• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:25
CET 17:25
KST 01:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.174Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League92
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 Evil Geniuses - shutting down REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development No more SC2 streamers on team liquid?
Tourneys
RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup BW General Discussion Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Do we even care about balance?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [BSL23] RO24 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9972 users

PBE Discussion Thread - Page 14

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 Next All
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
June 26 2014 01:56 GMT
#261
Updated for the changes over the last 3 days, will update compiled list shortly.

Major changes to SotAG!
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
June 26 2014 02:21 GMT
#262
Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE.

Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me).
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
June 26 2014 02:51 GMT
#263
the initial nerf to BT was a mistake though, if their stated reason for buffing IE was to make multiple build paths viable, making BT one of the worst ad items in the game was not going to accomplish that, IE was just going to replace BT and Bork was going to keep it's zone on lock.

The lifesteal on BT is still nerfed pretty heavily so the BT sorta fills the "I just want a shitload of AD" item, kinda like Deathcap, or I guess exactly now.
Carrilord has arrived.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
June 26 2014 02:52 GMT
#264
giving BT the %ad passive was probably the idea all along, they just wanted to lower people's expectations and make sure that it did in fact suck without the passive first.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
June 26 2014 02:58 GMT
#265
I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated.
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 03:38:08
June 26 2014 03:36 GMT
#266
On June 26 2014 11:21 Kinie wrote:
Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE.

Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me).

It matches full stack BT at 200 bonus AD, which is roughly an extra 100 post BT, runes, and masteries. I don't see it getting much play outside of the Dcap "I have some X and I want a lot more X" as the bonus isn't all that hot without some direct impact. Makes it an even better late game power curve for AD casters if they want to shirk a defencive item or don't need both armor pens. I still think the 3500 pricetag is pretty prohibitive as a rush item.

Reaver is still waiting for Riot to open their eyes and see that a Forbidden Idol fits perfectly into it's build path/intent.

AG looks promising. I don't think Tenacity loss with be much of an issue, seeing that most champions that build it would prefer merc's anyway.

One thing I would like to see though: Spirit Stone is no longer in SotAG's recipe, the Coat taking it's place. I'm interested to see if we'll have any changes to Madred's and have that sneak into SotEL's and just phase out Spirit Stone entirely.

On June 26 2014 11:58 Slusher wrote:
I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated.

At least this will quiet the masses without giving an incredible benefit. It's only twice as good as the mastery which people think is shit anyway. AD is just too expensive without a high multiplier or people that sit on it for everything(Riven.)
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
June 26 2014 03:45 GMT
#267
machete and spirit golem got buffed gg
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 26 2014 03:48 GMT
#268
The new Nidalee is secretly far more toxic than the old Nidalee. The reality is, that there probably hasn't been a more snowbally champion in LOL that wasn't a jungler since the end of Season 2 (at a minimum). I gave an early kill to one because of a lvl 2 gank (wtf?) and basically could not CS the rest of lane (if not under tower), but also have gotten mild leads on her which meant she had to constantly CS under tower, and my whole team could basically ignore her the whole game. There is a reason that they kept killing Cougar Form in the past, and its not because its a good thing to balance around.
Freeeeeeedom
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-26 03:58:52
June 26 2014 03:57 GMT
#269
On June 26 2014 11:21 Kinie wrote:
Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE.

Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me).

The certain threshold you are talking about is 300AD. The old one gives you 30 bonus damage and 6% lifesteal, but to get 30 bonus damage now, you need to have 300AD, which is quite a long time. To reach 30 bonus damage back then, you need to kill 15 minions, to reach 300 AD now, you need like 10k, 12k gold of items.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
June 26 2014 07:45 GMT
#270
On June 26 2014 11:58 Slusher wrote:
I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated.

Those same people will be whinging even harder for an AD Zhonya's now I bet.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
June 27 2014 17:32 GMT
#271
Minor Nidalee nerf, Skarner Q nerfs, BT and Ghostblade reverted.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 02 2014 02:18 GMT
#272
BT and Ghostblade back up. Minor Ahri change.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-02 12:33:23
July 02 2014 12:33 GMT
#273
Lol GB nerf

Have they stealth reverted the ahri jungle bug with her resetting camps with charm?
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 03 2014 16:06 GMT
#274
BT's % AD removed again, yet other nerfs to it remain. Sona Rework.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 04 2014 05:46 GMT
#275
Alistar, Kha buffs. Thresh nerfs. Ezreal confusion.

Essence Reaver crowding out BT, bunch of non-SR item changes.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
July 04 2014 06:55 GMT
#276
Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.

They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-04 08:54:50
July 04 2014 08:52 GMT
#277
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote:
Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.

They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.

They're doing it in the completely wrong way.

The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.

If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 04 2014 10:48 GMT
#278
On July 04 2014 17:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote:
Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.

They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.

They're doing it in the completely wrong way.

The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.

If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.

Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-04 11:06:08
July 04 2014 10:58 GMT
#279
On July 04 2014 19:48 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 17:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote:
Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.

They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.

They're doing it in the completely wrong way.

The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.

If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.

Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path.

except the difference is AP carries use spells for damage. AD carries use auto attacks for damage. Outside of a few edge cases, when was the last time you legit had mana problems on an AD carry? Especially after level 7~8, which is about when you'd finish an Essence Reaver, even if you rush it first item. Maybe on Corki? But with Corki you'd much rather rush a Triforce. By the time you finish Triforce plus have another 3.5k, mana generally isn't an issue anymore. AD bruisers won't buy Essence Reaver since they usually can only afford 1 or 2 damage items, and ER is far outclassed by Bork and Triforce. Most AD assassins won't buy it either since either their mana usage is pretty minimal or nonexistent.

On top of that, a huge part of why Athene's is good is because it gives the perfect amount of CDR and the magic resist on it lets you not die. The only other AP+ 20% CDR options are Morellonomicon and Nashor's, both of which are decidedly more niche. The only other AP+MR option is Abyssal, which just sucks after all its nerfs, unless you're running a double AP comp, which doesn't really happen nowadays.

The only AD champs that would ever want mana regen are AD poke champs: old W max Kha, Jayce, Urgot, blue build Ez.
Kha'zix no longer revolves around poke and blue build Ez is strictly inferior to Triforce->Blade builds. That leaves you with 2 champions out of the entire pool who might ant to buy ER and even then, Muramana (assuming the changes don't go through) might be better.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 04 2014 11:37 GMT
#280
On July 04 2014 19:58 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2014 19:48 Gahlo wrote:
On July 04 2014 17:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote:
Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.

They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.

They're doing it in the completely wrong way.

The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.

If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.

Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path.

except the difference is AP carries use spells for damage. AD carries use auto attacks for damage. Outside of a few edge cases, when was the last time you legit had mana problems on an AD carry? Especially after level 7~8, which is about when you'd finish an Essence Reaver, even if you rush it first item. Maybe on Corki? But with Corki you'd much rather rush a Triforce. By the time you finish Triforce plus have another 3.5k, mana generally isn't an issue anymore. AD bruisers won't buy Essence Reaver since they usually can only afford 1 or 2 damage items, and ER is far outclassed by Bork and Triforce. Most AD assassins won't buy it either since either their mana usage is pretty minimal or nonexistent.

On top of that, a huge part of why Athene's is good is because it gives the perfect amount of CDR and the magic resist on it lets you not die. The only other AP+ 20% CDR options are Morellonomicon and Nashor's, both of which are decidedly more niche. The only other AP+MR option is Abyssal, which just sucks after all its nerfs, unless you're running a double AP comp, which doesn't really happen nowadays.

The only AD champs that would ever want mana regen are AD poke champs: old W max Kha, Jayce, Urgot, blue build Ez.
Kha'zix no longer revolves around poke and blue build Ez is strictly inferior to Triforce->Blade builds. That leaves you with 2 champions out of the entire pool who might ant to buy ER and even then, Muramana (assuming the changes don't go through) might be better.

Except that the group of AD "caster" Carries benefit greatly from popping their spells out. Some get more damage benefits by using their spell, such as Lucian getting his doubleshot passive which triggers Reaver again. Then there's champions like Pantheon who are taken into lane and played as an AD caster, yet have to buy chalice at times for any sort of mana regen because he can't stack tear well and his Q manacost is mega prohibitive. Where the fuck are you getting 3.5k mana from? Corki + Triforce at level 18 is 1109 mana.

Reaver provides CDR and Lifesteal, a rarity on AD items and adding survivability so you can "not die." Athene's defencive prowess is dramatically less after it's recent nerf. The only other AD/mana item is Muramana, which a lot of champions have a shit time of stacking. Hurray for not slow as fuck power curves because of item restrictions! How is double AP niche? Rumble is becoming a very strong pick in soloq and we're seeing more Lulus and Kayles in top lane every day.

Just because champions have an option that sucks doesn't mean they shouldn't have one that's better.
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:15
OSC 5000
WardiTV786
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 191
BRAT_OK 29
Codebar 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2613
Jaedong 1112
Mini 793
FanTaSy 721
Larva 495
Shuttle 493
EffOrt 348
Stork 293
Sharp 211
hero 147
[ Show more ]
Mind 116
Zeus 95
Dewaltoss 85
White-Ra 76
Hyun 72
Snow 69
Sea.KH 63
Trap 35
JYJ 32
910 27
Barracks 25
ToSsGirL 24
Shine 12
Free 10
Sacsri 10
soO 9
Dota 2
Gorgc20440
qojqva1459
syndereN331
Counter-Strike
x6flipin129
edward22
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes602
Lowko386
XaKoH 139
Other Games
singsing1476
FrodaN535
Liquid`VortiX271
Hui .185
mouzStarbuck152
KnowMe56
Trikslyr53
QueenE36
fpsfer 3
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL36303
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 5
• Pr0nogo 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1448
• TFBlade1179
• Jankos794
Upcoming Events
GSL
19h 35m
Epic.LAN
20h 35m
OSC
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 17h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 19h
Epic.LAN
1d 20h
IPSL
1d 23h
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
Yamato Cup
2 days
IPSL
3 days
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
4 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-28
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.