[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…

On July 18 2013 17:23 Alaric wrote:

C'mon, a TSM fan with 2 Curse fan? How could he resist the urge to make you feel how Curse was before Edward shaped up Cop in teamfights?

On July 18 2013 16:35 Mogwai wrote:

wriggle's costs 2K, same as the other jungle items. I honestly think it's crowded out more by Acient Golem -> Cutlass being so strong on the guys who would want it than anything else. We're trying to figure out wtf to do with the thing nowadays, but suffice to say it's a lot harder to make this item work with vamp scepter @ 800 gold than it was at 450 gold.

On July 18 2013 17:36 IMoperator wrote:
ugh everyone in solo queue is banning tf now, i can never play him T_T

On July 18 2013 17:33 Amui wrote:


The biggest issue I have with wriggles is that it's actually a terrible buy for an early-midgame transition without being fed because it lacks so much in the tank department, and when fed, you don't need the extra clear speed, and there are better items to buy. 25 armor really just does jack shit for keeping you alive midgame when magic burst relative to HP is the highest it will probably ever be for a jungler, and it makes ganks and counterganks all that much more scary. Madreds and a giant's belt, or a madreds and ruby+emblem/NMM towards aegis just makes you so much more tanky.

Could you just buff wriggles proc to some absurd level just to see what happens(like 200 damage per hit level). Unlike BotRK with a large damage cap, it's quite unlikely that there will be more than 1 wriggles per team.

Wriggles does need something though, because the item has a very weak transition against well balanced teams. Whether it is adding 200 to the cost and a NMM to the recipe or giving bonus exp on monster kill, or even taking out the vamp sceptre and putting in a proc that adds a monster sigil(the mana/health restore) to every monster you kill, and putting a useful component in it's place.

On July 18 2013 12:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
Wut. DBlade starts? Is this with like utility pot?

On July 18 2013 17:41 wei2coolman wrote:

Play lux. She's op'd in soloqueue.

On July 18 2013 18:08 kongoline wrote:

from what i've seen its more of pro tactic to counter 1v2, they do their buffs and no other camps with dblade, base buy boots/pots wards and go directly to 1v2 lane which is already pushed to the tower then they stay there helping, they buy machete later anyway but having dblade+ boots is much stronger option than having useless madred/philo stone in 2v2 skirmishes

On July 18 2013 16:35 Mogwai wrote:
wriggle's costs 2K, same as the other jungle items. I honestly think it's crowded out more by Acient Golem -> Cutlass being so strong on the guys who would want it than anything else. We're trying to figure out wtf to do with the thing nowadays, but suffice to say it's a lot harder to make this item work with vamp scepter @ 800 gold than it was at 450 gold.

On July 18 2013 19:24 Lmui wrote:


Wriggles niche was primarily for the autoattacking, low AoE junglers when health was more evenly distributed among creeps in the jungle to help them clear in times close to what the heavy AoE junglers could. As the little wraiths/wolves got weaker and weaker, most junglers with one AoE skill (nocturne, xin zhao, J4) quickly get to the point where a single AoE spell and maybe an autoattack kills any small creep (wraith/wolf) with both a spirit stone or a razor for the early-mid game, giving these junglers little incentive to ever build a madreds/wriggles.

Right now, the only champions that'll ever build a madreds are the manaless junglers (lee/shyv etc), warwick and shaco.

I would honestly wager that most of those champions would prefer having an elder lizard over a wriggles since elder lizard gives a faster clear for any champion that has any sort of AoE along with far and away more damage to champions.

Since wriggles isn't going to outtank a golem stone or outdps a lizard stone right now, it might be useful to buff one of the two or add more utility to it.

Remove the vamp, give doubled or hell, even tripled effectiveness of jungle sigils which gives you more room to play in terms of combat stats/utility? Shaco/Shyv especially have this problem where in the past, they needed the lifesteal to not go seriously health negative just by clearing camps that the 450g vamp helped out with.

It may also be worthwhile to explore moving the passive from spectral wraith (-20% CD on smite) to wriggles and tweaking spectral wraith since it honestly isn't being built much by anyone not named vladimir or fiddlesticks.