EPTI won with Marten :C
But he called me a gold noob so i had to get my revenge C:
But for real, Thx for the games really fun ^^
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish - Page 79
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Next Playday: Monday, July 14th, 8.30 PM CET In-Game channel: "StillAlive" | ||
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Tymlegend
Netherlands42 Posts
I won with Marten :C But he called me a gold noob so i had to get my revenge C: But for real, Thx for the games really fun ^^ | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Of course, I'm at fault too, but I'd be happy if we get a little more back to the roots. | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On the same topic, I would really appreciate that people showing up for inhouses make sure they HAVE A WORKING MIC. Seriously, nothing sucks more than having a silent TS because 2 people don't have a mic/are wusses and don't dare to speak up / etc. We all have our accents (hi Randy), most of us don't speak perfect english, but no one cares - just make it so that you can speak if you're gonna take part. I'll do my best to try and revive these discussions next time, but I'll need help from my old timers here (looking at you doge/baton/prog/wheelie etc). Everyone is welcome to give their opinion - the most important is that we do talk and discuss what happened/should have been done/etc. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 05 2014 01:18 Prog wrote: While it certainly was fun, I miss real gamediscussions. There was no post-game analysis, very little planing overall (pretty much only about the laneswap in game 3) and also barely anything ingame. It kinda felt like soloq with people not-tryharding or being defeatist (not sure if that really is an english expression) very quickly. It really struck me that, as far as I perceived, noone even asked for advice, even though there were mistakes all over the place. Of course, I'm at fault too, but I'd be happy if we get a little more back to the roots. I think there's always going to be less to discuss when the games are stomps, there's the first few mistakes, but after that it all just snowballs out of control, so quickly that it's pretty hard to isolate the actual individual mistakes, when they're the result of a player having to choose between two bad options. Close games have lots of positions where you have a right choice and a wrong choice, like going for a tower or going for baron and they're much easier to notice and rectify then when you have a choice between, for example, giving up dragon or giving up a tower because you're too far behind to fight. The games just felt a bit like one big mistake each game into that causing everything to fall apart. I mean, briefly: g1 (as lb) we killed marten at his blue, and then just invaded him a lot, I managed to get a few early roams off to make up for the xp/cs loss from the invading, and it just snowballed hard. You're team comp was pretty bad for fighting from behind unless you made picks, and didn't synergise that well, so akali never got going and renekton just got out outscaled even faster then usual. g2 I was bot with dandel and didn't really see much of the game, we just messed up lane by badly underestimating the strength of our all in vs lulu graves, and didn't play aggressive enough until it was too late. (we talked a bit about this during and after the game too.) Also we needed better wards, dunno what happened rest of the map but everything seemed to go equally bad as bot and we got rolled over in the mid game, tried to organise some split pushing but their engage + zeds ability to oneshot anyone but shyvana ended it. g3 (cait again) the start went confusing as hell, but i think we definitely ended up getting the better of it. We got really far ahead taking towers but sort of lost focus and you guys vaguely started getting a bit of gold, but eventually we grouped, got a big annie stun and just ended. It's a lot easier to ask for specific feedback then it is to give it, so if anyone has anything they're interested in discussing feel free to bring it up. It's just pretty hard to pinpoint mistakes when the games are that stompy, and are over by the 10 minute mark. I know I made a bunch of small personal mistakes, but I also recognise what I did wrong, and what I should have done instead in those situations, which doesn't make for that exciting discourse if it's just me talking to myself :p The only point where I was feeling like I was out of my depth was the laning in game 2, and I'd love to hear from prog/whoever about how caitlyn/leona vs graves/lulu (or any typical bursty adc/lulu) plays out, and when you can (or should) go aggressive, because I clearly misread the power curves of that matchup badly :p A snapshot of the teams if anyone's forgotten what/where they were in each game, top game is g3, bottom is g1. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CB5wYAm.png) | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
*Leona should probably start doran's shield here. You will usually not be able to reach lvl 2 first even with relic shield (because Graves/Lulu can push the first wave really well) and take a lot of Lulu's harass. Staying at enough health to be able to fight all-ins lvl 3-5 is important, so the additional tankyness and sustain of doran's helps. *You obviously need a bit of harass before Leona can initiate. At least before the first big item I think it is better to try to get harass on to Lulu and not Graves (if possible). Especially in this case with some ap runes on Lulu she is way squishier while doing similar dmg and has no lifesteal. So try to get Lulu to ~half hp then go all-in on her. As soon as Lulu has to fear being bursted by an all-in, the lane is all yours. *I'm not sure about the runes you had, but I like flat mr vs Lulu more than scaling mr, and some HP quints on Leona. *I don't think relic shield is good vs Lulu (too open to her harass), and in these (very strange) teamcompositions Talisman is certainly better lategame. *You know the warding stuff already ~~ *Frozen heart is worse than Randuins vs Zed, Graves and Lee as ad damage dealers. They are not as auto-attack dependent. Overall I think your teamcomp was the bigger problem. You had 2 teleports with at least Yi as splitpusher, but your only disengage was the Leona ultimate and your only real waveclear was Caitlyn, so you could not even stall 4v4. Then you had 3 people who have to go in to do anything in fights, but have a very difficult time doing so because the only way to engage is Leona (and you are playing against a midlane Nidalee so even more need for a good initiation). It just seems like there was little planing in your pickphase. If you want to go for a dedicated splitpush comp you could maybe get a waveclear midlaner like Ziggs and perhaps Sivir instead of Caitlyn so you get another disengage/engage tool. Pretty much the only way for you to win with Shy/Yi/Akali/Cait/Leona was to stomp lanes, otherwise I do not see how such a comp can possibly win. The teleport ganks bot also kinda failed, I don't really remember why though (I only remember that it was very close once). Maybe it had something to do with suboptimal wardplacement or simply the teleport timing. | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
