[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 27
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
1:24 since timestamp doesn't seem to work | ||
Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On January 17 2014 12:32 ketchup wrote: I know it is PBE and all, but this Ashe change looks like it goes against everything Riot believes in. At least in regards to their design philosophies, they are always talking about how they do not want a skill that is a single point skill in any champion's skill set. That's exactly what that E change does. There's absolutely no reason to put more than one point in that skill at any early level. Put one point in, and then forget it exists. This is not something they should ever be considering. I should not read these PBE stuff ever. Always a bit frustrating. What about Season 4 hasn't? The only change that I think was great is the Inhibitor rule, because it makes things work better (the pushing lane pushes harder for the aggressor, the other lanes don't automatically shaft the defender), and thus increases optionality (you don't need pick massive amounts of waveclear and go for S3 push strats), while making the game simpler and easier to understand. Everything else might be an attempt to solve a problem they see (ignoring whether it is a problem or not), but fixed in the most asinine and overcomplicated manner. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
So fun to, when ahead, just stack giants belts and be like THESE ARE DAMAGE ITEMS LOL Also fun to engage from 2500 range. That's fun too. | ||
Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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UnKooL
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On January 17 2014 13:48 Dusty wrote: Ever since that dude picked Lulu vs Faker's Orianna, KR soloq has been seeing Lulu mid in almost every game it feels like (yes even at the challenger level). She seems really good as a midlaner. There's a top player name Neverdie TopLuLu who plays for amateur team called Clan Mook that played first played a lot of top lulu since she came out on season 2. Shes been played on and off as mostly top lane and a little mid in high elo in kr server. | ||
Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On January 17 2014 12:32 ketchup wrote: I know it is PBE and all, but this Ashe change looks like it goes against everything Riot believes in. At least in regards to their design philosophies, they are always talking about how they do not want a skill that is a single point skill in any champion's skill set. That's exactly what that E change does. There's absolutely no reason to put more than one point in that skill at any early level. Put one point in, and then forget it exists. This is not something they should ever be considering. I should not read these PBE stuff ever. Always a bit frustrating. "against what Riot believes in" has never stopped them | ||
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Except she is mana constrained Jungle Nasus is alive and well. Played him in placements just now-- did okay earlygame, then we stalled out till lategame when I had 4K hp and like 300/200 resists and like 500 stacks. Took me like 2 hits to kill their AD's and 5 for their full tank Singed. Fun stuff. Had a pretty nice backdoor where they were doing Baron, then I tele'd bot and took out half their base too. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On January 17 2014 14:13 Ryuu314 wrote: "against what Riot believes in" has never stopped them I'd like to suggest that making a statement that is basically "I know what you're thinking better than you do" is kind of dumb, by the way. | ||
JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
My last game I witnessed glass cannon Yasuo get monstrously fed. He was something like 25/6 by the end. If you have a team that is remotely synergistic, he is OP. He was unstoppable. I was Nami and one teamfight I hit a good Tidal Wave that caught pretty much all of the opposing team. That fight lasted about 2 seconds and was a clean ace for us. It was brutal. God I wish we had replays, it was glorious. EDIT: SolCrushed admitted the turret change is inelegant, but it's what they thought was best. They also considered making Dragon spawn earlier as another solution to lane swaps. | ||
ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On January 17 2014 13:24 Ketara wrote: I am having so much fun on Sejuani now, man. So fun to, when ahead, just stack giants belts and be like THESE ARE DAMAGE ITEMS LOL Also fun to engage from 2500 range. That's fun too. I love champs like that, stack belts Volibear style once you get fed and you're just this unkillable monstrosity | ||
YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
