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On February 25 2014 02:05 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 00:21 Gahlo wrote:On February 24 2014 20:52 killerdog wrote:On February 24 2014 19:57 Gahlo wrote:On February 24 2014 19:52 Drium wrote:On February 24 2014 19:26 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
will the "buff spellvamp by removing mana regen from WotA" thread ever stop getting posted every two days on reddit?
noone seems to understand that it is intentionally less gold-efficient on manaless champs because they get free sustain from it I don't think it's that bad of an idea. Nobody buys wota, very few manaless ap casters are getting picked in competitive play, and if they are picked they don't build wota. It's an issue where regardless of what they do with the item, somebody will complain. If they leave it the way it is, shortsighted vlad players will bemoan not ideal itemization. If they remove the mana regen, people will complain that it's a nerf to Cass. Don't cass players rush haunting guise anyway? by the time they would finish wota after guise + boots, they should have blue buff already, so it shouldn't matter. Just guise + boots for imba mpen stacking, into void/rabas/rylias/zhonyas depending on situation, with a revolver thrown in if there's poke going on/after 2-3 items/whenever they back with 1200 gold. I've only seen cass players get a fast wota if they're being bullied in lane, and if thats happening you probably have bigger problems, but then again, i see cass players so rarely that i don't have the largest sample size. I can't think of any mana using casters on whom wota is actually core. I just buy it on leblanc or veigar as a 5th/6th item when i'm really fed (oneshotting someone, and healing 50% of your max health in the process is just so hilariously funny in teamfights :D.) Yeah, that's a pretty poor statement. It assumes that Cass always has blue, which obviously isn't the case. So you make your first big item a "worst case scneario" crutch item? If you start getting denied blues are are losing lane becasue of it, then just buy a tear or chalice or something. The idea that you should build a utility/non bullying item first just because of the risk you might fall behind feels very recursive. Solo q on champions like cassiopeia is basically, try and use her insane early damage to snowball into the mid game and wreck everyones faces, hence why you build mpen, to boost your early damage as much as possible to enable you to crush lane and snowball, (plus haunting guise scales well, as liandrys + rylias is just insane damage/kiting potential against bruisers). Making your default itemisation the "oh shit i'm screwed" itemisation reminds me of playing with my silver friend who goes "just got a double kill on syndra lvl 3, fk damage, i'll get a catalyst so i won't lose lane."
If buying a utility/nonbullying item first is bad, why build a revolver first anyway? Other manaheavy mids go Athene's first just fine. If a Cass intends to get an Archangels, why not get a tear early? Cass itemization feels like it's been in a weird time capsule since S2, only adjusting as pre-existing items get upgrades.
On February 25 2014 04:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Speaking of Cassiopeia, has anyone actually seen this Cassiopeia perfect kiting bot that is often claimed on reddit?
Given that it's reddit, it's probably a case of "I don't play bad and I'm held back by shitty teams so my enemy can't be good enough to beat me. Clearly cheating."
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Nah the hack is a real thing, it's just a question of how much it's being used.
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On February 25 2014 05:46 Ketara wrote:
Nah the hack is a real thing, it's just a question of how much it's being used.
That's my point, the confirmed existence of it affects how many people cry about it.
e. Just looked up the first page of Cass games on probuilds, checking different midlaners that weren't jungling cass. Alex Ich, xPeke, Pobelter, Scarra, and Froggen all built tear/chalice first.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On February 25 2014 05:09 Shikyo wrote:
I think Gragas wrecks practically every melee top by maxing Bodyslam first and spamming it like a madman, no clue why we don't see Gragas top more often.
What would you build on Gragas top? Just pure tankiness (Sunfire, Randuin's, Spirit Visage) or start with something like a Rod of Ages? Innox's build seemed weird: he started with three Doran's Rings, then rushed Athene's vs Trundle, then just went into glass cannon mode. Kev1n vs Fnatic's Renekton just built straight up tank.
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I got wrecked by a jungle gragas in s2 who went rod randuins nashor's frozen mallet abyssal lol
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The Version of Gragas on live can build whatever he damn well pleases
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And still 2-shot a carry while drinking his beer.
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Oh Gragas nerf, how delicious you look on the PBE.
Please come soon.
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On February 25 2014 06:07 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 05:09 Shikyo wrote:
I think Gragas wrecks practically every melee top by maxing Bodyslam first and spamming it like a madman, no clue why we don't see Gragas top more often. What would you build on Gragas top? Just pure tankiness (Sunfire, Randuin's, Spirit Visage) or start with something like a Rod of Ages? Innox's build seemed weird: he started with three Doran's Rings, then rushed Athene's vs Trundle, then just went into glass cannon mode. Kev1n vs Fnatic's Renekton just built straight up tank.
