EPT[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 244
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Iblis
904 Posts
On August 14 2013 10:48 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: I actually feel that Yorick is in a pretty poor state in s3 with the crappy tear, having to go against rejuv beats+pots spam or even flask openings. A lot of shit like Irelia/xin can just all in you at like level 4-5 and you're pretty screwed. Yorrick has never been strong against all in or CC heavy gank jungle pre-6 but let him farm a bit for 6-8 levels and nearly no champ can 1v1 him with equal summoners/ult because he will just outsustain anyone. His ult is gamechanging in SoloQ where Vayne is picked everytime she is not banned. Unless the game is finished before 25 minutes or they are extremely bad at positioning and Yorick or vayne gets picked off while not together then you are in for a really frustrating game. Then again yorick is still yorick, if you don't have high sustain you can't lane against him, if you don't have burst/all in potential with ignite you are not going to kill him anytime and you better have a champ that likes farmfest or is great for teamfight. A muramana+spirit visage Yorick is a fucking plague to deal with. His rework is going to remove his ultimate as it is and will probably make him less impactful in teamfights. TL DR: Yorick has weaknesses but is a great toplaner, if left unchecked he will snowball the game easily, if he is behind or getting crushed, he can still be efficient for his team if the ADC or another champ from his team is fed. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On August 14 2013 12:43 Slusher wrote: he's squishy in the sense he has no "get the fuck off of me" ability. His post is pretty spot on san Raka's late game. i just checked the numbers real quick and they confirmed my intuition zileans hp pool is a whopping +1 hp/lvl over sona and his ar is slightly lower than sona until lvl 4, and unlike sona, he has no way to heal himself. these days i mainly play mf for adc cause she seems to be the only one i can win a game on, and when they pick zilean, i just laugh and tell my support to ignore the adc and focus on killing him instead because its so ridiculous easy to do i'm just of the opinion that raka's lategame is one of the worst of any legitimate support due to the fact that she neither has aoe engage ulti like nor spammable hard cc and should only pick her if you really need infuse for the mana and the silence (like they pick kat, you have graves). this is just my opinion and im perfectly happy to be wrong | ||
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Anakko
France1934 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
Her ult is so good in team fights, you can easily erase upwards of 1000 damage. Soraka with 20% or more cdr and/or Locket makes people immortal. her real problem currently is she can't really do anything in bottom lane unless she has an adc that can do all the heavy lifting with mana like Graves or MF. Current popular picks like Vayne and Twitch don't get a whole lot out of her (although if Vayne can stay safe until 5 she is immortal which is nice) her other major problem is she is beyond boring, and hair-pullingly frustrating if your adc has downs. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
you are lvl 18 and full build in a 70 minute solo q game with enough kills that unlike an lcs pro match you actually have a lot of gold would you rather be janna with a morello and deathcap, or would you rather be soraka with a rylais or something (i don't honestly even know what soraka could build to become more powerful in a 70 minute game beyond rylais and cdr). this example is on the absolute extreme ends of the spectrum, most supports will fall somewhere between janna and soraka in terms of end game strength, but it's what i'm trying to get at then you have all the ap supports on top of that, lux/zyra/kayle/morgana/and apparently annie is a thing now, who have a power curve of op early game -> lackluster midgame -> oh we have two mid laners gg, and soraka's prospects look even more grim | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 14 2013 12:42 obesechicken13 wrote: I don't think Zilean is even that squishy naturally relative to other supports. He just has higher mana costs so I think Zileans probably run more mana runes and less armor runes. Another interesting thing to note is that if Volibear and Nidalee lose bot lane a lot, then we can assume that if Nidalee and Volibear still have a 50% win rate overall, that they are overpowered in top/mid or top/jungle since they have to have a >50% win rate to balance it out. I'd wanted to make a script to do some calculations for this using data from lolking but unfortunately lolking only lists a few players for every champion. SoloQ top winrate champs (diamond) basically seems to have no rhyme or reason, except Splitpushers like Singed, Trynd, Nidalee, Aatrox, and Kassadin being super lame to deal with. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