On January 17 2014 12:32 ketchup wrote: I know it is PBE and all, but this Ashe change looks like it goes against everything Riot believes in. At least in regards to their design philosophies, they are always talking about how they do not want a skill that is a single point skill in any champion's skill set. That's exactly what that E change does. There's absolutely no reason to put more than one point in that skill at any early level. Put one point in, and then forget it exists. This is not something they should ever be considering. I should not read these PBE stuff ever. Always a bit frustrating. Did Riot really say they don't want single point skills? Because I can think of a ton of champions that seem to intentionally have skills that are not even close to being good to level up early when compared to the alternatives. | ||
FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
every single champ does that, u just have 2 other skills that are just better then ur 3rd one so u leave only 1 in the last one what is there to even complain about | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On January 17 2014 12:32 ketchup wrote: I know it is PBE and all, but this Ashe change looks like it goes against everything Riot believes in. At least in regards to their design philosophies, they are always talking about how they do not want a skill that is a single point skill in any champion's skill set. That's exactly what that E change does. There's absolutely no reason to put more than one point in that skill at any early level. Put one point in, and then forget it exists. This is not something they should ever be considering. I should not read these PBE stuff ever. Always a bit frustrating. Err, the Ashe changes are fantastic. You only leveled E after W (lane control/damage) and Q (signature CC) and ulti anyways. Increases her gold gain when it matters, and besides leveled E was for scouting utility, which this improves pretty substantially lategame. On January 17 2014 12:47 FinestHour wrote: that was butt clenchingly gay to to read but u are probably right Why would you clench tho. Relax. | ||
Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
On January 17 2014 12:47 FinestHour wrote: that was butt clenchingly gay to to read but u are probably right ^this | ||
Gahlo
United States35154 Posts
On January 17 2014 15:13 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I love champs like that, stack belts Volibear style once you get fed and you're just this unkillable monstrosity A friend and I refer to this as "The Final Fantasy build." | ||
UnKooL
Korea (South)1667 Posts
Timeframe: January 16th 8:20pm Eastern to January 17th 2:44am (approx 6 hours, 10 conescutive games nonstop, no breaks) S3 End Rank: Diamond 2 80lp (Mid Main) (Peak ELO Diamond 1 30lp) S4 Placements Battle Report: 5 Wins 5 Losses (4-4 record as Mid, 1-0 Jungle, 0-1 Support) S4 Placement Rank: Plat 2 Darius's Wizards [Achievement: Fastest TLer to do placements] COMPLETED! Shoutouts to FinestHour and Dgiese. The Dream is Alive boys and it begins here! Good Night and Good Luck, and Godspeed fellow TLers! Add Me on UnKooL I want more friends... VODS of all 10 placement matches: http://www.twitch.tv/unkool18/b/495790679 | ||
Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On January 17 2014 15:03 JazzVortical wrote: Placements so far: 2 wins, 1 loss. Loss was a 4 v 5 so not much to say there. My last game I witnessed glass cannon Yasuo get monstrously fed. He was something like 25/6 by the end. If you have a team that is remotely synergistic, he is OP. He was unstoppable. I was Nami and one teamfight I hit a good Tidal Wave that caught pretty much all of the opposing team. That fight lasted about 2 seconds and was a clean ace for us. It was brutal. God I wish we had replays, it was glorious. EDIT: SolCrushed admitted the turret change is inelegant, but it's what they thought was best. They also considered making Dragon spawn earlier as another solution to lane swaps. Riot reasoning + Show Spoiler + In this patch we have added a 20 flat damage reduction buff to the top and mid lane outer turrets on Summoners Rift - a super-Dorans Shield of sorts. This change is directly targeted at "Fast Push" strategies, where teams swap a 2v2 lane to a 2v1 lane to avoid equal lane matchups while quickly pushing down an enemy outer turret and securing an early gold+vision advantage (and in some cases ALSO hiding a weak lane). Fast Push has been a very common early game strategy in high competitive play across all of our regions. One problem we've always had with Fast Push is that it's arguably one of the more optimal strategies to employ in competitive play and when it picks up in popularity it can really inhibit other strategies. The laning phase of the game is important to us in terms of League being a spectator sport and enjoyable experience. That said, we're not absolutely enforce a laning phase for every competitive game, but we do like maintaining the value of a laning phase and