EPT[Patch 4.2] Xerath/Skarner General Discussion - Page 119
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
It's the same concept as auto harassing as a support. You can be fine without it, but if you use it well it can negate a lot of innate regen, bait your opponent into dumb stuff or force them to burn an extra pot. Big advantages start from small ones, and you should try to create those as much as possible. For example, if you play Soraka you have several ways to play: 1. Healbot, basically a controllable, glorified version of a flask 2. Auto harass and E to annoy your opponent 3. Go HAM with tons of defense and spam starcall 4. First 2, then 3 You can either be the most passive and useless support, or you can make the other team feel like they are Vietnamese farmers during the Tet Offensive. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:11 ticklishmusic wrote: Using the enhanced autos on Lulu, Lux, Ziggs, etc. is what separates good players from great ones. Sure you're not going to use it, but its a part of your kit you should be taking advantage of as much as possible/ judiciously. With the inclusion of spellweaving, spellblade and whatever other masteries/mpen stuff you're taking, it can add up to a significant amount. It's the same concept as auto harassing as a support. You can be fine without it, but if you use it well it can negate a lot of innate regen, bait your opponent into dumb stuff or force them to burn an extra pot. Big advantages start from small ones, and you should try to create those as much as possible. For example, if you play Soraka you have several ways to play: 1. Healbot, basically a controllable, glorified version of a flask 2. Auto harass and E to annoy your opponent 3. Go HAM with tons of defense and spam starcall 4. First 2, then 3 You can either be the most passive and useless support, or you can make the other team feel like they are Vietnamese farmers during the Tet Offensive. Using enhanced autos is relevant in laning phase and definitely separates good from great. The conversation was talking about in 5v5s, where you're not really going to be auto attacking anything; maybe the bruiser diving you but it won't be that relevant. At the very least, it won't be relevant enough to justify investing gold/item slots into building items designed to enhance your auto attacks. Maybe as a luxury 5th or 6th item to enhance your tower pushing power, but definitely should not be core on Lux/Ziggs and other long range mages. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
But seriously, you're missing out quite a bit of damage if you don't auto. Obviously its up to your best judgment of what to do in a teamfight, but if you are relatively safe in the backline and basically all you're going to do until something comes off CD is madly randomly click on the ground, you better right click someone and hit them. Redemption feelz when you miss a bouncing bomb on Ziggs on a low heath enemy but kill them anyway with an enhanced auto. It's the little things that count. If I'm playing ARAM or being lazy, I won't do stuff like that and I'll win, but not as much or as easily. When I full tryhard, I do all the little things and I win hard and fast. Or at least harder and faster. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:07 cLutZ wrote: Holy crap. Xerath's new passive is basically 2/3 of a Blue Card every 12 seconds for free. his mana costs are also ridiculously high as hell. | ||
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
Lichbane or not, auto-attacking with lux or anybody is better then not at all. Lichbane might be a bad idea, but auto attacking sure as hell isnt | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:29 ticklishmusic wrote: I still highly recommend autoing in teamfights, its a good skill to have But seriously, you're missing out quite a bit of damage if you don't auto. Obviously its up to your best judgment of what to do in a teamfight, but if you are relatively safe in the backline and basically all you're going to do until something comes off CD is madly randomly click on the ground, you better right click someone and hit them. Redemption feelz when you miss a bouncing bomb on Ziggs on a low heath enemy but kill them anyway with an enhanced auto. It's the little things that count. If I'm playing ARAM or being lazy, I won't do stuff like that and I'll win, but not as much or as easily. When I full tryhard, I do all the little things and I win hard and fast. Or at least harder and faster. Obviously if you can, you should. But considering you have great range and you're a squishy target, it's better to not expose yourself to that spinning Jax. What are you missing out on for getting a Lichbane? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:29 ticklishmusic wrote: I still highly recommend autoing in teamfights, its a good skill to have But seriously, you're missing out quite a bit of damage if you don't auto. Obviously its up to your best judgment of what to do in a teamfight, but if you are relatively safe in the backline and basically all you're going to do until something comes off CD is madly randomly click on the ground, you better right click someone and hit them. Redemption feelz when you miss a bouncing bomb on Ziggs on a low heath enemy but kill them anyway with an enhanced auto. It's the little things that count. If I'm playing ARAM or being lazy, I won't do stuff like that and I'll win, but not as much or as easily. When I full tryhard, I do all the little things and I win hard and fast. Or at least harder and faster. The question isn't whether or not you should auto. It's whether or not it's worth invest 3k+ gold on an item that requires you to auto in between spells to get it's gold's worth, versus the opportunity cost of just getting a Deathcap or voidstaff instead. Especially if your kit is all about spells that hit at the 1k range mark. Let's consider the regular Lux combo. Q-E-R. Now, Are you telling me after laning phase in a teamfight. You can Q+Cast E, walk up to auto attack range, auto attack, proc passive, press E again, final spark, auto attack again? Cuz that's about as ideal of a situation to deal max damage without lichbane, in her spell rotation. You'r lucky enough to hit QER, and sneak an auto in there afterwords. | ||