In pro you can get away with going regular AP gragas build, except maybe morellos instead of chalice. Probably need extra dring to survive lane, but since pros group earlier, you don't need to build too hardcore for lane.
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On February 25 2014 06:07 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 05:09 Shikyo wrote:
I think Gragas wrecks practically every melee top by maxing Bodyslam first and spamming it like a madman, no clue why we don't see Gragas top more often. What would you build on Gragas top? Just pure tankiness (Sunfire, Randuin's, Spirit Visage) or start with something like a Rod of Ages? Innox's build seemed weird: he started with three Doran's Rings, then rushed Athene's vs Trundle, then just went into glass cannon mode. Kev1n vs Fnatic's Renekton just built straight up tank.
Well the successful ones I've seen begin by getting relatively tanky(sunfire etc) and transition into AP but I haven't seen it enough, never tried it either. Have been completely wrecked by multiple ones though, bodyslam is crazy strong when you go lasthit, is magic dmg so mass armor doesn't work, and gragas has good sustain and gets very powerful autos off due to W buff as well.
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Oh General, how I've missed you. He's just shitting on his toplaner because of no-skin Kayle with Barrier, like wtf, it shouldn't be that hard a matchup either, Kayle vs Nidalee....
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On February 25 2014 06:24 Crusnik wrote:
And still 2-shot a carry while drinking his beer.
Oktoberfest gragas OP
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Now that I am level 30, I am thinking of playing a single champion for ranked. That champion only. If the said champion is banned I will dodge. I obviously don't want a fotm champion, one which is banned too often, or one that is too unstable (subject to upcoming nerf or buff hammer). It would be nicer if the said champion can play multiple roles.
My short list right now:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?)
Mordekaiser (jungle Morde is real?)
Karthus (jungle Karthus IS real)
Warwick
Nami (only play her as support, no one will steal my role)
Soraka (mid Soraka IS real)
Nocturne (mid Noc is real?)
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On February 25 2014 05:45 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 02:05 killerdog wrote:On February 25 2014 00:21 Gahlo wrote:On February 24 2014 20:52 killerdog wrote:On February 24 2014 19:57 Gahlo wrote:On February 24 2014 19:52 Drium wrote:On February 24 2014 19:26 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
will the "buff spellvamp by removing mana regen from WotA" thread ever stop getting posted every two days on reddit?
noone seems to understand that it is intentionally less gold-efficient on manaless champs because they get free sustain from it I don't think it's that bad of an idea. Nobody buys wota, very few manaless ap casters are getting picked in competitive play, and if they are picked they don't build wota. It's an issue where regardless of what they do with the item, somebody will complain. If they leave it the way it is, shortsighted vlad players will bemoan not ideal itemization. If they remove the mana regen, people will complain that it's a nerf to Cass. Don't cass players rush haunting guise anyway? by the time they would finish wota after guise + boots, they should have blue buff already, so it shouldn't matter. Just guise + boots for imba mpen stacking, into void/rabas/rylias/zhonyas depending on situation, with a revolver thrown in if there's poke going on/after 2-3 items/whenever they back with 1200 gold. I've only seen cass players get a fast wota if they're being bullied in lane, and if thats happening you probably have bigger problems, but then again, i see cass players so rarely that i don't have the largest sample size. I can't think of any mana using casters on whom wota is actually core. I just buy it on leblanc or veigar as a 5th/6th item when i'm really fed (oneshotting someone, and healing 50% of your max health in the process is just so hilariously funny in teamfights :D.) Yeah, that's a pretty poor statement. It assumes that Cass always has blue, which obviously isn't the case. So you make your first big item a "worst case scneario" crutch item? If you start getting denied blues are are losing lane becasue of it, then just buy a tear or chalice or something. The idea that you should build a utility/non bullying item first just because of the risk you might fall behind feels very recursive. Solo q on champions like cassiopeia is basically, try and use her insane early damage to snowball into the mid game and wreck everyones faces, hence why you build mpen, to boost your early damage as much as possible to enable you to crush lane and snowball, (plus haunting guise scales well, as liandrys + rylias is just insane damage/kiting potential against bruisers). Making your default itemisation the "oh shit i'm screwed" itemisation reminds me of playing with my silver friend who goes "just got a double kill on syndra lvl 3, fk damage, i'll get a catalyst so i won't lose lane." If buying a utility/nonbullying item first is bad, why build a revolver first anyway? Other manaheavy mids go Athene's first just fine. If a Cass intends to get an Archangels, why not get a tear early? Cass itemization feels like it's been in a weird time capsule since S2, only adjusting as pre-existing items get upgrades.
