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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. |
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United States23745 Posts
On June 08 2013 01:58 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 01:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 08 2013 01:35 MattBarry wrote:
I don't think Rhux was ever meant to be a support player for Curse. I think they're keeping him as a good replacement for Voyboy when he chooses to go back to his education, which is probably after this season He'll probably go back to playing for Curse Academy now. Not a bad back-up, Rhux is a solid Top laner. On June 08 2013 01:43 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:13 wei2coolman wrote:On June 08 2013 01:01 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 00:36 AsnSensation wrote:On June 07 2013 22:35 Lylat wrote:On June 07 2013 16:33 wei2coolman wrote:
Cop is an upgrade to Genja, but not by too much.
Curse real threat now though; Edward can carry cop in lane. No real weaknesses on Curse anymore.
CONFIRMED ON SAINT'S STREAM. hue. Meh, don't think Cop is an upgrade at all, don't know why Genja gets so much hate.. Maybe because he's the less good player in the team ? I'd argue that Darien looked like the weakest player in GG last season I like Wei2 but it's getting rather annoying to read at least twice a weak how NA carries supposedly >>> their european peers Call me biased since I'm european but yeah I'll give God aka Doublelift >>> any EU AD but the rest hasn't shown anything significant that warrants a NA ad > Eu ad generalisation. By significant I mean an apparent skillgap between e.g. Froggen, Peke and Bjergsen (alex has been rather derpy since week 10 of lcs and at allstars) compared to NA Mids. And even that statement might be so true anymore, while we make fun of reginald in LR threads for his shitty tf mechanics or randomy 1v1 deaths, he is still carrying tsm hard with arguably less practice ( not sure how much he plays the game compared the rest since he has many solomid.net commitments. ManCloud and Link look really solid, as well. To come back to NA ad's, none of the "new guys" (turtle, Nien, Zuna, Mashme etc) will get credit in my book unless they've proven themselves in international matches like Doublelift and (rather unsuccesfully) qtpie and Cop. Sry but I just don't see how it's so easy to say that they are >>Genja, Yellowstar, Rekkles, Candypanda, Yellowpete and the other guys. So calling Cop and improvement to Genja is really hilarious since both play the same pussy style but apparently Genja is Gambit's pick/bans mastermind and partly shotcaller. Anyways, CRS EDWARD PLS Don't bother, wei2coolman's not here to discuss the relative assessment of Cop and Genja as AD carries, but here to spread his agenda across, so there's almost no use in debating the issue with him because his mind is already made up. I've called wei2coolman out on his tendencies to spread his agenda across rather than promoting in-depth discussions, and went in painstaking detail in order to ask him to back his statements up with specific games from which he extrapolated his opinions from. It turns out he is content with re-iterating what Doublelift says during his trash-talks and putting faith in them to almost a religious degree. He doesn't need proof apart from his own beliefs, and certainly doesn't think it's necessary convince others by putting forth a worthwhile discussion because it might be detrimental to his drum-beating. That's a lot of shit flinging coming from your mouth. Do you really expect me to go through like 20 VoDs just to point out why certain ADC's are better than other ADC's just to satisfy you? Also "my agenda"; what am I now? a vast gov't conspiracy to brainwash everyone into thinking Godlift is the best (also, ya'll should be getting on the jiji jungle hype train)? You give me too much credit. Don't get all riled up because I choose to rank players from my viewing experience; and you choose not to. It's not any different than my version of power rankings. On June 08 2013 01:12 AsnSensation wrote:On June 08 2013 01:05 TheYango wrote:
Except for Korea.
We can safely say Korea is the best. Oh no question, I just thought the "this continent is better at this position bla" is a bit useless because to me personally it only matters who manages to win the games at the end of the day because you can't argue with results. I'm actually quite interested if you were just as surprised as everyone else that Korea dumped on China so hard, since you are big fan of chinese League/Dota. Korea didn't dump on China; so much as it's all star game and it's not a very good representation of actual skill level of each region. Wouldn't it be much more satisfying taking that time to watch over the games that led you to believe these opinions you have, rather than use the same argument that coincidently happens to side with the North American AD carries every single time compared to whichever AD carry you choose to compare them against? At least that way, we can both learn. As of now, I'm starting to believe that you didn't even have any games to reference your opinions on, and you're just rehashing words from other people's mouths without thinking twice about it, or just making up assumptions based on almost nothing. Seriously, if it isn't just an agenda you're attending to spread, educate me. I have watched games featuring both Cop and Genja, and have some difficulty accurately assessing the two. Considering you've probably watched a whole lot more of them, is it that hard just listing some games that made you realize that Cop was the superior of the two? You said rank on your own personal viewing experience. Then recall that viewing experience so that the rest of can learn. Or else I'll call bullshit. You don't always need specific games, I watched all of the NA LCS and most of the EU LCS and got the vibe that Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit. This is an opinion I think wei2 and I share that really can't be expressed through specific examples in VoDs because it's a feeling that spanned the whole season. "Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit." "Cop is an upgrade to Genja." Surely anyone can see that those two arguments are separate issues that needs to be discussed separately. Furthermore, basing arguments purely off vibes is dumb. We all have our pre-conceived biases, the "vibes" you get from your experiences as a viewer are often wrong, or at least mislead due to the incomplete information we receive from casual viewing experience. Surely we're here to recall, and re-assess, to the best of our capabilities when we discuss these kind of issues, and to do that, we need specific examples and proof. Otherwise we're basically here sharing our gut-feelings.
