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[Patch 4.2] Xerath/Skarner General Discussion - Page 17

Forum Index > LoL General
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killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 21:57:26
February 11 2014 21:55 GMT
#321
If you ignore the ults, then xerath and vel'koz are bsaically the same champion. (xerath q = velkoz w, xerath w (with stun) = velkoz e, xerath e = velkoz q (with stun)) The only differences are the ults, and small differences in how much damage the skills do.

Interesting that both get released (probably) within a patch of each other :p

On the other hand, two new delayed skillshot based squishies to be fotm, a good time for lb :D
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 21:56:22
February 11 2014 21:56 GMT
#322
On February 12 2014 06:55 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 06:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:
On February 12 2014 06:46 Ketara wrote:
I feel like this joke is getting old.


I find your lack of humor... disturbing.


It's just such a dated joke. I mean, look at the last champ who came out. He doesn't have a self rez!


In fairness, I mostly wanted to say that line.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
February 11 2014 21:56 GMT
#323
On February 12 2014 06:55 killerdog wrote:
If you ignore the ults, then xerath and vel'koz are the same champion. (xerath q = velkoz w, xerath w (with stun) = velkoz e, xerath e = velkoz q (with stun)) The only differences are the ults, and small differences in how much damage the skills do.

Interesting that both get released (probably) within a patch of each other :p

Yaaay more sieging mid laners, can't get enough of those.
Glorious SEA doto
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 11 2014 22:00 GMT
#324
Looking at Alex Ich's stream, Xerath's ult looks so underwhelming. ._. Visually, I mean. His Q and W are way more impressive.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 11 2014 22:00 GMT
#325
Watching that Chinese Draven game, where the guy gets like 40+ kills in like 20 or so minutes. I was thinking "damn, so this is what a hyper carry looks like", then I remembered, that was what season 2 normal ADC's looked like past the 30min mark.
liftlift > tsm
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 22:02:35
February 11 2014 22:01 GMT
#326
On February 12 2014 06:53 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 04:47 dae wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:38 ArchAngelSC wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:32 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:26 turamn wrote:
Vel'koz reveal is up!

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-reveal/velkoz-eye-void-revealed

so his ulti turns him into a voidray. and we know how balanced that unit was.
On February 12 2014 04:17 ArchAngelSC wrote:
So I've played 3 duo queue games now and have been first/last pick in all of them... I thought this was supposed to be fixed now?

and no one has ever flipped 3 heads in a row. EVER.

Seriously? You're comparing a 50/50 chance with the odds of getting the exact same TWO positions? which happen to be the same two positions you got before they "fixed" it?


(2/5 * 1/4)^3 = 0.1% chance for that to happen. Seems unlikely, but who knows.

(Or, about the same as flipping 10 heads in a row)


So a little probability lesson for today

When discussing probabilities in that manner the only thing that is generally being looked at is the calculated probability for an individual segment. Not the probability for what actually happened. People who get mad at streaks are generally exhibiting an observation bias.

E.G. Lets suggest that we play 9 games in a row and we want to know the probability of seeing, in those 9 games a situation where we get FP/LP on our duo 3 times in a row.

Well there are many more combinations than is immediately obvious as to how many combinations exist and the individual probability of each one, while very low, all gets added together.

For instance there are 16 combinations in which any particular streak exists, there are 5 potential streaks but some of the streaks overlap and are the same combination. Assuming independence this puts a maximum value on the likelihood at 8%(it will actually be slightly smaller than this). As you play more games the probability of a streak of 3 increases.

So its unlikely but not too unlikely....

Until you take it to its logical conclusion. Suppose that every TL' general played those same 9 games and suppose furthermore than those which did not see an uncommon situation did not come into the thread to report it, but only some fraction of the people who did see an uncommon situation did.

So now we have say 50 people, each looking at a 7% probability that this 3 streak or more happens. The probability that none of the 50 people who report to the chat encountered the completely random situation in which they got a streak of 3 in a row is about 2%.

