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Alaric
France45622 Posts
His passive won't save him from frontloaded burst outside of lane, and in a meta where gold flows everywhere his weak scaling is a huge liability. Also if you want AoE damage just pick Jinx and derp ult, beats his on every turn except if you use it on a bunch of full health targets (and then the problem's with you, not Jinx). | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On February 04 2014 19:56 M2 wrote: Why no one is playing Graves anymore? Is there something wrong with him? For example if you compare him with Lucian, they have similar skill sets to some extend, however, Graves has better starting statistics + better scaling on most of his ratios, still no one picks him 1) he outright loses to caitlyn 2) jinx is a champ you can also pick | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On February 04 2014 19:56 M2 wrote: Why no one is playing Graves anymore? Is there something wrong with him? For example if you compare him with Lucian, they have similar skill sets to some extend, however, Graves has better starting statistics + better scaling on most of his ratios, still no one picks him lucian shoots lasers graves is just an old cowboy on parole | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On February 04 2014 19:37 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: so i just decided to start streaming solely because it's better than lolreplay for rewatching my games, and i hope noone actually watches me because i'm terrible No subforum streamer can escape my gaze.. ಠ_ಠ Fear not citizen I'll make sure I am the worst player here. I do wish Graves could see play again, I really enjoy the concept of a shotgun cowboy who hates Twisted Fate, everyone should hate twisted fate. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4129 Posts
On February 04 2014 20:38 Parnage wrote: I do wish Graves could see play again, I really enjoy the concept of a shotgun cowboy who hates Twisted Fate, everyone should hate twisted fate. I suppose this is the problem with issuing so many (new) champs. At one point you cannot avoid some of them becoming pretty similar, loosing their uniqueness but one of them just being superior to the other  | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On February 04 2014 20:38 Parnage wrote: No subforum streamer can escape my gaze.. ಠ_ಠ Fear not citizen I'll make sure I am the worst player here. I do wish Graves could see play again, I really enjoy the concept of a shotgun cowboy who hates Twisted Fate, everyone should hate twisted fate. You take that back. TF is awesome. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
AD TF only. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 04 2014 21:17 M2 wrote: I suppose this is the problem with issuing so many (new) champs. At one point you cannot avoid some of them becoming pretty similar, loosing their uniqueness but one of them just being superior to the other You could easily tweak Jinx's ult not to simply be a better Graves ult though. Raise the distance/time necessary or it to reach full damage, play around the values so that it doesn't do as much damage unless really used as an execute, make it slower so it's easier to dodge, raise the cooldown so it's not that spammable, etc. Having an AoE execution with global range still fits a mayhem maiden with the longest auto range in the game pretty well. It's a shame Graves doesn't bring anything to a comp (other than his W) because he's still super satisfying to play. I'm biased because I played Sivir, Ezreal then him to use skillshots and casting AD carries (what should I say, I prefer pushing buttons over clicking stuff), but Collateral Damage is pretty cool as a finisher, between the super snappy casting time and projectile speed, the animation (dat recoil) and the sound effect as it blows somebody up. Sure, stuff like Nidalee or Lux can be satisfying to hit, I guess (never felt good at hitting stuff with Lux, contrary to, say Morgana, but the fact that you can mindlessly spam w/o regard to cooldowns or mana past grail, because you will end up hitting one, doesn't help), but they're still relatively slow skillshots. Graves doesn't have as much range, and you commit because it's on a real cooldown (albeit still lower than average), but when you snip that running dude, or 100-0 a Sona at point-blank range, you press that button and BAM, instant gratification. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Help guys, I really want to play Jayce in current season but he gets raped by a lot of ppl, especially top. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4129 Posts
On February 04 2014 22:56 739 wrote: Damn. I can't resist the temptation of playing Jayce but I have no idea how to run him 100% properly in S4. I feel like maxing R > Q > W > E is better than R > Q > E > W, after the CD nerf and stuff. No idea about the Maramune as well, dunno if it's not a waste of gold since You can get better dmg items instead. Help guys, I really want to play Jayce in current season but he gets raped by a lot of ppl, especially top. I think Jayce is more or less mid champion now, where you can go pure damage, skip tear/maramune and rely on the blue buff:-). Not sure about the skill order though. He just doesn't cut it for a proper top champ in this tanky top meta at the moment and he is also not an assassin (which is the other viable top type to some extend). | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4129 Posts
