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On March 31 2014 23:24 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2014 22:22 phyvo wrote:On March 31 2014 19:29 Doctorbeat wrote:On March 31 2014 19:06 xes wrote:One thing I saw a lot of was people defining Pantheon's role as an "AD Caster," which isn't technically a role in LoL. A Role describes What a character does in LoL, whereas "Caster" is answering How a character does what they do. For instance, Ezreal is an AD Caster, but he's still a Marksman because his role is to output high sustained damage to whatever targets he can hit while keeping himself alive. To shift the analogy back to Melee characters, Talon and Zed are examples of AD Caster Assassins, while Renekton and Garen are examples of AD Caster Bruisers, and I'd argue that Riven is an example of an AD Caster Melee Carry (not everyone agrees here). Smash please, I have cancer. Riot is a carcinogen. Ontopic why is classification like this even necessary? Honestly the champions don't benefit at all from being put in a specific corner. The entire fun is to see champions be used in new exciting ways that we haven't seen yet. Well, it's important to have some grasp of what a character generally does in a game and what the people who play that character think it does, because if you change all that it makes people angry. That said Riot's words for roles are pretty vague, WTF does "Fighter" mean anyway (not to mention "Tank" which sounds specific but actually isn't)? It's like how they coined Multiplayer Online Battle Arena which is an even crappier genre name than usual because it describes nearly every single game that is multiplayer and online. I believe the issue is they care too much about what a hero does on paper rather than what they do in game. If you playing Renekton(Stupid I know) as a support in bot lane then here's completely different to playing him in top lane. Same thing as playing pantheon in the jungle to playing him in mid or top lane. Where you play and what you do changes the "role" of that hero. So you should be defining what they do rather than who they are. I know this is going to get shit but let's take a look at dota. A hero like Naga has gone from being a carry to a last position support yet the hero itself doesn't have some strict definition of it's role. There is no need to say "Naga is a Melee Carry" because it's up to where you play it that defines what it is. If Riot just took a step back and stopped trying to make everything fit neatly into their predefined structure they would have a better time at figuring out what to do with outliers. Games like League aren't neat, they are messy and should embrace this nature instead of trying to be something they aren't.
You make really good points, I hadn't thought about it that way.
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I wonder what would happen if Riot simply nerfed Pantheon's Q damage vs monsters.
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United States47024 Posts
That would have made too much sense.
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On April 01 2014 00:03 Sufficiency wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Riot simply nerfed Pantheon's Q damage vs monsters.
he would almost be hecarim without aoe
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On April 01 2014 00:04 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 00:03 Sufficiency wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Riot simply nerfed Pantheon's Q damage vs monsters. he would almost be hecarim without aoe
Hecarim can't play mid though.
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On April 01 2014 00:07 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 00:04 arb wrote:On April 01 2014 00:03 Sufficiency wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Riot simply nerfed Pantheon's Q damage vs monsters. he would almost be hecarim without aoe Hecarim can't play mid though.
thats what you think
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On April 01 2014 00:10 cLutZ wrote:
Janna bad at 2v1 what?
Janna is pretty bad at 2v1.
Normally, as Janna you max E first. E is essential in 2v2 but very meh in 2v1.
In a 2v1 situation, what do you do? If you max W first, you will almost certainly get slaughtered when your opponent swap back to 2v2 you. Furthermore maxing W first makes her mid game really bland until lvl 13.
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On April 01 2014 00:15 Sufficiency wrote:Janna is pretty bad at 2v1. Normally, as Janna you max E first. E is essential in 2v2 but very meh in 2v1. In a 2v1 situation, what do you do? If you max W first, you will almost certainly get slaughtered when your opponent swap back to 2v2 you. Furthermore maxing W first makes her mid game really bland until lvl 13.
Janna's problem really doesn't have anything to do with that wtf.She is pretty decent 2v1.Her problem is all she offers is peel with no damage and that isn't what is valued from supports.Her 2v2 is kind of underwhelming compared to 2v1 actually.