Now here is the real thing. If you were getting the first/last before the patch then there would be zero games in which you also did not get the same first/last after the patch if nothing was changed. So testing whether or not its working is fairly easy. Has anyone duo'd and not gotten first/last with people they know have divergent MMR?

If yes, its probably just that you got unlucky


Given the time of day, and the fact that the patch just came out, and my respect for the original posters intelligence, I made the logical assumption that those 3 games were the only 3 games he had duoq'd since the patch.

With that assumption, and the fact that riot does make stupid mistakes sometimes, and that it would only take 1 person to have duoq'd without this observation to disprove it, it's pretty obvious that there was a quite large chance that riot screwed up.

Say theres a couple hundred people that post in this thread. Say that there is 50 that have played since the patch. The chance that 1 out of those 50 had a 1/1000 chance in the first few games he duoq'd is pretty low. And that no one has come out to say that it didn't happen for them, just makes it more likely.

And, I find it funny you posted a wall of text in response to a basic "what are the chances this happened" post.

Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
February 11 2014 22:04 GMT
#327
http://esportsexpress.com/2014/02/team-solomid-acquires-heroes-of-newerth/

TSM TSM TSM
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 22:12:24
February 11 2014 22:10 GMT
#328
On February 12 2014 06:53 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 04:47 dae wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:38 ArchAngelSC wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:32 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:26 turamn wrote:
Vel'koz reveal is up!

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-reveal/velkoz-eye-void-revealed

so his ulti turns him into a voidray. and we know how balanced that unit was.
On February 12 2014 04:17 ArchAngelSC wrote:
So I've played 3 duo queue games now and have been first/last pick in all of them... I thought this was supposed to be fixed now?

and no one has ever flipped 3 heads in a row. EVER.

Seriously? You're comparing a 50/50 chance with the odds of getting the exact same TWO positions? which happen to be the same two positions you got before they "fixed" it?


(2/5 * 1/4)^3 = 0.1% chance for that to happen. Seems unlikely, but who knows.

(Or, about the same as flipping 10 heads in a row)


So a little probability lesson for today

When discussing probabilities in that manner the only thing that is generally being looked at is the calculated probability for an individual segment. Not the probability for what actually happened. People who get mad at streaks are generally exhibiting an observation bias.

E.G. Lets suggest that we play 9 games in a row and we want to know the probability of seeing, in those 9 games a situation where we get FP/LP on our duo 3 times in a row.

Well there are many more combinations than is immediately obvious as to how many combinations exist and the individual probability of each one, while very low, all gets added together.

For instance there are 16 combinations in which any particular streak exists, there are 5 potential streaks but some of the streaks overlap and are the same combination. Assuming independence this puts a maximum value on the likelihood at 8%(it will actually be slightly smaller than this). As you play more games the probability of a streak of 3 increases.

So its unlikely but not too unlikely....

Until you take it to its logical conclusion. Suppose that every TL' general played those same 9 games and suppose furthermore than those which did not see an uncommon situation did not come into the thread to report it, but only some fraction of the people who did see an uncommon situation did.

So now we have say 50 people, each looking at a 7% probability that this 3 streak or more happens. The probability that none of the 50 people who report to the chat encountered the completely random situation in which they got a streak of 3 in a row is about 2%.

Now here is the real thing. If you were getting the first/last before the patch then there would be zero games in which you also did not get the same first/last after the patch if nothing was changed. So testing whether or not its working is fairly easy. Has anyone duo'd and not gotten first/last with people they know have divergent MMR?

If yes, its probably just that you got unlucky

edit: Another way to think about it is by looking at the lottery.

The probability of winning the lottery is something like 1/200,000,000. But this does not mean that no one wins the lottery because individually its extremely unlikely. It also doesn't mean that the actual probability isn't 1/200,000,000 if you(or your buddy, or your work mate, or someone in your city) wins.


