EPT[Patch 3.07: Nerf Everything Not Nami] General Discussion…
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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On May 20 2013 23:58 Nos- wrote: So lately I've realized that my jungle is absolute shit, and I want to learn at least the basics of the role. What heros do you guys recommend? (I've been playing nothing but lee sin when I have to jungle and that hasn't worked out all that well.) All the junglers have weaknesses. Rengar has decent sustain so if he takes a lot of damage early on due to bad leashes or invades he can continue to jungle. He is energy based and can give blues with little loss. He can solo dragon early and safely with wriggles. He can clear fast with Q. He can gank quite well. He can't duel a lot of junglers though since his numbers are low due to nerfs/balance decisions on creation. Q gives Aspd and a low base dmg but try using that against Nasus, Voli, Lee or Jax. He has low armor AD HP5 and W damage. Also he's pretty bad at teamfights unless you can catch someone alone or build damaging and kill a squishy since he doesn't have AoE CC or damage. Even Sej, the most OP champ in the game has weaknesses. I still think she has poor sustain and dueling ability. She just has a lot of CC and can lane gank decently or hop over walls for surprise ganks if lanes are warded. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On May 21 2013 01:13 Nos- wrote: Of the people that I can jungle with I have: Chogath, Lee, Udyr, Nunu, Amumu, Mundo. From what you guys are suggesting I should start with J4 and Naut/Sej? Never played Nautilus, but J4 and Sej are both amazingly flexible. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On May 21 2013 01:04 qanik wrote: You guys are forgeting the most op ganker: Nautilus. This dude is too much for anyone to handle. You can't go wrong with him and his 4 CCs. And he isn't that often banned where as elise, zac and hec are banned all the time. Sej is arguably stronger than Nautilus currently I'd say. Unless you can walk up to people and auto them, Naut post-6 ults somebody, and has to Q them if they Flash or use some escape ability ('cept Fizz/Vlad/Akali who just cancel your ult) so you can greatly reduce his amount of cc that way. He also can't gank at level 3 (he technically can, but the onus is on you to get the kill or tax like a mofo because otherwise the lack of level 2 shield will make your clear hell) and his damage is weaker, especially past midgame (and it'll be even worse in the next patch since Xypherous decided to entirely gut said damage by reducing his main tool by 24%, wtf Xyph). On May 21 2013 00:51 Scip wrote: ^^^^ Rammus doesn't rely on successful ganks, not really, he relies on being more useful mid and lategame than the other jungler. Oh? I thought he fell off pretty hard since his only cc is single-target and almost melee-range (he has the knock-back from powerball, but it's short and hard to apply to the desired targets), and contrary to, say, Leona, when his defensive steroid is down he can't just go on the outskirts of the fight and go back in when he has his cooldowns, since his E and R lack range and require him to stand in the middle of the pack for several seconds to have impact. Or did you mean "he relies on the teamcomps and fucking up the enemy jungler ganks and progression so he's always ahead"? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
If you jungle Fid a lot you'll need to learn a bit about jungling from behind when you get invaded and counterjungled. You scale into late game very well with your ult and can gank much better with it imo. If you jungle Udyr you'll learn good ganking practices more quickly due to necessity. If you just want to win more in your first 10 games then jungle Sej. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On May 21 2013 01:13 Nos- wrote: Of the people that I can jungle with I have: Chogath, Lee, Udyr, Nunu, Amumu, Mundo. From what you guys are suggesting I should start with J4 and Naut/Sej? Also something I and a lot of people missed to ask is what champs you enjoy to play?If you enjoy playing a champ you will do better with it 100%. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On May 21 2013 01:59 Sufficiency wrote: J4 feels pretty terrible at the moment for soloQ.... I'd rather have them jungle Naut than Sejuani or J4 atm when I'm going mid in soloQ. Screw those level 2-3 ganks, J4 is obnoxious and with Sej's damage being broken and the addition of the knock-up... | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On May 21 2013 01:16 gtrsrs wrote: i would definitely not jungle rengar, i feel like your entire game is contingent on your first gank with him and it's a hard pill to swallow if your laner fks up your first gank and you're now 3 levels behind with a slow clear the rest of the game XD the other problem with jungling rengar (and other assassins/dps like eve, zed, diana to some extent...) is that usually you want a lot of cc/tankiness coming out of the jungler. it's fine if you have a shen top or something like that, but if you have a zed or kha top and jayce mid or something like that, then usually you need to make up for that for the jungler role. if you pick an assassin you need to get ahead pretty early in the game. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2013 00:58 onlywonderboy wrote: Maybe I'm playing Nasus wrong, but I've done fine getting off a decent number of early and then just farming up to become really strong later. I guess it depends on the Elo, in Silver he's just a fine pick whenever :p Nasus is actually kinda mediocre bruiser/tank compared to things like Nautilus, Rammus, Evelynn, Zac or even Shen, he has no movement skills apart from ghost, his CC is not amazing since the wither nerfs and his farming is extremely mana intensive and not actually very fast. His main advantage is that he can solo dragon once he hits 6 and like 3 man baron in 15 minutes if he gets like lvl 9/10 and has a decent baron solo laner. Yeah, as a splitpusher Rengar should always be preferably in solo lane. vvv he can be tanky but he's not useful in teamfights at all and needs to be played as a splitpusher. On May 21 2013 01:31 Alaric wrote: Oh? I thought he fell off pretty hard since his only cc is single-target and almost melee-range (he has the knock-back from powerball, but it's short and hard to apply to the desired targets), and contrary to, say, Leona, when his defensive steroid is down he can't just go on the outskirts of the fight and go back in when he has his cooldowns, since his E and R lack range and require him to stand in the middle of the pack for several seconds to have impact. Or did you mean "he relies on the teamcomps and fucking up the enemy jungler ganks and progression so he's always ahead"? He doesn't fall off as long as the enemy team had a squishy-ish melee champion. He shouldn't be picked unless the enemy has that (or you for some reason think he'd serve as the best initiator against poke comps) | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On May 21 2013 02:29 kainzero wrote: the other problem with jungling rengar (and other assassins/dps like eve, zed, diana to some extent...) is that usually you want a lot of cc/tankiness coming out of the jungler. it's fine if you have a shen top or something like that, but if you have a zed or kha top and jayce mid or something like that, then usually you need to make up for that for the jungler role. if you pick an assassin you need to get ahead pretty early in the game. I feel Rengar can be pretty tanky. I mean he has a 400 heal that can be reused if he uses his empowered charges there. 480 with SV. And it gives him armor/mr. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 21 2013 01:59 Sufficiency wrote: J4 feels pretty terrible at the moment for soloQ.... Wat? Why? He's a solo que monster. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
He feels pretty frail some times. He absolutely needs farm to get tanky. If you fall behind as j4. All your good for is cataclysm then you die. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 21 2013 02:56 wei2coolman wrote: He feels pretty frail some times. He absolutely needs farm to get tanky. If you fall behind as j4. All your good for is cataclysm then you die. So you are saying he is not tanky when yo don't build him tanky? Well yea, that's why you build him (and pretty much every other "meta" jungle) tanky. He has great built in armor scaling with his E, kicks ass off tanky builds (locket, bullwark, etc), insane range, great cc, a sick passive, armor shred, and a team attack speed aura. If you are building J4 un-tanky you are doing ti wrong, most of my J4 games end with 250+ armor, 150~ MR, and 3k~ health, not frail at all. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:02 Diamond wrote: So you are saying he is not tanky when yo don't build him tanky? Well yea, that's why you build him (and pretty much every other "meta" jungle) tanky. He has great built in armor scaling with his E, kicks ass off tanky builds (locket, bullwark, etc), insane range, great cc, a sick passive, armor shred, and a team attack speed aura. If you are building J4 un-tanky you are doing ti wrong, most of my J4 games end with 250+ armor, 150~ MR, and 3k~ health, not frail at all. All very true, except the shred is on Q. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Where did I say otherwise? I was just talking to his strengths in general. On May 21 2013 03:07 Scip wrote: I wouldn't call Jarvan's armor scaling "great", it's bonus 22 armor when you max it, which oftentimes is 2nd because the cooldown reduction on Q is very very useful indeed. Rushing Spirit of the Elder Lizard can be a very good decision on Jarvan too. Wait are we talking lane J4? I've never seen a jungle J4 max anything but E first. | ||
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