On February 04 2014 23:08 739 wrote: How about the skill order? You still go for the pokey style R>Q>E>W or after the nerfs You should go for R>Q>W>E ? And what about the items? Still rushing Tear first into Manamune and stacking hard? Or skipping Tear, somehow begging ur jungler for blue buff and going for pure dmg? Or build him more tanky? What about the runes? Still some lifesteal? Or maybe manareg runes and skipping tear? damn, no idea. If you follow my advice for going Jayce mid then you go pure damage (this is what is expected from the mid, right?) So you skip tear and manamune, since they stack too slow now due to the transformation not affecting the tear. You should rely on the blue buff. Also the skill order should be more bruiser oriented (I cant remember which one was W and E, but the poke skill is not so good early/mid game now) For the runes I guess hyou have to experiment what works best for you, but should be damage oriented | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Sure Graves' is nigh-instant, but Jinx's is fast enough that it doesn't offset the damage/range/AoE/cooldown advantage in the least. You can still go for the Tear. Just because it's not filled by 20 minutes anymore doesn't mean it's suddenly bad, and Muramana still hits like a truck with Muramana. Other possibilities include bruta->BT or straight-up BT, since your poke won't benefit from triforce while you have excellent AD scaling on both Qs, cannonW and hammerE. With acceleration gate a fixed 16s cd now, unless you get enough CDR rolling (ionian boots+blue buff used to be enough, but the blue's CDR's been nerfed, would be 30% with boots and masteries, still 40% with bruta though) it shouldn't be that interesting to level-up E, especially if you're mid where you won't need the disengage as much. I guess there's mainly 2 approaches: bruising with triforce and R>Q>E>W, poking/bursting with Muramana/BT, skilling Q>W>E/R. R's main thing is the % resistances shred in cannon form, which isn't interesting till mid-late game when people get tankier anyway, and the bonus resistances in hammer form which, while making Jayce one of the innately tankiest champions in the game, are only useful if you intend to spend time fighting in melee form rather than only to finish off opponents with the nuke combo. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On February 04 2014 23:08 739 wrote: How about the skill order? You still go for the pokey style R>Q>E>W or after the nerfs You should go for R>Q>W>E ? And what about the items? Still rushing Tear first into Manamune and stacking hard? Or skipping Tear, somehow begging ur jungler for blue buff and going for pure dmg? Or build him more tanky? What about the runes? Still some lifesteal? Or maybe manareg runes and skipping tear? damn, no idea. never ever take mana regen yellows on anyone, a few in blues is okay but generally you only want cdr/mr for blues on guys like Jayce W vs E maxing is pretty much, W destroys squishy targets and E should only be maxed second if the enemy has a bunch of high hp targets that you need to deal with. That being said, as someone who was a Jayce god in S3 and played him before he got discovered as being OP as balls, I'm not sure if Jayce is actually playable in the current meta. Mids right now are just sooooo strong early game and can probably just crush Jayce 1v1, and the tankfest up toplane is just a nightmare for him. You can also be a huge dickhead and jungle Jayce and just whore your bluebuffs for the first 20-25 minutes and stack your tear but your midlaner is probably going to lose very hard unless they're someone who doesn't depend on bluebuff at all (Yasuo, Katarina... nothing else comes to mind) Also just saw Alaric posted some stuff too, I pretty much agree with what he has to say, except please no Trinity Jayce. That shit aint right. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On February 04 2014 23:51 Sufficiency wrote: Maybe nowadays we should just pretend Jayce is melee and rely on his W in hammer form instead? I don't know; I think he needs some new approaches. I think he needs some buffs honestly. but Riot doesn't want to buff champions like Jayce/Ryze because the balance designers are shitheads who think that every strong champion with an "ANTI-FUN" kit needs to be nerfed into the ground for a year and a half, then reworked. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On February 04 2014 21:17 M2 wrote: I suppose this is the problem with issuing so many (new) champs. At one point you cannot avoid some of them becoming pretty similar, loosing their uniqueness but one of them just being superior to the other Mana costs is actually the big advantage Lucian has over Graves. If Graves mana costs were scaled to current AD equivs, I think he'd pick play back up again. | ||
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