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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I've never laned against a support annie, and the first-hand experience + the short brainstorming about how to deal with her in champ select probably helped me a lot in regards to her (we'll see if it did if I ever meet one again hue). So I'm fine with picks of new champs (even if they're as op as jinx), although I'll add it's useful if the guy picking it has some experience on the champ already else you're both just running around flailing your arms. My opinion™ | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 13 2013 08:11 killerdog wrote: I don't think there's any harm in taking a few games with/against her. You can't assume that you're never going to hit her in ranked. There are plenty of heroes which are "perma banned" right now but you still see a zed or fizz or kassa get through relatively often, and if you've never really played against it before then you can just screw your whole team over as a result. tbh I was surprised noone banned her though, was going to ban her in the next game game if I hadn't had to leave, I just wanted to get an idea of how to counter her in lane by playing her against good peopl, but it didn't feel like any of the other adc's i laned against really did that at all. (Although that might have been Prog carrying me harder then i thought possible in lane.) English accents too OP, the 2nd game we asked who should get banned and we banned Jax instead of Jinx. x') And yeah I was playing passive as heck, I saw Cait run to the bush, thought I was going to win anyway if we fought since I didn't step in the trap, can't remember why I chose to get the farm instead. I guess I had a "well she's going to back anyway, better not lose a full wave to the tower" moment, despite us def. having enough to kill Cait and the wave actually not having quite reached the tower yet. I really don't play AD much so although I "know" that on paper so and so is strong at this and that level, or has a window in such particular match-up, I don't really have a "feel" for it when I'm playing that role and there's a bunch of simple little things that I don't know about (I'm not even sure what the standard trade combo is for Graves, and my positioning is prob suboptimal to get good Qs off, for example). As for "new champs", the likeliness of them getting promptly nerfed/changed is more of a factor than people not being used to them I'd say. If I get sent mid for example, I'd probably pick Orianna, Viktor or maybe Diana. That's 2 "rare" champs out of 3 that my lane opponent may never have encountered more than twice despite them not being particularly new. Or if Teut decides to bust out the Fiora or something like that. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On October 13 2013 08:42 Alaric wrote: English accents too OP, the 2nd game we asked who should get banned and we banned Jax instead of Jinx. x') oh yes I remember that lol. TS was being a bit quiet so I just heard J**X and looked at the list of champions i could ban and saw jax, jinx didn't even register as an option because noone on their team had her so she wasn't on the list >.> But if I'm being an idiot or doing something you disagree with (like playing the same champ too much), just tell me I'm being dumb and i'll stop normally stop :p | ||
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YungBasedGod
United Kingdom6 Posts
On October 13 2013 07:02 Slayer91 wrote: you should probably watch the replay i was responsible for more frustration than damage there Where can we find the replays? | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Regarding last game's botlane: As you already said I took a bit too much free damage and in the first big engagement Dandel escaped into the brush with like 1 auto to death (would have died with a fast ward in there) while both of us died. From that point on the lane was lost and I just wanted to keep up in cs (which I surprisingly did under turret, even though my last-hitting was bad, so yours must have been terrible as well). We could not fight at all, especially with Annie vs Zyra. Annie is more of a teamfight support and an Annie lane cannot efficiently trade versus Zyra. Diving with Ashe/Zyra without jungler help is not easy and pretty much only works if you catch one slightly ahead of the turret. I think in such a situation, and especially with the way your other lanes went, you should try to end the laning phase as fast as possible by focus on the turret. You had a teamfight comp with loads of AoE but did not manage to get controlled teamfights at all. Our comp on the other hand excelled at catching people in smaller engagements. If you can get the turret faster and group up for other objectives you will have more of a chance I think. So don't even bother with dive attempts. @Dandel: I noticed you got E with Zyra lvl 1. Was there any particular reasoning for this? I think Q first is generally better because you get stronger harass that hits easier and you can push the wave better with it. QWEQQ gives you a incredibly strong lvl 2 as well. | ||
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koziol
Poland768 Posts
other than that I think my mid lane is fine, but then I saw how Fat Cat does it and well now i think i suck :< not to comment my shen vs irelia match up where i just again shouldnt trade with a better player. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
unfortunatly, leb leveled W and jumped by the time my e was on the way to him. we were completely fine bot even so, and maybe it gave karth a little bit of an easier time lvl1(?) (not that it actually helped hue). Also I originally decided to initiate the dive exactly because you were keeping up in farm, and dead people can't CS. The idea was that at least somebody on your team should be behind, not ahead. The problem was that we overstayed behind turret by a minute. | ||
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
