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United States23745 Posts
On October 04 2013 10:42 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 10:36 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 04 2013 10:31 HughMyron wrote:
Yo what's with this Lissandra FotM? Ever since Worlds and Soaz, I've been seeing more and more Liss players, mostly on Top.
I bought her a while back, but she doesn't seem that great to me as a Top laner at least, When I play her it usually ends badly, her base stats are just so low...
I also play Irelia a lot, and I've slaughtered Lissandra players on top lane even when the player is considerably more skilled than I am. I know that Irelia is a lane counter to Lissandra, but I can't imagine Liss surviving against Renekton and Jax and pals either. Lissandra's been incredibly powerful from release. She just gets more and more popular because people in pubs slowly realize how strong actually is. Solo queue is always the last to change thought process. Safe getaway spell + easy farming + pretty decent burst at 6 + ridiculous CC + invuln = super fun/safe I've been playing her mid, quite a good answer to all the AD Assassins going mid recently. Could have something to do with that. I think the reason you can play her top is her E, its just so damn good for getting away. EDIT: I bought her right after I saw that video of some korean midlaner (can't remember who) kite like 2 - 3 people at no hp for agesssss. If you are fed on liss you can basically get chased by their whole team and never get caught. Its hilarious.
It was Faker. Because really, who else would it have been? lol
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On October 04 2013 15:36 silencefc wrote:
Here's a question:
If your all-in potential is greater than your opponent's starting level 1, do you start stronger all-in and snowball or start sustain because you are guaranteed to win trades?
i believe the highest level players will tell you to start sustain and outlast trades rather than risk an early all-in or even worse, an opponent who starts consumables, survives your all-in, and then outsustains you
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On October 04 2013 16:17 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 15:36 silencefc wrote:
Here's a question:
If your all-in potential is greater than your opponent's starting level 1, do you start stronger all-in and snowball or start sustain because you are guaranteed to win trades? i believe the highest level players will tell you to start sustain and outlast trades rather than risk an early all-in or even worse, an opponent who starts consumables, survives your all-in, and then outsustains you
well that's skewed by the fact that at the highest level you're not going to be able to successfully all-in someone 1v1 very often simply because people are better at avoiding all-ins or turning them around with jungler support.
for regular solo q I think it's worth it if you think you can pull it off. i mean, a successful all-in doesn't necessarily have to result in a kill.
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And what happens when you all-in and get ganked? Better to have a potion and a ward rather than potentially give up firstblood!
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On October 04 2013 14:33 sung_moon wrote:
Ugh maybe this belongs in QQ thread, but me running TP Top has been a liability like 4/5 times in soloq lol. So many times I get dived or I allin (really stupid decisions/movements on my part here probably) and I could of gotten a kill/lived had if I had ignite.
Or I see a good opportunity to TP but the team doesn't respond accordingly and they run away, while enemy top keeps pounding at my turret.
Most likely me not understanding the situation and not really knowing when or when not to TP/roam and let my enemy laner get free farm/turret.
It usually depends on who I am playing. If I am playing someone like Malphite/Jax/Singed I'll usually take tp, but on Shen/Vlad/Jayce/Renekton I will always take ignite.
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On October 04 2013 16:59 HughMyron wrote:
And what happens when you all-in and get ganked? Better to have a potion and a ward rather than potentially give up firstblood!
well, you have to take that into account if you want to all-in. ex. don't all-in around the level 3 gank timing, buy an early ward, etc...
the nature of all-inning makes it a risky play for potentially big payoff.
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On October 04 2013 05:15 ArchAngelSC wrote:
I'm pretty sure I'm best Vi EU. Just throwing that out there :D
that's a pretty bold claim
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On October 04 2013 16:59 HughMyron wrote:
And what happens when you all-in and get ganked? Better to have a potion and a ward rather than potentially give up firstblood!
if we are talking about lvl 2 all ins here which seemed to be implied, and you probably know which buff their jungler started at, and you die to a gank you are dumb.
if we are talking later imo the whole discussion gets too complicated for big sweeping rules.
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lvl 1-3 all ins can be very strong openings for your lane and possibly snowball into a win i think. There are a good number of champs and situations that will work and a greater number that doesn't. I suggest you just try it out as many times as you can until you figure out when you can do an early all in and when not. If you are allways afraid of trying out things then you will improve your game only very slowly. As long as you look for things you can improve and not things to blame you will get better faster if you try out stuff in a precise and disciplined way.
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On October 04 2013 12:45 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
I just realized that a good chunk of what we do here is essentially balance whine. Go us!
