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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
There have been a small number of supportive items that were actually good enough to be considered by the carry roles (pre-nerf Shurelya's, WotA), and we saw a wide array of usage for those items when it was possible for solo laners to hold them, and it generally felt pretty good for a support or jungler to have those items too. I already gave Riot credit for what they did right this patch (how they addressed Vayne). They just didn't do much right. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
With the change this kind of mentality/attitude won't get to develop. It's also too bad because it's the kind of behaviour that can be applied to other situations than just those two items in particular, and it'd be in the right direction imo. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Essentially we've got two points of view about support items here: "Support items have to be so bad that nobody wants to buy them" and "Support items have to be so good that everybody wants to buy them" The former point of view empirically does not work with this game, because every item that has ever actually been compelling enough on supports to buy over just wards and oracles have been the ones that have been powerful enough to be options on a carry role. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On July 31 2013 10:34 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Time to implement reverse snowball items that get worse as you pick up kills / CS / time passes. Dblades >.> | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
Instead, they gimped the aura not to include armor and put CDR on an Aegis, I just don't understand -- at least locket was an attractive solo queue support item before. Now this is basically a jungler-only item and I'll only be buying sightstone/boots/wards until super late game when I finally have enough to turn my philo into a crucible. That's just not fun. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On July 31 2013 07:36 Lmui wrote: Oh that makes sense. They accidentally buffed Vayne's condemn by 200 instead of 100 a few patches back and are fixing it to be equal with attack range. Well, this explains all the bs condemns I've eaten in the last patch, which was more than a few. Glad they finally slapped Vayne a bit, she was getting out of hand. Maybe all the crappy first pick Vayne's will disappear. Who am I kidding. >_< | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On July 31 2013 10:41 zer0das wrote: Well, this explains all the bs condemns I've eaten in the last patch, which was more than a few. Glad they finally slapped Vayne a bit, she was getting out of hand. Maybe all the crappy first pick Vayne's will disappear. Who am I kidding. >_< BorK nerf hits her as well, given it's become a core for her. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
As diamondprox has pick her up it feels it become popular. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On July 31 2013 11:09 Eppa! wrote: Has there been a discussion jungle Karma? As diamondprox has pick her up it feels it become popular. It's fucking beautiful man, clear is surprisingly smooth and ganks are simple (Speed boost, run down with snare and burst with mantra Q). I normally have gone for a doran's ring before wraith > sorcs > morello and I wing it from that point I am now an eternal advocate for karma being the greatest jungler. As for set up I've followed the one meteos has on probuilds, attack speed reds, armour yellows, scaling MR blues and flat AP quints http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1005277166/44979324. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
I'm not 100% convinced on how "rubbish" some of the support items are anyway. Twin Shadows has some great utility throughout the game, Crucible is awesome in certain situations and I doubt the situational usefulness of Shard gets explored enough, particularly on supports that get value out of AP (Zyra and Karma stand out in this regard). | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On July 31 2013 11:14 Fusilero wrote: It's fucking beautiful man, clear is surprisingly smooth and ganks are simple (Speed boost, run down with snare and burst with mantra Q). I normally have gone for a doran's ring before wraith > sorcs > morello and I wing it from that point I am now an eternal advocate for karma being the greatest jungler. As for set up I've followed the one meteos has on probuilds, attack speed reds, armour yellows, scaling MR blues and flat AP quints http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1005277166/44979324. im pretty sure i had someone a few days ago do this rofl | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 31 2013 11:17 Amarok wrote: I kind of think one of the main issues with Bulwark and Locket is being overlooked here. Both items were bullshit overpowered. They weren't even particularly bad items when ignoring their aura components. Simply saying that other "support items" were rubbish kind of ignores that both items were an absolute priority for every team in every game without exception. That's not a healthy situation. I'm not 100% convinced on how "rubbish" some of the support items are anyway. Twin Shadows has some great utility throughout the game, Crucible is awesome in certain situations and I doubt the situational usefulness of Shard gets explored enough, particularly on supports that get value out of AP (Zyra and Karma stand out in this regard). Crucible is a good active on a bad item for supports. Twin shadows works far better when picked up early, so why have a support buy it, Ohmwrecker is an amazing item that costs way too much. and has too shitty stats for a solo laner so no one will ever buy it. Shard is essentially a waste of space in that it provides almost nothing a support wants. Bulwark+locket were great. but destroying one and removing the other just makes you have to pick between a pool of shitty items. you know whats boring? picking between a pool of bad things. So as support i'm just gonna buy a kindlegem and ruby sightstone and cdr boots as my mid-late game items. screw everything else. maybe dorans shield earlier since its pretty good. If they instead made the "support" items better. and more tuned for support roles then people would have to make a choice instead of just auto buying the still best, just way worse, item. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
Ryze Summary: The ranges of Ryze's spells are being reduced this patch, but his base movement speed and Desperate Power movement speed buff have both been increased to compensate. In this summary they say they increased Ryze's base move speed but it doesn't say anything in the actual patch notes. Which of those is true? Also, I don't get this tower change. Maybe this is just my bias, but are there people that don't hate the laning phase? I would argue it's boring to watch and not much fun to play most of the time. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 31 2013 11:17 Amarok wrote: I'm not 100% convinced on how "rubbish" some of the support items are anyway. Twin Shadows has some great utility throughout the game, Crucible is awesome in certain situations and I doubt the situational usefulness of Shard gets explored enough, particularly on supports that get value out of AP (Zyra and Karma stand out in this regard). Empirically, "pretty good" has never been good enough for a support item to be bought over wards and oracles. The only items that ever actually stood out enough were stuff like pre-nerf Shurelya's that were just that good. The thing is, supports have to work with a baseline of "this item has to be better than a pile of wards and oracles to be worth buying at all". Which, given how absurdly good vision is, tends to mean that the item actually has to be as ridiculous as Locket, Aegis, or Shurelya's pre-nerf to be worth buying. It doesn't matter if you nerf Locket or Aegis, any other support item has to compete with that baseline to be any good, which means they have to be as insane as the support items that got nerfed in the past. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
It seems sort of funny that they seem to keep trying to position Bveil as an antipoke item when in reality it is so much stronger in an allin or surprise assasination situation. In a poke war it almost always gets popped with some inconsequential ability, whereas when you jump someone with Fizz or Rengar with one it makes winning a duel straight up impossible and prevent you from disabling them and escaping, and you often dont have time to think about what you can use to pop it without fucking yourself. Galio with this is also going to be completely immovable from lane | ||
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