You don't go revolver first though, (at least from what I've seen.) It's literally rush haunting guise and boots 2 as your first two items, using pots/your passive to manage your mana. As long as you aren't trying to last hit with e, (or think you're karthus and only farm with q or something) they generally seem to do fine mana wise for the first few levels. Just farm with autos, and if you ever land a q on your lane opponent, go absolutely ham with e spam and generally either get 80% of their health, or fb.
Then once you have boots + haunting guise you have such ridiculously imba damage that you can 1v1 pretty much anyone, and the hp makes it so most assassins can't one combo you without you getting your ult off, and probably killing them first, Just shove or roam, and if their jungler hasn't managed to shut you down before this you can probably 1v2 them now.
Again though, it's been a while since I've actually seriously played her, so this is just what i've seen from other cass players in solo q who've done well. The only variations on this i've seen are getting a tear first before going into damage, for the tanky archangles mid-lategame, or building a chalice for the laning phase (this is more vs assassins) then just selling it again when you need the space/gold. Haven't seen anyone start revolver in a longgg time.
On February 25 2014 07:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?)
Support cass with twitch adc is the most bullshit op crap i've ever laned against. I don't think I've ever gotten anywhere near working out how to lane vs it over the 3-4 random times i've hit it in the last few years. With any other adc she's a bit meh though.
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On February 25 2014 07:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Now that I am level 30, I am thinking of playing a single champion for ranked. That champion only. If the said champion is banned I will dodge. I obviously don't want a fotm champion, one which is banned too often, or one that is too unstable (subject to upcoming nerf or buff hammer). It would be nicer if the said champion can play multiple roles.
My short list right now:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?)
Mordekaiser (jungle Morde is real?)
Karthus (jungle Karthus IS real)
Warwick
Nami (only play her as support, no one will steal my role)
Soraka (mid Soraka IS real)
Nocturne (mid Noc is real?)
Jungle morde is real. Farm jungle, and all 3 lanes. Get the rest of your scrub teammates to rage quit at you for taking their farm. Have 700 farm at 25 minute mark, continue to carry 1v5.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On February 25 2014 07:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Now that I am level 30, I am thinking of playing a single champion for ranked. That champion only. If the said champion is banned I will dodge. I obviously don't want a fotm champion, one which is banned too often, or one that is too unstable (subject to upcoming nerf or buff hammer). It would be nicer if the said champion can play multiple roles.
My short list right now:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?)
Mordekaiser (jungle Morde is real?)
Karthus (jungle Karthus IS real)
Warwick
Nami (only play her as support, no one will steal my role)
Soraka (mid Soraka IS real)
Nocturne (mid Noc is real?)
From my experience top lane is actually less popular than support, seriously you gotta force people to top lane these days when the last two roles available are top and support that thresh doesn't get locked in fast enough.
Also jungle soraka is totally real man, driveby healing all aboard the jungle waahmbulance.
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Karthus or soraka probably best because you can play them at 4 roles.Jungle raka not that good but still ok.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 25 2014 07:59 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 05:45 Gahlo wrote:On February 25 2014 02:05 killerdog wrote:On February 25 2014 00:21 Gahlo wrote:On February 24 2014 20:52 killerdog wrote:On February 24 2014 19:57 Gahlo wrote:On February 24 2014 19:52 Drium wrote:On February 24 2014 19:26 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
will the "buff spellvamp by removing mana regen from WotA" thread ever stop getting posted every two days on reddit?