EDIT: I want to try support Lissandra again after I get my client fixed/ after worlds. Free spells too good, and her brush control should be pretty good because of her skillshots. Im fairly sure she is a terrible support. From the one game I tried it felt like I could do absolutely nothing till I hit 6. I think she is too low range for poking, doesnt have any shield or heals (or anything to buff the ADC) so what is the positive of having her support?
Zyra, Leona, Annie, Fiddlesticks have no shields, heals or other kind of buffs that can be applied to their lane partner.
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Its hard to believe people still don't realise how hard Syndra bursts with her ult even with only 4 spheres. QE for the stun then W DFG W Ult and they just explode.
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On October 04 2013 21:43 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:45 ZataN wrote:On October 04 2013 12:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
I just realized that a good chunk of what we do here is essentially balance whine. Go us!
EDIT: I want to try support Lissandra again after I get my client fixed/ after worlds. Free spells too good, and her brush control should be pretty good because of her skillshots. Im fairly sure she is a terrible support. From the one game I tried it felt like I could do absolutely nothing till I hit 6. I think she is too low range for poking, doesnt have any shield or heals (or anything to buff the ADC) so what is the positive of having her support? Zyra, Leona, Annie, Fiddlesticks have no shields, heals or other kind of buffs that can be applied to their lane partner.
Specifically Lissandra isn't a terrible support, just that her method of support (that of a strong peel based support) is bested by others in the pool on 0 cs. she does best most, if not all, of that pool of supports if your team gives liss some farm in anticipation of the later part of the game. So she's decent but not great as support is played right now.
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On October 04 2013 21:50 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 21:43 Alaric wrote:On October 04 2013 12:45 ZataN wrote:On October 04 2013 12:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
I just realized that a good chunk of what we do here is essentially balance whine. Go us!
EDIT: I want to try support Lissandra again after I get my client fixed/ after worlds. Free spells too good, and her brush control should be pretty good because of her skillshots. Im fairly sure she is a terrible support. From the one game I tried it felt like I could do absolutely nothing till I hit 6. I think she is too low range for poking, doesnt have any shield or heals (or anything to buff the ADC) so what is the positive of having her support? Zyra, Leona, Annie, Fiddlesticks have no shields, heals or other kind of buffs that can be applied to their lane partner. Specifically Lissandra isn't a terrible support, just that her method of support (that of a strong peel based support) is bested by others in the pool on 0 cs. she does best most, if not all, of that pool of supports if your team gives liss some farm in anticipation of the later part of the game. So she's decent but not great as support is played right now.
No, Lissandra is pretty shitty as a support.
She needs farm to be super hard hitting. Her ranges are pretty short. Her escape is long cooldown unless you max it first or second (and I assume as support you would want longer root duration on W, so that's first). Her Q is incredibly short range unless you hit minions to extend it. This pushes the wave pretty hard.
Her base damages are pretty good, but she's squishy as all hell unless you get some defensive items. She does have amazing CC and utility, but needs to get up close to use it. As far as mages go, she's more on the all in side of things. This isn't very conducive to a support. Leona can get away with it because of the tankiness she gets from her W, as well as the low cooldown stun on Q. Lissandra's only hard CC is on her ult.
She's not the worst as far as trying to force support on champs go, but she's not very well tailored to the role.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 04 2013 22:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 21:50 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 04 2013 21:43 Alaric wrote:On October 04 2013 12:45 ZataN wrote:On October 04 2013 12:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
I just realized that a good chunk of what we do here is essentially balance whine. Go us!
EDIT: I want to try support Lissandra again after I get my client fixed/ after worlds. Free spells too good, and her brush control should be pretty good because of her skillshots. Im fairly sure she is a terrible support. From the one game I tried it felt like I could do absolutely nothing till I hit 6. I think she is too low range for poking, doesnt have any shield or heals (or anything to buff the ADC) so what is the positive of having her support? Zyra, Leona, Annie, Fiddlesticks have no shields, heals or other kind of buffs that can be applied to their lane partner. She's not the worst as far as trying to force support on champs go, but she's not very well tailored to the role.
Who IS the worst as far as trying to force support on a Champion? Ezreal? Sivir?
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On October 04 2013 22:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 21:50 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 04 2013 21:43 Alaric wrote:On October 04 2013 12:45 ZataN wrote:On October 04 2013 12:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
I just realized that a good chunk of what we do here is essentially balance whine. Go us!