I hope for edification of those in your vicinity that your current employment is wholly unrelated with education in statistics and/or probability.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 11 2014 22:13 GMT
#329
On February 12 2014 07:04 Gahlo wrote:
http://esportsexpress.com/2014/02/team-solomid-acquires-heroes-of-newerth/

TSM TSM TSM


HoN still exists?
Freeeeeeedom
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
February 11 2014 22:14 GMT
#330
On February 12 2014 07:10 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 06:53 Goumindong wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:47 dae wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:38 ArchAngelSC wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:32 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 12 2014 04:26 turamn wrote:
Vel'koz reveal is up!

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-reveal/velkoz-eye-void-revealed

so his ulti turns him into a voidray. and we know how balanced that unit was.
On February 12 2014 04:17 ArchAngelSC wrote:
So I've played 3 duo queue games now and have been first/last pick in all of them... I thought this was supposed to be fixed now?

and no one has ever flipped 3 heads in a row. EVER.

Seriously? You're comparing a 50/50 chance with the odds of getting the exact same TWO positions? which happen to be the same two positions you got before they "fixed" it?


(2/5 * 1/4)^3 = 0.1% chance for that to happen. Seems unlikely, but who knows.

(Or, about the same as flipping 10 heads in a row)


So a little probability lesson for today

When discussing probabilities in that manner the only thing that is generally being looked at is the calculated probability for an individual segment. Not the probability for what actually happened. People who get mad at streaks are generally exhibiting an observation bias.

E.G. Lets suggest that we play 9 games in a row and we want to know the probability of seeing, in those 9 games a situation where we get FP/LP on our duo 3 times in a row.

Well there are many more combinations than is immediately obvious as to how many combinations exist and the individual probability of each one, while very low, all gets added together.

For instance there are 16 combinations in which any particular streak exists, there are 5 potential streaks but some of the streaks overlap and are the same combination. Assuming independence this puts a maximum value on the likelihood at 8%(it will actually be slightly smaller than this). As you play more games the probability of a streak of 3 increases.

So its unlikely but not too unlikely....

Until you take it to its logical conclusion. Suppose that every TL' general played those same 9 games and suppose furthermore than those which did not see an uncommon situation did not come into the thread to report it, but only some fraction of the people who did see an uncommon situation did.

So now we have say 50 people, each looking at a 7% probability that this 3 streak or more happens. The probability that none of the 50 people who report to the chat encountered the completely random situation in which they got a streak of 3 in a row is about 2%.

Now here is the real thing. If you were getting the first/last before the patch then there would be zero games in which you also did not get the same first/last after the patch if nothing was changed. So testing whether or not its working is fairly easy. Has anyone duo'd and not gotten first/last with people they know have divergent MMR?

If yes, its probably just that you got unlucky

edit: Another way to think about it is by looking at the lottery.

The probability of winning the lottery is something like 1/200,000,000. But this does not mean that no one wins the lottery because individually its extremely unlikely. It also doesn't mean that the actual probability isn't 1/200,000,000 if you(or your buddy, or your work mate, or someone in your city) wins.


I hope for edification of those in your vicinity that your current employment is wholly unrelated with education in statistics and/or probability.


Why? What was the issue with the post?


Say theres a couple hundred people that post in this thread. Say that there is 50 that have played since the patch. The chance that 1 out of those 50 had a 1/1000 chance in the first few games he duoq'd is pretty low. And that no one has come out to say that it didn't happen for them, just makes it more likely.


About 5%, so not terribly low. The idea that people haven't come out to say that they have is probably because the likelihood of people looking at the thread is low compared to the people who go to post an experience.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
February 11 2014 22:15 GMT
#331
On February 12 2014 07:13 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 07:04 Gahlo wrote:
http://esportsexpress.com/2014/02/team-solomid-acquires-heroes-of-newerth/

TSM TSM TSM


HoN still exists?

