EPTMajor changes to SotAG!
PBE Discussion Thread - Page 14
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
Major changes to SotAG! | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me). | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
The lifesteal on BT is still nerfed pretty heavily so the BT sorta fills the "I just want a shitload of AD" item, kinda like Deathcap, or I guess exactly now. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On June 26 2014 11:21 Kinie wrote: Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE. Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me). It matches full stack BT at 200 bonus AD, which is roughly an extra 100 post BT, runes, and masteries. I don't see it getting much play outside of the Dcap "I have some X and I want a lot more X" as the bonus isn't all that hot without some direct impact. Makes it an even better late game power curve for AD casters if they want to shirk a defencive item or don't need both armor pens. I still think the 3500 pricetag is pretty prohibitive as a rush item. Reaver is still waiting for Riot to open their eyes and see that a Forbidden Idol fits perfectly into it's build path/intent. AG looks promising. I don't think Tenacity loss with be much of an issue, seeing that most champions that build it would prefer merc's anyway. One thing I would like to see though: Spirit Stone is no longer in SotAG's recipe, the Coat taking it's place. I'm interested to see if we'll have any changes to Madred's and have that sneak into SotEL's and just phase out Spirit Stone entirely. On June 26 2014 11:58 Slusher wrote: I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated. At least this will quiet the masses without giving an incredible benefit. It's only twice as good as the mastery which people think is shit anyway. AD is just too expensive without a high multiplier or people that sit on it for everything(Riven.) | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 26 2014 11:21 Kinie wrote: Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE. Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me). The certain threshold you are talking about is 300AD. The old one gives you 30 bonus damage and 6% lifesteal, but to get 30 bonus damage now, you need to have 300AD, which is quite a long time. To reach 30 bonus damage back then, you need to kill 15 minions, to reach 300 AD now, you need like 10k, 12k gold of items. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On June 26 2014 11:58 Slusher wrote: I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated. Those same people will be whinging even harder for an AD Zhonya's now I bet. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Have they stealth reverted the ahri jungle bug with her resetting camps with charm? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
Essence Reaver crowding out BT, bunch of non-SR item changes. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
They really want people to buy Essence Reaver. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote: Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though. They really want people to buy Essence Reaver. They're doing it in the completely wrong way. The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game. If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On July 04 2014 17:52 Ryuu314 wrote: They're doing it in the completely wrong way. The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game. If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore. Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 04 2014 19:48 Gahlo wrote: Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path. except the difference is AP carries use spells for damage. AD carries use auto attacks for damage. Outside of a few edge cases, when was the last time you legit had mana problems on an AD carry? Especially after level 7~8, which is about when you'd finish an Essence Reaver, even if you rush it first item. Maybe on Corki? But with Corki you'd much rather rush a Triforce. By the time you finish Triforce plus have another 3.5k, mana generally isn't an issue anymore. AD bruisers won't buy Essence Reaver since they usually can only afford 1 or 2 damage items, and ER is far outclassed by Bork and Triforce. Most AD assassins won't buy it either since either their mana usage is pretty minimal or nonexistent. On top of that, a huge part of why Athene's is good is because it gives the perfect amount of CDR and the magic resist on it lets you not die. The only other AP+ 20% CDR options are Morellonomicon and Nashor's, both of which are decidedly more niche. The only other AP+MR option is Abyssal, which just sucks after all its nerfs, unless you're running a double AP comp, which doesn't really happen nowadays. The only AD champs that would ever want mana regen are AD poke champs: old W max Kha, Jayce, Urgot, blue build Ez. Kha'zix no longer revolves around poke and blue build Ez is strictly inferior to Triforce->Blade builds. That leaves you with 2 champions out of the entire pool who might ant to buy ER and even then, Muramana (assuming the changes don't go through) might be better. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On July 04 2014 19:58 Ryuu314 wrote: except the difference is AP carries use spells for damage. AD carries use auto attacks for damage. Outside of a few edge cases, when was the last time you legit had mana problems on an AD carry? Especially after level 7~8, which is about when you'd finish an Essence Reaver, even if you rush it first item. Maybe on Corki? But with Corki you'd much rather rush a Triforce. By the time you finish Triforce plus have another 3.5k, mana generally isn't an issue anymore. AD bruisers won't buy Essence Reaver since they usually can only afford 1 or 2 damage items, and ER is far outclassed by Bork and Triforce. Most AD assassins won't buy it either since either their mana usage is pretty minimal or nonexistent. On top of that, a huge part of why Athene's is good is because it gives the perfect amount of CDR and the magic resist on it lets you not die. The only other AP+ 20% CDR options are Morellonomicon and Nashor's, both of which are decidedly more niche. The only other AP+MR option is Abyssal, which just sucks after all its nerfs, unless you're running a double AP comp, which doesn't really happen nowadays. The only AD champs that would ever want mana regen are AD poke champs: old W max Kha, Jayce, Urgot, blue build Ez. Kha'zix no longer revolves around poke and blue build Ez is strictly inferior to Triforce->Blade builds. That leaves you with 2 champions out of the entire pool who might ant to buy ER and even then, Muramana (assuming the changes don't go through) might be better. Except that the group of AD "caster" Carries benefit greatly from popping their spells out. Some get more damage benefits by using their spell, such as Lucian getting his doubleshot passive which triggers Reaver again. Then there's champions like Pantheon who are taken into lane and played as an AD caster, yet have to buy chalice at times for any sort of mana regen because he can't stack tear well and his Q manacost is mega prohibitive. Where the fuck are you getting 3.5k mana from? Corki + Triforce at level 18 is 1109 mana. Reaver provides CDR and Lifesteal, a rarity on AD items and adding survivability so you can "not die." Athene's defencive prowess is dramatically less after it's recent nerf. The only other AD/mana item is Muramana, which a lot of champions have a shit time of stacking. Hurray for not slow as fuck power curves because of item restrictions! How is double AP niche? Rumble is becoming a very strong pick in soloq and we're seeing more Lulus and Kayles in top lane every day. Just because champions have an option that sucks doesn't mean they shouldn't have one that's better. | ||
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