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On April 01 2014 00:17 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 00:15 Sufficiency wrote:On April 01 2014 00:10 cLutZ wrote:
Janna bad at 2v1 what? Janna is pretty bad at 2v1. Normally, as Janna you max E first. E is essential in 2v2 but very meh in 2v1. In a 2v1 situation, what do you do? If you max W first, you will almost certainly get slaughtered when your opponent swap back to 2v2 you. Furthermore maxing W first makes her mid game really bland until lvl 13. Janna's problem really doesn't have anything to do with that wtf.She is pretty decent 2v1.Her problem is all she offers is peel with no damage and that isn't what is valued from supports.Her 2v2 is kind of underwhelming compared to 2v1 actually.
she does boost your adcs damage, aswell as having some really good run away skills.
a free bf sword in lane is nothing to scoff at
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It is compared to what other supports offer.
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I think Janna's problem is that ADC's just can't carry as hard by themselves as they used to. She is amazing at protecting, possibly the best in late game, but her laning is so weak that it is tough to get an ADC fed enough for it to be worth having a champion that is basically doing nothing but protecting them. Also Lulu outclasses her in just about every way, as she can protect almost as well and also has a nice poke-centric laning phase.
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What's the gameplan vs Vel'Koz? I'm not too familiar with him yet.
Had a heart-breaker hour long game yesterday. Vel'Koz and I (the opposing Malzahar) were basically tied in damage dealt and 50% higher than either ADC. In the final fight Vel'Koz somehow shredded me with his ult while I was ulting their Darius, with both of us in our backlines.
Should the front line be purposefully body-blocking Vel'Koz death ray? It's a really tricky spell to play around.
On the plus side, almost back to my season 3 peak. I should easily be Diamond by mid April at this rate. Trundle and Malzahar carrying me up.
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Velkoz's R is pass through iirc. You can't block it.
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You can't body-block Vel'Koz ult, that ability is so nasty. You really just need to use whatever mobility/flash you have to get the hell out of it.
Edit: Shen'd, but honestly the best counterplay may be to knock him out of it (I assume it is channeling?).
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I don't understand how any of her 2v1 issues are not also 2v2 issues that indicate general weakness as a character.
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I figured Janna would be okay in a 2v1 since her Q can push waves fast and her shield can help the adc take turret down faster
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Oh that explains a lot if it's pass-through. I was standing under our inhibitor turret ulting the diving Darius and Vel'Koz was basically at where our inner turret would be, so I was really surprised to take damage from him.
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On April 01 2014 00:17 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 00:15 Sufficiency wrote:On April 01 2014 00:10 cLutZ wrote:
Janna bad at 2v1 what? Janna is pretty bad at 2v1. Normally, as Janna you max E first. E is essential in 2v2 but very meh in 2v1. In a 2v1 situation, what do you do? If you max W first, you will almost certainly get slaughtered when your opponent swap back to 2v2 you. Furthermore maxing W first makes her mid game really bland until lvl 13. Janna's problem really doesn't have anything to do with that wtf.She is pretty decent 2v1.Her problem is all she offers is peel with no damage and that isn't what is valued from supports.Her 2v2 is kind of underwhelming compared to 2v1 actually.
How is Janna good in a lane-swap? She provides no real zoning and pushes the wave very slowly (though i cant say i have experimented with Q-max in 2v1's). You can do it, if you intend to dive 1v3 or something similar.
Her 2v2 is decent, but you want the upper-hand adc-wise.
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On April 01 2014 00:34 Alzadar wrote:
Oh that explains a lot if it's pass-through. I was standing under our inhibitor turret ulting the diving Darius and Vel'Koz was basically at where our inner turret would be, so I was really surprised to take damage from him.
I remember this one game I was playing Amumu and my team had a velkoz. It was a beautiful and bilarious game where the two of us were essentially killing their entire team 2v5. Curse of the sad disintegration ray too stronk.
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EPT
