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On June 30 2013 08:49 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 08:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 08:28 Alzadar wrote:
Yo 5HAT I just played you, I was the Teemo.
I think it's a good match-up for me if I don't get cheesed level 1 like that, but it's kind of similar to like the vs Darius match-up where even with a lead you can mess up and die really easily. What's the thought behind your build, seemed a bit silly. Cheesed at level 1? I just ignited you for the kill... And the thought behind my build is that if it isn't a 4v5 because our mid DC'd I would have been split pushing with tanky aatrox. We almost won the 4v5 but if we had a fifth member it would have been about 5x as effective. I almost got a kill on you guys 1v3 multiple times with the build, it's strong. DBlade start + waiting in the bush is pretty cheesy. Obviously I shouldn't have died though, wasn't respecting your passive at all. Sunfire seems like a weird item to get for splitpushing when you don't need it to clear, since it will aggro tower if someone's there. I'm interested in everyone's opinion though, do most agree that no ward starts on melee top laners is cheese? You basically die if the enemy jungler decides to gank.
Cheese is doing something completely unconventional. Killling your opponent is a completely viable and well accepted strategy.
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On June 30 2013 08:28 Scip wrote:
What exactly does not tolerating verbal abuse in LoL mean? Reporting them mercilessly?
It's generally as simple as not being a bystander. There's endless amounts of ways to word it; I've always enjoyed the way Boondock Saints used the indifference lines as the opening to the movie. For those of you that have never seen it: "And I am reminded, on this holy day, of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, a long time ago, almost thirty years ago, this poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men."
There's nothing overly ideological or pie-in-the-sky about that sentiment. It doesn't mean that you have to, or even can, change the world. But there's nothing preventing a person from saying "hey man, chill out a bit. what you're saying isn't cool." So what if 8 out of 10 of those people blow you off and don't change? I may be a sample size of one, but I've had my own experiences with saying nothing more than that (or something similar enough), and had a person suddenly get quiet for two minutes then say "ya guys, I'm sorry, I was just really angry". Maybe that will act as a seed for actual change, maybe it's a nothing more than a bandaid for the present. But people can change -- they'll only change if they're prompted to.
It's all well and good to tell people to stand up for themselves. The world would be a far better place if people placed less emphasis on that and the slightest more emphasis on standing up for each other. If you've played LoL, you've seen someone been the target of absolutely needless harassment. How many people try to either offer encouragement as a counter-measure or simply say something in their defense? My own weakness comes from wanting to basically lash out at the other guy(s) instead of try to rationally approach them and then just let it go if they don't lay off, which basically just perpetuates the whole clusterfuck in a different form, so I'm not trying to preach this from an angle that I'm really awesome at this. 'We' don't need everyone or anyone to be a social batman, but if everyone made a concerted effort to be 5% nicer, I bet most would be shocked how much things can change.
The people that play this, and any other game, are just that: people. They come in all levels of self-confidence and skill possible. It really shouldn't be too much to try and acknowledge that. Things like respect can come later (hopefully).
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Do you really think that someone saying "hey man chill out". Is really the answer to really angry people flaming? It's going to be completely ignored.
I will butt in on issues where theres a dispute if I have a clear opinion, but only on the issue, the flame war is completely up to them they can do what they want.
Also, if someone "supporting" the guy getting harassed is that helpful, then that further reinforces my view that if you are self-aware enough you can be your own supporting voice.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I am kind of afraid of standing up for people like that because I think that people filled with some kind of self justified righteous fury and misguided confidence will play even worse than people under pressure from relentless flame.
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Saying "hey man chill out" is not intended to stop the flamer from flaming. If it works that's great, but it probably won't.
The intention is to get the person who is being flamed to realize that his other 3 teammates are on his side and not on the flamers. If he was actually the type of person who would get upset at being flamed and start to play worse (or quit) as a result, this can make all the difference.
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Sometimes it's worth because if the person getting flamed actually cares it might improve their moral and they will try to show you that your trust was well placed.Has helped me win a lot of games and it might help a person in need.
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On June 30 2013 08:14 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 07:54 nafta wrote:
Why is it sensible?You let a word,some text on your screen affect your fun time.Instead of playing something you enjoy you go do something else.
What if I responded to every post you ever make on TL with "you're a fucking idiot" or something equally/more inflammatory and none of the mods did anything about it? Would you give up TL?