want to introduce more strategic tradeoffs when a team opts to skip it. This is our third major change to turrets in the past year aimed at moderating Fast Push, and Ill go through the two prior changes and briefly discuss their impact: The latter half of 2012 and beginning of 2013 was dominated lane swaps to 3-4 man dives on the defending solo laner. After letting this play out for some time, we increased the damage dealt by turrets in April (Patch 3.5) to allow the solo laner and his jungler to make turnaround plays under tower. This opened space for melee solo laners to function more effectively in the early 1v2 and expanded the focus of junglers from just their early levels to their entire game presence. The middle of 2013 was still dominated by lane swapping - now with building a large minion wave and pushing the tower down through raw damage - while also relying on the threat of minion damage to prevent the solo laner from retaliating. In September (Patch 3.10), we added temporary bonus armor to all outer turrets. This re-opened the door for a host of supports, most prominently melee champions like Leona and Alistar, by delaying the power of Fast Push strategies beyond the point where basic attack range was the primary value that a duo laner can bring. Currently, Fast Push is still exerting a strong limitation on the viability of champions, mostly due to the strategy not having any meaningful downside. Fast Push occurs too early in the game for Dragon to be a meaningful deterrent and for champions to have the tools necessary to combat them (475 gold and one ability). Since the team initiating the swap does not take meaningful risks, the opposing champion needs to function well in a 1v2 or 2v1 lane as a baseline judgement, and that limits the pool significantly. This current change is aimed to introduce a real strategic tradeoff for the team initiating the lane swap, and it opens the door to a wider variety of champions. After the change, teams shouldn't feel hopeless if they pick a weak 1v2 lane champion, as the other team will take a penalty (slow push) if they wish to shut the champion down. We think that with these increased variables, teams will actually need to consider their strategy in initiating lane swaps. We specifically chose this solution because there are limited ways to introduce these kind of strategic tradeoffs. Since the team initiating the lane swap leaves behind a 1v2 at bot, any symmetrical changes would not actually open up the space we want it to. The current solution was picked as the one that would have the least impact on other elements of the game and non-pro level games. We're currently planning on making this change only last for a shorter set duration of time so that it won't have an affect on most games outside of highly competitive play (as it takes an incredible amount of coordination for this change to have an effect). Ultimately we have a core belief that League should be won on player capabilities and strategic execution rather than who picks a faster pushing team (and then picks a better counterpusher in a 1v2 lane). With this change we're hoping to see more equal lane matchups as a viable primary strategy in the 2014 season, with an increased emphasis on kills and dragons as a means of accruing a global gold lead. Still, we're not absolutely dictating it. We expect to see some 1v2 laning, but with actual strategic risks. Now, teams might 1v2 to shelter a weak early duo lane or to shut down a threatening solo laner. That said, in turn they'll pay a cost in the form of a potential early turret deficit, unless they can hold the opposing bottom lane push at bay. P.S. Both Morello and Pwyff mentioned the 20 damage reduction lasts only for the first 8 minutes of the game, but they goofed for patch 4.1. We -want- it to be a set duration of time (and it will be in patch 4.2), but it's currently permanent. One thing I'd mention is that minions actually count for a lot of turret damage, and this change doesn't affect that. Also when you get to 10 minutes and beyond, 20 base damage reduction gets hard outscaled as champion damage goes up. Making turrets harder to take doesn't bother me that much. The part that bothers me is the fact that it is asymmetric. I think 2v1 is a perfectly legitimate strategy because while teams can try to avoid 2v2's, it is possible to force it if you plan out a strategy to. Honestly if it was up to me, I would rather buff dshield even more. Something like an additional reduces multitarget/AoE spell damage by 5 and probably a +2 mp5 buff there to hopefully get some more mana users into the 1v2/offlane solo role, rather than trying to kill 2v1 as a strategy. I'd rather give the "1" more options. | ||
FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
rofl am i going plat 2 to gold 2 now jesus 3-4 end of today | ||
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