EDIT: I want to try support Lissandra again after I get my client fixed/ after worlds. Free spells too good, and her brush control should be pretty good because of her skillshots. Im fairly sure she is a terrible support. From the one game I tried it felt like I could do absolutely nothing till I hit 6. I think she is too low range for poking, doesnt have any shield or heals (or anything to buff the ADC) so what is the positive of having her support? Zyra, Leona, Annie, Fiddlesticks have no shields, heals or other kind of buffs that can be applied to their lane partner. Specifically Lissandra isn't a terrible support, just that her method of support (that of a strong peel based support) is bested by others in the pool on 0 cs. she does best most, if not all, of that pool of supports if your team gives liss some farm in anticipation of the later part of the game. So she's decent but not great as support is played right now. No, Lissandra is pretty shitty as a support. She needs farm to be super hard hitting. Her ranges are pretty short. Her escape is long cooldown unless you max it first or second (and I assume as support you would want longer root duration on W, so that's first). Her Q is incredibly short range unless you hit minions to extend it. This pushes the wave pretty hard. Her base damages are pretty good, but she's squishy as all hell unless you get some defensive items. She does have amazing CC and utility, but needs to get up close to use it. As far as mages go, she's more on the all in side of things. This isn't very conducive to a support. Leona can get away with it because of the tankiness she gets from her W, as well as the low cooldown stun on Q. Lissandra's only hard CC is on her ult. She's not the worst as far as trying to force support on champs go, but she's not very well tailored to the role.
You shouldn't be aggressive with lissandra support though. you don't play her like you play leona. she's far more comparable to janna or lulu rather than leona. the kind of support where you harass when you can but mostly are there to control space in the lane for your carry to find. Lissandra support is at its core a pretty defensive support.
On October 04 2013 22:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Who IS the worst as far as trying to force support on a Champion? Ezreal? Sivir?
I'd probably put olaf as the worst as support. a melee who needs levels and some money and who doesn't provide much of anything in dual lanes. Skarner would fall into a similar situation.
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On October 04 2013 22:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 22:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 04 2013 21:50 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 04 2013 21:43 Alaric wrote:On October 04 2013 12:45 ZataN wrote:On October 04 2013 12:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
I just realized that a good chunk of what we do here is essentially balance whine. Go us!
EDIT: I want to try support Lissandra again after I get my client fixed/ after worlds. Free spells too good, and her brush control should be pretty good because of her skillshots. Im fairly sure she is a terrible support. From the one game I tried it felt like I could do absolutely nothing till I hit 6. I think she is too low range for poking, doesnt have any shield or heals (or anything to buff the ADC) so what is the positive of having her support? Zyra, Leona, Annie, Fiddlesticks have no shields, heals or other kind of buffs that can be applied to their lane partner. She's not the worst as far as trying to force support on champs go, but she's not very well tailored to the role. Who IS the worst as far as trying to force support on a Champion? Ezreal? Sivir?
Need a No-CC melee. Maybe Yi? Fiora? Both of those would horrendously awful supports. Ryze would be better than that, but as a support would be like a shitter taric (i.e. terrible).
E:Support Zed would probably be the biggest misuse of a champion's kit, but could maybe...not..suck?
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Lissandra is a pretty bad support.Dunno what is this obsession of people to play champs in a role they are bad at lol.
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Olaf practically has a ranged permaslow and a ton of free stats...
I'd say someone with absolutely no CC would be far worse with no ranged moves. Let's say, Fiora.
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On October 04 2013 08:59 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:56 Slusher wrote:
Except if you want to run 4 protect 1 in the current game you farm up your super tank in the top lane because they get enough more gold than the jungle to do the job significantly better.
it would take more than an Assassin nerf to make this untrue. There is actually no point in discussion roles with you, since you don't actually deal with anything other than things exactly as they are done. you don't have the experience or foresight to see things differently. I request you stay out of these discussions as they are clearly not a field in which you have experience.
This guy is such a massive douchebag, do you guys seriously not realise everyone is getting trolled and he remains untouched?
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On October 04 2013 22:28 The_Unseen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:59 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 04 2013 08:56 Slusher wrote:
Except if you want to run 4 protect 1 in the current game you farm up your super tank in the top lane because they get enough more gold than the jungle to do the job significantly better.
it would take more than an Assassin nerf to make this untrue. There is actually no point in discussion roles with you, since you don't actually deal with anything other than things exactly as they are done. you don't have the experience or foresight to see things differently. I request you stay out of these discussions as they are clearly not a field in which you have experience. This guy is such a massive douchebag, do you guys seriously not realise everyone is getting trolled and he remains untouched?
He's been trolling everyone for a few years now, and yes we hopefully realize he's trolling
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EPT
