[Patch 3.07: Nerf Everything Not Nami] General Discussion…

On June 10 2013 11:36 Shotcoder wrote:


It's called a dodge penalty, you get it no matter what even with 0 LP. It doesn't affect your MMR at all, so what's it matter?

On June 10 2013 12:05 Nos- wrote:
Should one look to trade or farm against a Khazix? I find it hard to whittle him down given his W's sustain and once he hits 6 or when he has jump he becomes very difficult to gank as well. I try to exert some early pressure but if I don't immediately push him out of lane he kind of just sticks around like a cockroach.

On June 10 2013 11:55 zodde wrote:


I know that it's a dodge penalty, and i know it doesn't affect his MMR. Just didn't know you could go negative LP instead of getting demoted.

On June 10 2013 12:05 Nos- wrote:
Should one look to trade or farm against a Khazix? I find it hard to whittle him down given his W's sustain and once he hits 6 or when he has jump he becomes very difficult to gank as well. I try to exert some early pressure but if I don't immediately push him out of lane he kind of just sticks around like a cockroach.

On June 10 2013 11:53 OutlaW- wrote:

I've kinda touched on this with Darius, who has really strong laning but has no mobility and is pretty bad in teamfights. They were forced to nerf him mainly because of blind pick, because you couldn't simply blindly pick "random top laner" and expect not to get shit on. He had counterpicks that were able to manage him and take out his main strength (thus make him fairly useless and average) and you also couldn't rely on your jungler, Darius' greatest weakness.
The fact that blind pick is the default pub mode means that you can't have too much variety in the game, you can't have champions who are really strong at things and really bad at things, because you can't pick around them. If you make a champion with great strength and great weakness, but you don't know how to abuse his weakness and the guy playing him is really good and knows how to abuse his strength, that champion will look disgustingly broken.
With Blind pick, you can't pick a champion who happens to be really good vs him and have the game balanced that way.

On June 10 2013 13:16 Ketara wrote:
Yeah I agree. Having a champion who just straight up counters another champion is bad game design.

Every champion needs to be able to outplay every other champion in every matchup. Advantages and disadvantages and things being difficult is good, but strict hard countering is v. bad.

On June 10 2013 13:16 Ketara wrote:
Yeah I agree. Having a champion who just straight up counters another champion is bad game design.

Every champion needs to be able to outplay every other champion in every matchup. Advantages and disadvantages and things being difficult is good, but strict hard countering is v. bad.

On June 10 2013 13:27 wei2coolman wrote:

I disagree. I like the idea of losing lane, but having to control how much you lose, and eventually can out scale or out play later. Sorta like akali in early level (before they gutted her q). Or things vayne and kogmaw in lane. I really like that kind of lane interaction, even though it's unfun to play for most people. Similar to 2v1 lane interactions.

On June 10 2013 13:29 Ketara wrote:


A champion who has a disadvantage in lane but scales better into late game if they don't lose badly enough is not being hard countered.

On June 10 2013 13:13 schmutttt wrote:
I hope if they nerf jayce they take away his bonus armor/mr from melee form. It'll make him squishier (He already dies real fast if you catch him).

If they hit his base damage or scaling (Without changing the other) I think they'll crush him.

On June 10 2013 13:35 Ketara wrote:
Yeah I'd agree, LoL's design team seems to take quite a few pains to make sure that the game doesn't have any really strict hard counters.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jayce lost his bonus armor/mr in hammer form, since Nid and Elise both lost theirs.

On June 10 2013 13:45 wei2coolman wrote:

Wrong move imo. They need to just take some of his strength in his ranged form and give it to his melee form. The difference between elise and nidalee was their melee form was deadly good all game long. Jayce's melee form falls off hard. Mostly used as utility for knockback or running away. Would love to see some hits on his ranged form and buffs on his melee form. Perhaps buff his defensive buff in melee form makes players more comfortable staying in melee form longer. Also changing what his melee w does.

On June 10 2013 13:47 OutlaW- wrote:

I disagree. I think the strength of his ranged form is what makes him fun to play and watch, it's his core. If you simply buffed his melee (bruiser) form and nerfed his ranged form, he would be just another bruiser but with a ranged form for small harass. I don't like that. Let Jayce be Jayce, don't just gut his core gameplay aspect..

On June 10 2013 13:45 wei2coolman wrote:

Wrong move imo. They need to just take some of his strength in his ranged form and give it to his melee form. The difference between elise and nidalee was their melee form was deadly good all game long. Jayce's melee form falls off hard. Mostly used as utility for knockback or running away. Would love to see some hits on his ranged form and buffs on his melee form. Perhaps buff his defensive buff in melee form makes players more comfortable staying in melee form longer. Also changing what his melee w does.

On June 10 2013 13:49 wei2coolman wrote:

His core game mechanic is to have 6 awesome abilities. But players only really using 4 of them. And only 2 of them consistently in late game.

On June 10 2013 13:51 OutlaW- wrote:

I think his core gameplay is farming ridiculous amounts of money and obliterating people with EQ, and when the situation allows it, go ham on their asses with melee form. You're basically saying that you would like him to become more "jack of all trades, master of none" instead of the fun and exciting niche that he is right now. I disagree. I would rather die than let that happen