The first game with Orianna was somewhat decent since it was like my 3rd game with her.. I escaped first Scip gank burning my flash ignite but forcing his flash (not a good trade overall but still better than dying^^). The second one though despite knowing he was there I died because underestimating his Q range (amumu), hence the dick comment from Teut.. I didn't mind though it was really bad from me. Oh and I have some trouble seeing where the Orianna ball is in teamfight, I guess it'll come with experience.. The second game I hesitated picking Trist, I didn't want to pick Corki bc he's op and I wanted to train with Trist.. We missed the first creep and like Scip said I took way too much damage from the level 2 agression. I'm not used to those level 2 fight at my elo lol, I learnt something at least. Then I had some trouble csing under tower because I'm not used to have my support attacking creeps in order to help me cs lol so that confused me ^^ (I'm really bad wow) | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On October 13 2013 18:50 Pooshlmer wrote: Standard start in IHs is pink/3green/5pots. Starting any regen item is asking to get owned. Building philo first is also pretty bad, the sightstone health + gp5 is just too amazing. this guy knows what's up | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On October 13 2013 18:46 Dandel Ion wrote: Yeah, we invaded and decided to lead the charge with me. unfortunatly, leb leveled W and jumped by the time my e was on the way to him. we were completely fine bot even so, and maybe it gave karth a little bit of an easier time lvl1(?) (not that it actually helped hue). Also I originally decided to initiate the dive exactly because you were keeping up in farm, and dead people can't CS. The idea was that at least somebody on your team should be behind, not ahead. The problem was that we overstayed behind turret by a minute. Yeah sure, with invades E first is good for the cc. I just did not remember the invade any more. (And I agree, you won the lane anyway. I was just asking in general, because defaulting to E first would not be optimal.) I don't think overstaying was the root of the problem. Even if you recall safely you lose so much time you could be spending on destroying the turret and shorten the timeframe of Fat Cat dominating in mid. Overstaying and both of you falling to Udyr made it certainly way worse though. I don't think you needed to force one of us out of the lane to be further ahead, even if we keep up in cs. Just get the turret. Edit: I agree that 1 pink 3 greens rest pots is a good start. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It turned out amazing because somehow I didn't eat a lot of harass, and annie started 2greens. and i had 2 pinks for those. lel | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
dunno, hope someone runs lolreplay | ||
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Pirateer
United Kingdom9 Posts
On October 13 2013 18:46 Dandel Ion wrote: Yeah, we invaded and decided to lead the charge with me. unfortunatly, leb leveled W and jumped by the time my e was on the way to him. we were completely fine bot even so, and maybe it gave karth a little bit of an easier time lvl1(?) (not that it actually helped hue). Ironically it was just as bad for me, he was still able to poke with relative ease and escape any possible ganks Remind me not to pick karthus if their midlane hasn't been picked, not fun times | ||
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YungBasedGod
United Kingdom6 Posts
On October 13 2013 19:58 Pirateer wrote: Ironically it was actually worse for me, as he had the mobility to dodge my q's and attack me without taking any damage Remind me not to pick karthus if their midlane hasn't been picked, not fun times I didn't use my W level one to dodge any of your Q's bar once just to try and harrass you otherwise i would have gone OOM very fast. If i had Q level 1 i could have half healthed you by level 2 because of the low cooldown and mana cost of Leblanc Q combined with dorans ring. Then by level 2 it would have been a free kill with Q-W-Ignite. Instead i had to wait for level 3 in order to kill you | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 13 2013 18:43 koziol wrote: oh well the support from the other side just beat me badly. I came to lane with lile 2 normal wards, while his starting items were 2 pinks + pots i think. I tried to ward deep somewhere around dragon but Zyra spotted me there. then when we lost first exchange 0-2 after taking a lot of poke from Zyra, from there it was just hard to keep up with wards or trading. I remember the moment when u had full sight ward and i came to lane with like 2 wards and pink. nothing i could do. Well i usually start as support player with those double regeneration items which makes into the philo-stone to have some sustain. But I see it doesnt work on a higer lvl. Next time I guess I should just start with pinks. and well, that zyras poke was fcking deadly. I thought annie has good poke with her long range and stun all the time, but yea that was hard. on the other hand other lanes snowballed hard and i think me and my adc knew we just had not too give too many kills :p other than that I think my mid lane is fine, but then I saw how Fat Cat does it and well now i think i suck :< not to comment my shen vs irelia match up where i just again shouldnt trade with a better player. Yeah, for the price consumables > regen items for a long, long time. Their main advantage is to put you closer to your philo, but it makes you weaker in comparison until at least your first back (unless there somehow is a fight to the death without poke beforehand). Also philo generally isn't worth it unless you like mp5 in lane and want to build shurelya or crucible later (so it's a big no-no on champs like Leona, Blitz, etc. who want to fight and care way less about regen), and even then it's more of a "I got a kill/assist early but don't have enough for my sightstone, might as well buy that 5 minutes philo and some wards/pots". Apart from the difference in level (you're high bronze while Dandel is high silver iirc?), we had a very annoying lane for Annie from the start. I told Dandel to pick an autonomous support because I knew I wouldn't be reliable (we specifically said "no Leona" when he proposed it, because of this and Cait's long range), and Zyra has 800+ spell range and a 575 range autoattack, so she can somewhat answer to your auto harass, and you shouldn't ever get in range to stun one of us without burning Flash. Normally if you try to zone us with a stun, we can walk back while harassing with Volley and Zyra's spells+plants, and even go for a kill if you take too much damage, plus Zyra has good bush control while Annie has none, so it doesn't help with ambushing. For the Shen vs Irelia match-up, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it wasn't so much me being a better player (my mechanics in general are shit, as my last-hitting showed, I mostly rely on game knowledge to patch them up) but you initiating a trade in my own minion wave while I had Ignite and I knew you didn't. Dshield is most effective at low levels, which is also when minions are the most dangerous, so it was more you rushing into a wall there. Maybe it could have worked if you'd taunted backwards to force me into you creep wave, but I'm not sure about it. | ||
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koziol
Poland768 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
oh wait 22 min queue, nvm LOL | ||
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