noone seems to understand that it is intentionally less gold-efficient on manaless champs because they get free sustain from it I don't think it's that bad of an idea. Nobody buys wota, very few manaless ap casters are getting picked in competitive play, and if they are picked they don't build wota. It's an issue where regardless of what they do with the item, somebody will complain. If they leave it the way it is, shortsighted vlad players will bemoan not ideal itemization. If they remove the mana regen, people will complain that it's a nerf to Cass. Don't cass players rush haunting guise anyway? by the time they would finish wota after guise + boots, they should have blue buff already, so it shouldn't matter. Just guise + boots for imba mpen stacking, into void/rabas/rylias/zhonyas depending on situation, with a revolver thrown in if there's poke going on/after 2-3 items/whenever they back with 1200 gold. I've only seen cass players get a fast wota if they're being bullied in lane, and if thats happening you probably have bigger problems, but then again, i see cass players so rarely that i don't have the largest sample size. I can't think of any mana using casters on whom wota is actually core. I just buy it on leblanc or veigar as a 5th/6th item when i'm really fed (oneshotting someone, and healing 50% of your max health in the process is just so hilariously funny in teamfights :D.) Yeah, that's a pretty poor statement. It assumes that Cass always has blue, which obviously isn't the case. So you make your first big item a "worst case scneario" crutch item? If you start getting denied blues are are losing lane becasue of it, then just buy a tear or chalice or something. The idea that you should build a utility/non bullying item first just because of the risk you might fall behind feels very recursive. Solo q on champions like cassiopeia is basically, try and use her insane early damage to snowball into the mid game and wreck everyones faces, hence why you build mpen, to boost your early damage as much as possible to enable you to crush lane and snowball, (plus haunting guise scales well, as liandrys + rylias is just insane damage/kiting potential against bruisers). Making your default itemisation the "oh shit i'm screwed" itemisation reminds me of playing with my silver friend who goes "just got a double kill on syndra lvl 3, fk damage, i'll get a catalyst so i won't lose lane." If buying a utility/nonbullying item first is bad, why build a revolver first anyway? Other manaheavy mids go Athene's first just fine. If a Cass intends to get an Archangels, why not get a tear early? Cass itemization feels like it's been in a weird time capsule since S2, only adjusting as pre-existing items get upgrades. You don't go revolver first though, (at least from what I've seen.) It's literally rush haunting guise and boots 2 as your first two items, using pots/your passive to manage your mana. As long as you aren't trying to last hit with e, (or think you're karthus and only farm with q or something) they generally seem to do fine mana wise for the first few levels. Just farm with autos, and if you ever land a q on your lane opponent, go absolutely ham with e spam and generally either get 80% of their health, or fb. Then once you have boots + haunting guise you have such ridiculously imba damage that you can 1v1 pretty much anyone, and the hp makes it so most assassins can't one combo you without you getting your ult off, and probably killing them first, Just shove or roam, and if their jungler hasn't managed to shut you down before this you can probably 1v2 them now. Again though, it's been a while since I've actually seriously played her, so this is just what i've seen from other cass players in solo q who've done well. The only variations on this i've seen are getting a tear first before going into damage, for the tanky archangles mid-lategame, or building a chalice for the laning phase (this is more vs assassins) then just selling it again when you need the space/gold. Haven't seen anyone start revolver in a longgg time. Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 07:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?) Support cass with twitch adc is the most bullshit op crap i've ever laned against. I don't think I've ever gotten anywhere near working out how to lane vs it over the 3-4 random times i've hit it in the last few years. With any other adc she's a bit meh though.
Although Id prefer to feature in the other kind of dreams, I am happy to hear I and Risu still appear in your nightmares :3
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On February 25 2014 08:13 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 07:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Now that I am level 30, I am thinking of playing a single champion for ranked. That champion only. If the said champion is banned I will dodge. I obviously don't want a fotm champion, one which is banned too often, or one that is too unstable (subject to upcoming nerf or buff hammer). It would be nicer if the said champion can play multiple roles.
My short list right now:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?)
Mordekaiser (jungle Morde is real?)
Karthus (jungle Karthus IS real)
Warwick
Nami (only play her as support, no one will steal my role)
Soraka (mid Soraka IS real)
Nocturne (mid Noc is real?) From my experience top lane is actually less popular than support, seriously you gotta force people to top lane these days when the last two roles available are top and support that thresh doesn't get locked in fast enough. Also jungle soraka is totally real man, driveby healing all aboard the jungle waahmbulance.
Oh god that is true. These two months I played more lulu top games than I played her anywhere else, even after I mentioned I don't mind going support after mid is taken.
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On February 25 2014 08:13 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 07:58 Sufficiency wrote:
Now that I am level 30, I am thinking of playing a single champion for ranked. That champion only. If the said champion is banned I will dodge. I obviously don't want a fotm champion, one which is banned too often, or one that is too unstable (subject to upcoming nerf or buff hammer). It would be nicer if the said champion can play multiple roles.
My short list right now:
Cassiopeia (support Cassiopeia is real?)
Mordekaiser (jungle Morde is real?)
Karthus (jungle Karthus IS real)
Warwick
Nami (only play her as support, no one will steal my role)
Soraka (mid Soraka IS real)
Nocturne (mid Noc is real?) From my experience top lane is actually less popular than support, seriously you gotta force people to top lane these days when the last two roles available are top and support that thresh doesn't get locked in fast enough. Also jungle soraka is totally real man, driveby healing all aboard the jungle waahmbulance.
Hehe I thought I was crazy but yea, top seems to be really unpopular these days for some reason.
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EPT