I'd laugh so hard if someone did this for me.
Actually, someone usually does. I have the habit of starting all prolonged and (for other people) uncomfortable debates on TL LoL general.
Also, yeah, actually it does help when someone "takes your side", however, we come back to the point where you can't convince the entire LoL community to act a certain way, so if its a problem you can't change in any other way but one (the one I suggested) then how is this argument even still going on.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
He is doing the convicing job right here, in this very thread dude
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wrong thread 
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I want to Godwin this argument so badly...
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you're literally worse than hitler if you do
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I went back in time and Godwined this discussion in the middle of it.
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I don't know how you can get mad or feel offended by someone over a video game. Or even push ideas like "stand for yurself" or idk what other nonsense.. over a video game! You don't stand by if you see someone get abused in the street, that i understand, but when som dude is flaming over the internet... it's just not worth the effort man. The only time i mute someone is when they are saying so much stuff in chat that i can't go up the chat to get the dragon timer.
But getting pissed cause they said you suck online... i really can't understand. i get my share of crap when i soloqueue, everyone does, but you just read it, smile and think "wow this guy is really into this"
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Just because it's not bothering you personally doesn't mean nobody is ever bothered by it.
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On June 30 2013 08:49 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 08:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 08:28 Alzadar wrote:
Yo 5HAT I just played you, I was the Teemo.
I think it's a good match-up for me if I don't get cheesed level 1 like that, but it's kind of similar to like the vs Darius match-up where even with a lead you can mess up and die really easily. What's the thought behind your build, seemed a bit silly. Cheesed at level 1? I just ignited you for the kill... And the thought behind my build is that if it isn't a 4v5 because our mid DC'd I would have been split pushing with tanky aatrox. We almost won the 4v5 but if we had a fifth member it would have been about 5x as effective. I almost got a kill on you guys 1v3 multiple times with the build, it's strong. DBlade start + waiting in the bush is pretty cheesy. Obviously I shouldn't have died though, wasn't respecting your passive at all. Sunfire seems like a weird item to get for splitpushing when you don't need it to clear, since it will aggro tower if someone's there. I'm interested in everyone's opinion though, do most agree that no ward starts on melee top laners is cheese? You basically die if the enemy jungler decides to gank.
I'm fucking Aatrox, I have a passive revive and a mini malphite ult on Q, what in the fuck are you talking about LOL
Also I was just waiting in the bush because it's not a safe place to walk through unless you gain control over it first, I didn't cheese you, you just did something really retarded and got fb'd for it. Now you know not to walk through retarded spots that you don't have vision over when the enemy champ is mia at lv 1. You have to learn sometime, sorry if you think it's cheese.
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I mean say whatever you want but you almost lost to us in a 4v5 and I've been carrying against diamonds with that build from top lane
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On June 30 2013 08:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 08:49 Alzadar wrote:On June 30 2013 08:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 08:28 Alzadar wrote:
Yo 5HAT I just played you, I was the Teemo.
I think it's a good match-up for me if I don't get cheesed level 1 like that, but it's kind of similar to like the vs Darius match-up where even with a lead you can mess up and die really easily. What's the thought behind your build, seemed a bit silly. Cheesed at level 1? I just ignited you for the kill... And the thought behind my build is that if it isn't a 4v5 because our mid DC'd I would have been split pushing with tanky aatrox. We almost won the 4v5 but if we had a fifth member it would have been about 5x as effective. I almost got a kill on you guys 1v3 multiple times with the build, it's strong. DBlade start + waiting in the bush is pretty cheesy. Obviously I shouldn't have died though, wasn't respecting your passive at all. Sunfire seems like a weird item to get for splitpushing when you don't need it to clear, since it will aggro tower if someone's there. I'm interested in everyone's opinion though, do most agree that no ward starts on melee top laners is cheese? You basically die if the enemy jungler decides to gank. Cheese is doing something completely unconventional. Killling your opponent is a completely viable and well accepted strategy.
Don't really agree with your definition. Almost everyone would agree that 4pool is cheese, but it's not unconventional at all. Cheese is just high risk / high reward stategy that relies heavily on surprise / the opponent reacting poorly. Starting without a ward is gambling that the enemy jungler won't gank you, because most laners will die from full HP if they're past the middle of the lane and get ganked.
edit: waiting in the bush isn't cheese, that's just normal play (although you wouldn't be there if Ryze was connected). I'm talking about DBlade start.
