nowhere near op. Maybe in the pro scene where they have much better mechanics and can use her to her full potential she's op, but nobody below diamond 1 is going to have the problem of "leblanc op". it's really annoying. a game with a pro scene should only be balanced around top level of play. and second win rates for champs with high difficult level will always be lower. elise never had a great winrate in solo q was she not op? riot doesnt really balance for the pro scene only though... So they shouldn't have nerfed Elise? Even though she was First pick/ban everywhere for months? she wasn't nerfed that badly in the first place, she's still used extensively in pro play. So sure, maybe she was too strong, but it didn't even matter to 99%+ of the playerbase in the first place. Nerfing leblanc for pro play will just make her even more useless in solo queue. If you're looking to nerf champions for pro play, why not champions like renekton or lucian which have been dominating for months in both pro play and solo queue, because obviously those champs are good in anybody's hands, not just pros? But it isn't just the people playing the game. Anyone that watches pro games also becomes annoyed at powerful (perceived or real) champions dominating the scene. Elise is just a classic of example of being too strong because she cleared well, ganks well and can do a tonne of damage without building it. You can't maintain a healthy viewership if picks become stale, and one jungler invariably being Elise for such an inordinate amount of time fits the bill. Thresh falls into this category too, and champs like Ziggs are approaching the "we've had enough of you" level. Incidentally, what are your thoughts on the reverse? What do you think about champs that dominate Solo Queue but aren't sighted competitively.
eh, I'm not really sure. I understand about balancing for the highest level of play, but if I'm constantly being wrecked by yi, warwick and amumu (some of the highest winrates) it's not very fun for me to play the game vs. that kinda stuff. So for me personally, I'd like it if they nerfed those champs, but I'm not sure if it's better for the game in general. It's the same for "op" champs in pro play, like leblanc. She's one of my favorite champs, but if they nerf her, I'd basically not be able to use her since she's already not winning very many games. It's kinda a weird situation I guess.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
BTW quick question, because I'm just a random Silver noob, I want to play Leblanc in solo queue but how do you exactly play her? I mean, I've never used smartcasts and how am I able to combo her properly? Like W>Q>R>E>DFG combo in a short period? Smartcasts only? How do they exactly work? Because using 4 skills + DFG manually seems too freaking hard :\
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On April 22 2014 17:27 739 wrote:
BTW quick question, because I'm just a random Silver noob, I want to play Leblanc in solo queue but how do you exactly play her? I mean, I've never used smartcasts and how am I able to combo her properly? Like W>Q>R>E>DFG combo in a short period? Smartcasts only? How do they exactly work? Because using 4 skills + DFG manually seems too freaking hard :\
yeah you basically have to smartcast with her. standard combo is w to get in range, dfg-q-r-e to one shot and w back in time.
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On April 22 2014 16:57 Kenpachi wrote:
are runes on sale? and what are adc runes nowadays?
2 AS quints, 1 AD quint, 5 flat hp seals, 4 armor seals, ad marks, mres/mana reg/as glyphs
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EPT