slusher is totally right, her teamfighting is actually godlike if you have other sources of hard cc, it's her laning that's garbage. If her lategame were bad she'd probably legitimately be the worst hero in the game because that's pretty much her only strength. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 14 2013 13:07 Zanno wrote: then you have all the ap supports on top of that, lux/zyra/kayle/morgana/and apparently annie is a thing now, who have a power curve of op early game -> lackluster midgame -> oh we have two mid laners gg, and soraka's prospects look even more grim If you want to go AP support, and you don't kill me or my AD before 5, gg you are zoned the rest of the game, we trade for free whenever we want. don't get me wrong aggressive supports give Soraka a ton of problems early and you can easily end the lane in your favor before 5, but if you fail to do so , you are completely useless outside of Zyra. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 14 2013 13:15 UniversalSnip wrote: what on earth are you talking about... how strong a support is endgame depends on how strong they are with items they would actually build. Somehow you double up on that absurdity because you give janna morello and dcap vs soraka with like 4k less gold of suggested items. slusher is totally right, her teamfighting is actually godlike if you have other sources of hard cc, it's her laning that's garbage. If her lategame were bad she'd probably legitimately be the worst hero in the game because that's pretty much her only strength. Her laning isn't ~bad~, it's just not up to par with other supports, and the Infuse nerf (not allowing her to use it on herself) kind of fucked it over. She still turns any poke-y harass-y AD into a monster granted you don't overextend and die to ganks (or hard engage supports like Leo). I've had plenty of solo queue games supporting Varus or Cait where we just poked the shit out of the enemy lane and took tower super fast because every time they stepped out of the fog of war they'd eat all the damages and we'd stay in lane forever. It's pretty niche, but yeah her late is pretty fucking good too in the right situations. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
even in her good match ups in order for her to out trade she and her adc need to push lane, which is dicy because she has no cc/movement so if you aren't vigilant with wards you pretty much just die if you don't see the jungler before he gets there. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On August 14 2013 13:15 UniversalSnip wrote: slusher is totally right, her teamfighting is actually godlike if you have other sources of hard cc, it's her laning that's garbage. If her lategame were bad she'd probably legitimately be the worst hero in the game because that's pretty much her only strength. That's the problem, the current meta favors hard cc supports. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35142 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 14 2013 13:25 kainzero wrote: That's the problem, the current meta favors hard cc supports. It also favors Zac top, and a host of cc junglers like Naut and J4 I'll take a reset on J4's healthbar that comes with a 110 armor buff when your carry is trapped in the crater with him. shit is situational. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On August 14 2013 11:31 Slusher wrote: the advantage of being a support main is 75% of the time your direct opponent is playing a role they don't put as much focus on as you, and 50% the time are mad about it. Basically this. For example, if I'm firstpick, I deliberately leave Blitz open for the other team to get and then I just autowin botlane. Soraka has amazing lategame-- you go tank/CDR with your AP item of choice (I'm a sucker for Athene's, Abyssal if your team doesn't have one). Spam Starcall, either bait the crap out of everyone or shred them to -20 MR. . Her weakness is laning, where she had no sort of CC to disengage. Later on, she begins to shine when you can get free gold from cross map assists with your ult, or in teamfights where you can depend on someone else to engage. Ult + Locket is a 2000 hp swing in a fight, easily. Again, with the likelihood that the enemy doesn't know how to play support and that 90%+ of players think Raka is just a healbot, you can be a complete dick by either doing the heal/barrier manmode Soraka, or just being a huge bitch with auto-E harass. Also, no support should ever build a deathcap. You simply don't have the money. Dammit Lux is a completely legit support and I still don't know why people say she isn't. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
I would prefer having a Zyra though. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On August 14 2013 12:42 obesechicken13 wrote: I don't think Zilean is even that squishy naturally relative to other supports. He just has higher mana costs so I think Zileans probably run more mana runes and less armor runes. Another interesting thing to note is that if Volibear and Nidalee lose bot lane a lot, then we can assume that if Nidalee and Volibear still have a 50% win rate overall, that they are overpowered in top/mid or top/jungle since they have to have a >50% win rate to balance it out. I'd wanted to make a script to do some calculations for this using data from lolking but unfortunately lolking only lists a few players for every champion. nidalee's win rate in bronze and silver is 48-49%, while it's 55% in diamond, interestingly | ||
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