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:55 wei2coolman wrote: The question isn't whether or not you should auto. It's whether or not it's worth invest 3k+ gold on an item that requires you to auto in between spells to get it's gold's worth, versus the opportunity cost of just getting a Deathcap or voidstaff instead. Especially if your kit is all about spells that hit at the 1k range mark. The lichbane conversation ended a while ago after 5HIT and MB weighed in with its actual effectiveness vs more AP. You and others were rofloling saying a Lux shouldnt even be autoattacking in the first place. Why are you spouting crap? FYI her passive is included in that kit you reference and apparently you let it go to waste. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 24 2014 17:00 Omnishroud wrote: The lichbane conversation ended a while ago after 5HIT and MB weighed in with its actual effectiveness vs more AP. You and others were rofloling saying a Lux shouldnt even be autoattacking in the first place. Why are you spouting crap? FYI her passive is included in that kit you reference and apparently you let it go to waste. No one is doubting the passive is strong in laning phase, but over investment in a purely laning phase strength item on a overall kit is played at max range post laning phase, is rather bad investment. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 24 2014 17:00 Omnishroud wrote: The lichbane conversation ended a while ago after 5HIT and MB weighed in with its actual effectiveness vs more AP. You and others were rofloling saying a Lux shouldnt even be autoattacking in the first place. Why are you spouting crap? FYI her passive is included in that kit you reference and apparently you let it go to waste. Side note: Lux passive is proc'd by her ult so it's not like it goes to waste if you don't auto. When wei2coolman and FinestHour were rofling about autoattacking, it was in the context of a 5v5 AND in the context of building a Sheen/Lichbane, in which case it's pretty justified. | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On February 24 2014 12:59 oneofthem wrote: noname acutally decent on the two wukongs he has played. please continue until uzi cometh I've forgotten. Is Uzi coming when LMQ gets into LCS or what's the arrangement? Vasilii is top 3 ADC in the NA scene right now. Sure, Uzi was/can be on a totally, totally different level, but really? Edit: I don't want to see Uzi play mid lane in NA either. LMQ has gotten pretty good shotcalling/synergy over the last couple months and without a Tabe to control Uzi, I don't know what the team atmosphere's going to be like with him suddenly in the team. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
On February 24 2014 17:13 Ryuu314 wrote: Side note: Lux passive is proc'd by her ult so it's not like it goes to waste if you don't auto. When wei2coolman and FinestHour were rofling about autoattacking, it was in the context of a 5v5 AND in the context of building a Sheen/Lichbane, in which case it's pretty justified. Not at all. They were stating that autoattacking on lux is just bad regardless and not the way "her kit is played" or how she is played. It was a completely seperate statement from the lichbane suggestion that continued before and after it had been dismissed. And autoattacking in a 5v5 with lux, or anybody, for the last time is not a bad thing. @5HIT positioning is a completely different beast to the conversation at hand, positioning takes priority ofc but i dont think you ever position in a way where you cant lay an autoattack down on something because then you are far too out of range of their backline. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On February 24 2014 17:00 Omnishroud wrote: The lichbane conversation ended a while ago after 5HIT and MB weighed in with its actual effectiveness vs more AP. You and others were rofloling saying a Lux shouldnt even be autoattacking in the first place. Why are you spouting crap? FYI her passive is included in that kit you reference and apparently you let it go to waste. Mmmmmm... to be honest though, if you're within auto range as Lux in a 5v5 that you aren't chasing them down, you're most likely out of position or losing the fight lol  .Obviously you should take all the free shots you get, but if I had to choose between Lux auto or positioning I'd probably pick positioning 100% of the time and be right about 99% of the time. | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On February 24 2014 18:36 AlterKot wrote: Uzi is playing midlane now and LMQ said in an AMA that he is likely to come to the US once he turns 17 if LMQ is in LCS by then. Yeah, I know he's playing mid atm. There was some speculation when LMQ first came that when/if Uzi came to NA, he would go back to playing ADC. Uzi's mid play hasn't been very inspiring even if he doesn't seem motivated recently. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
noone seems to understand that it is intentionally less gold-efficient on manaless champs because they get free sustain from it | ||
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Gahlo
United States35160 Posts
On February 24 2014 19:26 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: will the "buff spellvamp by removing mana regen from WotA" thread ever stop getting posted every two days on reddit? noone seems to understand that it is intentionally less gold-efficient on manaless champs because they get free sustain from it No, reddit is full of bad opinions. | ||
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Drium
United States888 Posts
On February 24 2014 19:26 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: will the "buff spellvamp by removing mana regen from WotA" thread ever stop getting posted every two days on reddit? noone seems to understand that it is intentionally less gold-efficient on manaless champs because they get free sustain from it I don't think it's that bad of an idea. Nobody buys wota, very few manaless ap casters are getting picked in competitive play, and if they are picked they don't build wota. | ||
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