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On June 30 2013 10:08 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 08:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 30 2013 08:49 Alzadar wrote:On June 30 2013 08:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 08:28 Alzadar wrote:
Yo 5HAT I just played you, I was the Teemo.
I think it's a good match-up for me if I don't get cheesed level 1 like that, but it's kind of similar to like the vs Darius match-up where even with a lead you can mess up and die really easily. What's the thought behind your build, seemed a bit silly. Cheesed at level 1? I just ignited you for the kill... And the thought behind my build is that if it isn't a 4v5 because our mid DC'd I would have been split pushing with tanky aatrox. We almost won the 4v5 but if we had a fifth member it would have been about 5x as effective. I almost got a kill on you guys 1v3 multiple times with the build, it's strong. DBlade start + waiting in the bush is pretty cheesy. Obviously I shouldn't have died though, wasn't respecting your passive at all. Sunfire seems like a weird item to get for splitpushing when you don't need it to clear, since it will aggro tower if someone's there. I'm interested in everyone's opinion though, do most agree that no ward starts on melee top laners is cheese? You basically die if the enemy jungler decides to gank. Cheese is doing something completely unconventional. Killling your opponent is a completely viable and well accepted strategy. Don't really agree with your definition. Almost everyone would agree that 4pool is cheese, but it's not unconventional at all. Cheese is just high risk / high reward stategy that relies heavily on surprise / the opponent reacting poorly. Starting without a ward is gambling that the enemy jungler won't gank you, because most laners will die from full HP if they're past the middle of the lane and get ganked.
Why does it matter so much if you got cheesed or not lol?
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Aatrox's jump is really pretty ridic.
Every time I see him revive with his passive and immediately jump away before anybody else has fingers fast enough to CC him in time I just want to scream.
As far as cheese goes, I think the difference between "risky" and "cheesy" is risky is a thing that your opponent can capitalize on, while cheesy is something that you yourself must capitalize on or you get set behind.
Starting with a dblade is risky because you're more vulnerable to ganks, but it's the opposing jungler that has to exploit that risk.
Starting with a red elixir and popping it right at the start of laning is more like cheese. You're then in a situation where you personally must make the elixir worth it, and if you don't you are behind.
Really, what is and is not cheese is all a matter of opinion in the end though. Not really worth discussing.
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On June 30 2013 10:08 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 08:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 30 2013 08:49 Alzadar wrote:On June 30 2013 08:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 08:28 Alzadar wrote:
Yo 5HAT I just played you, I was the Teemo.
I think it's a good match-up for me if I don't get cheesed level 1 like that, but it's kind of similar to like the vs Darius match-up where even with a lead you can mess up and die really easily. What's the thought behind your build, seemed a bit silly. Cheesed at level 1? I just ignited you for the kill... And the thought behind my build is that if it isn't a 4v5 because our mid DC'd I would have been split pushing with tanky aatrox. We almost won the 4v5 but if we had a fifth member it would have been about 5x as effective. I almost got a kill on you guys 1v3 multiple times with the build, it's strong. DBlade start + waiting in the bush is pretty cheesy. Obviously I shouldn't have died though, wasn't respecting your passive at all. Sunfire seems like a weird item to get for splitpushing when you don't need it to clear, since it will aggro tower if someone's there. I'm interested in everyone's opinion though, do most agree that no ward starts on melee top laners is cheese? You basically die if the enemy jungler decides to gank. Cheese is doing something completely unconventional. Killling your opponent is a completely viable and well accepted strategy. Don't really agree with your definition. Almost everyone would agree that 4pool is cheese, but it's not unconventional at all. Cheese is just high risk / high reward stategy that relies heavily on surprise / the opponent reacting poorly. Starting without a ward is gambling that the enemy jungler won't gank you, because most laners will die from full HP if they're past the middle of the lane and get ganked. edit: waiting in the bush isn't cheese, that's just normal play (although you wouldn't be there if Ryze was connected). I'm talking about DBlade start.
Cheese is something like that, All flat AD page, then charge your Q passive on golems, then go in with Q empowered Q Auto ignite, rengar strat imo. Something like that is considered cheese in league i think.
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EPT