When picking new champs or things like that, usually the games are so messy that it's hard to tell what were the mistakes. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
However, last week was when I didn't really understand why was I losing, I felt like my teams didn't really take games seriously and was sad that no one wanted to discuss what happened. I don't feel like I can offer much insight but I'd definitely appreciate if others would. BTW servers worked well this wednesday, but we managed to get 10 on thursday - should we stick to the latter? | ||
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Tymlegend
Netherlands42 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
we should really manage to do that before, or at least faster. I know i'm no better here because i dont really care what i play @prog my runes and masteries were pretty bad because i originally wanted to play nami, did runes/masteries for her, but then changed to leona for some reason i can't even remember, and forgot to change runes. I went targons because i figured some kind of waveclear help would be pretty useful, and also make me take less harrass lvl 1-2 since you'd use your aoe on the wave instead of me to keep the push in your favor. Also I thought it'd be useful against zed in tfs I'm not sure how well that turned out, I don't feel like your poke was the problem, it was still that your wave always pushed so i never felt like i could jump in, and cait was probably too busy managing the creepwave to harrass lulu, which also complicated the jumping in part. So I basically had to wait until after 6 to do any serious allin, and even that only really worked once. Like, I know it didn't work out (at all pretty much) but that was basically my thought process. to do a randy at the end; it's just been too long since i last played vs graves/lulu so i had no real idea what to do and just did some random guesswork | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 05 2014 21:57 Dandel Ion wrote: not a bad point, usually we waste half the pick phase on deciding who goes where. we should really manage to do that before, or at least faster. I know i'm no better here because i dont really care what i play @prog my runes and masteries were pretty bad because i originally wanted to play nami, did runes/masteries for her, but then changed to leona for some reason i can't even remember, and forgot to change runes. I went targons because i figured some kind of waveclear help would be pretty useful, and also make me take less harrass lvl 1-2 since you'd use your aoe on the wave instead of me to keep the push in your favor. Also I thought it'd be useful against zed in tfs I'm not sure how well that turned out, I don't feel like your poke was the problem, it was still that your wave always pushed so i never felt like i could jump in, and cait was probably too busy managing the creepwave to harrass lulu, which also complicated the jumping in part. So I basically had to wait until after 6 to do any serious allin, and even that only really worked once. Like, I know it didn't work out (at all pretty much) but that was basically my thought process. to do a randy at the end; it's just been too long since i last played vs graves/lulu so i had no real idea what to do and just did some random guesswork We also got chunked pretty badly at some point around lvl 2-3, not entirely sure what we tried to do but it didn't work :p We went in with a vague plan to try and push level 1, hit 2 around the same time then all in, and when that failed our coordination totally fell apart. So do people prefer thursdays or wednesdays? Personally I prefer wednesdays, because I can sleep in thursdays, but I'm fine with either. | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On April 05 2014 21:57 Dandel Ion wrote: @prog my runes and masteries were pretty bad because i originally wanted to play nami, did runes/masteries for her, but then changed to leona for some reason i can't even remember, and forgot to change runes. I went targons because i figured some kind of waveclear help would be pretty useful, and also make me take less harrass lvl 1-2 since you'd use your aoe on the wave instead of me to keep the push in your favor. Also I thought it'd be useful against zed in tfs The problem ist just that relic shield does not accomplish what you intend to do with it. The rationale to get a way to fastpush the wave so we waste our spells for waveclear is valid, but you miss that you have to go right to the creepwave. We can simply hit the creeps and you at the same time when you go in for the lasthit. In this case I think we did not do that on the first wave (because I disconnected at the first wave xD), but Graves/Lulu usually just Q on you and the minions at once. In general going for the lvl 2 all-in against one of the, if not the single best waveclear botlane for lvl1 won't work. It's just really difficult to punish Lulu/Graves early game at all due to their pushing power and their lvl 2 vs lvl 2 is definitely stronger than yours (especially if you start a gold item on Leona). And you risk dieing there which would mean that the lane is pretty much over because Lulu can bully you if she gets ahead. For the lvl ~3 fight I am unsure what happened exactly. That's something that we probably could have figured out right after the game when the memory was still fresh. I suspect that you just engaged on us at close to full hp, which is a fight you cannot win early game i think, especially with gold quints (?) and relic shield. I think this was largely caused by you being unfamiliar with the matchup, just as you said. Also if you are unable to control the waves and harass before going in, just simply don't go in at all without jungler/teleports. With a decent comp Caitlyn/Leona are better lategame than Graves/Lulu, so if you are even everything is fine. Unfortunately with your comp you had to win lane i think, which is difficult in this matchup. On April 05 2014 20:51 Tymlegend wrote: Maybe when the teams are made, we could take like a 5 minute break before we start so both teams can discuss team comps instead of going into champselect not knowing what role you will get. I agree, that is indeed something we should do. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
I gotta play more inhouses because my play has been really terrible these last days... I'm still absolutely okay with thursdays as well though | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Tymlegend
Netherlands42 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
Next Playday: Wednesday, April 9th, 8:30 PM CET The In-Game channel will be "TryHardTime" | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 06 2014 06:16 AlterKot wrote: damn i wanted it to bee "w2cDidNothingWrong" Your channel names are getting more and more obscure, stop making me feel out of the loop >.> | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
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