There are dozens of players. At any time there may be a literal plurality of matches. Serious note though from what I've heard it's still popular in SEA
Glorious SEA doto
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 11 2014 22:16 GMT
#332
On February 12 2014 07:15 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 07:13 cLutZ wrote:
On February 12 2014 07:04 Gahlo wrote:
http://esportsexpress.com/2014/02/team-solomid-acquires-heroes-of-newerth/

TSM TSM TSM


HoN still exists?

There are dozens of players. At any time there may be a literal plurality of matches. Serious note though from what I've heard it's still popular in SEA


http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pk5la

?
Freeeeeeedom
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
February 11 2014 22:17 GMT
#333
On February 12 2014 06:53 Goumindong wrote:
[SNIP]

Okay.

  • Your posts is a mess. Maximum value of likelihood of what? Of a streak? How do you even do an MLE on that. Are you trying to solve for the probability of being assigned first pick? A basic sense check tells you 8% is far too low.
  • Then you try to combine Bayesian statistics by trying to bring in inference? Or is this just a comment that if you have a large enough sample size, eventually even small probabilities happen?
  • You final question about whether someone else experiencing this is somehow related to luck or something I don't even know what you're trying to test here. That somehow if someone else experiences a low probability event it somehow means you're not experiencing confirmation bias?


I am going to kill this stats discussion right here and now because it is so bad.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Celial
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
2602 Posts
February 11 2014 22:17 GMT
#334
Runes/Masteries for Aatrox and Darius? For Nocturne I'm going to try Ninjakens guide.

Do not regret. Always forward, never back.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 22:19:41
February 11 2014 22:19 GMT
#335
All of stats nonsense could be solved by a couple other duo queuers (of significantly different ranks) going into duo queue and posting their results. one non first/last pick would prove that riot didn't screw up, and even a couple more first/last picks would greatly strengthen the hypothesis that riot did screw up.

User was warned for this post
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 22:19:39
February 11 2014 22:19 GMT
#336
On February 12 2014 07:17 Celial wrote:
Runes/Masteries for Aatrox and Darius? For Nocturne I'm going to try Ninjakens guide.


When I played Darius it was typical bruiser ArPen/armor/mr/AD. AD marks are always an option.
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 22:25:27
February 11 2014 22:21 GMT
#337
On February 12 2014 07:15 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 07:13 cLutZ wrote:
On February 12 2014 07:04 Gahlo wrote:
http://esportsexpress.com/2014/02/team-solomid-acquires-heroes-of-newerth/

TSM TSM TSM


HoN still exists?

There are dozens of players. At any time there may be a literal plurality of matches. Serious note though from what I've heard it's still popular in SEA

People play more HoN in SEA than Dota2 in Korea.
Not to mention Tencent just got distribution right for HoN in China. Apparently there will be a new blind-pick mode, you can't see the other team picking, you don't lose gold when dying, and everybody has one free dedicate courier.

http://vimeo.com/80659594
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
February 11 2014 22:41 GMT
#338
On February 12 2014 07:19 thenexusp wrote:
All of stats nonsense could be solved by a couple other duo queuers (of significantly different ranks) going into duo queue and posting their results. one non first/last pick would prove that riot didn't screw up, and even a couple more first/last picks would greatly strengthen the hypothesis that riot did screw up.

Not necessarily, before this patch I had duoq that were in the middle of the pick (it happens very rarely though).

So you'd have to first sample for the prior, then assess whether the posterior is statistically significant.

User was warned for this post
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 11 2014 22:42 GMT
#339
On February 12 2014 07:21 canikizu wrote:
Not to mention Tencent just got distribution right for HoN in China. Apparently there will be a new blind-pick mode, you can't see the other team picking, you don't lose gold when dying, and everybody has one free dedicate courier.

Doesn't HoN already give your team a free courier? Or do you mean per-player?
Moderator
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 11 2014 22:45 GMT
#340
hon sure has changed a lot from back when i played. can't even recognize it as the same game
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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