What kind of proof do you want me to find for you? A clip of laning phase where Genja eats too much poke the loses the lane? Or a duel where Cop wins a 2v2 Bot lane fight? I'm all for finding examples but I think this discussion is far too broad for specific examples. I'm sorry if you think my assessment of Cop vs Genja is wrong, but if you want to disprove me please do.
The argument of whether Cop is better than Genja isn't really important. I think Cop is more willing to adjust to Edward's playstyle. Over the past year Cop has improved greatly and diversified his champion pool (he used to play Corki like every game). Genja has stayed pretty stagnant relying on Edward to carry him in lane. If you want proof just look at all of Gambit's game, almost every time Gambit's Bot lane gets ahead it's Edward making a play not Genja. Cop plays similarly to Genja so if he adapts a bit I think he will be stronger since he's already used to playing the passive ADC role.
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Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;(
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On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;(
??? That's true at every level
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I dunno I had way less of this mentality at silver :<
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On June 08 2013 02:22 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;( ??? That's true at every level
I mean the only reason I'm not Best Player NA is because the name is already taken.
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On June 08 2013 02:19 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 01:58 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 08 2013 01:35 MattBarry wrote:
I don't think Rhux was ever meant to be a support player for Curse. I think they're keeping him as a good replacement for Voyboy when he chooses to go back to his education, which is probably after this season He'll probably go back to playing for Curse Academy now. Not a bad back-up, Rhux is a solid Top laner. On June 08 2013 01:43 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:13 wei2coolman wrote:On June 08 2013 01:01 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 00:36 AsnSensation wrote:On June 07 2013 22:35 Lylat wrote:On June 07 2013 16:33 wei2coolman wrote:
Cop is an upgrade to Genja, but not by too much.
Curse real threat now though; Edward can carry cop in lane. No real weaknesses on Curse anymore.
CONFIRMED ON SAINT'S STREAM. hue. Meh, don't think Cop is an upgrade at all, don't know why Genja gets so much hate.. Maybe because he's the less good player in the team ? I'd argue that Darien looked like the weakest player in GG last season I like Wei2 but it's getting rather annoying to read at least twice a weak how NA carries supposedly >>> their european peers Call me biased since I'm european but yeah I'll give God aka Doublelift >>> any EU AD but the rest hasn't shown anything significant that warrants a NA ad > Eu ad generalisation. By significant I mean an apparent skillgap between e.g. Froggen, Peke and Bjergsen (alex has been rather derpy since week 10 of lcs and at allstars) compared to NA Mids. And even that statement might be so true anymore, while we make fun of reginald in LR threads for his shitty tf mechanics or randomy 1v1 deaths, he is still carrying tsm hard with arguably less practice ( not sure how much he plays the game compared the rest since he has many solomid.net commitments. ManCloud and Link look really solid, as well. To come back to NA ad's, none of the "new guys" (turtle, Nien, Zuna, Mashme etc) will get credit in my book unless they've proven themselves in international matches like Doublelift and (rather unsuccesfully) qtpie and Cop. Sry but I just don't see how it's so easy to say that they are >>Genja, Yellowstar, Rekkles, Candypanda, Yellowpete and the other guys. So calling Cop and improvement to Genja is really hilarious since both play the same pussy style but apparently Genja is Gambit's pick/bans mastermind and partly shotcaller. Anyways, CRS EDWARD PLS Don't bother, wei2coolman's not here to discuss the relative assessment of Cop and Genja as AD carries, but here to spread his agenda across, so there's almost no use in debating the issue with him because his mind is already made up. I've called wei2coolman out on his tendencies to spread his agenda across rather than promoting in-depth discussions, and went in painstaking detail in order to ask him to back his statements up with specific games from which he extrapolated his opinions from. It turns out he is content with re-iterating what Doublelift says during his trash-talks and putting faith in them to almost a religious degree. He doesn't need proof apart from his own beliefs, and certainly doesn't think it's necessary convince others by putting forth a worthwhile discussion because it might be detrimental to his drum-beating. That's a lot of shit flinging coming from your mouth. Do you really expect me to go through like 20 VoDs just to point out why certain ADC's are better than other ADC's just to satisfy you? Also "my agenda"; what am I now? a vast gov't conspiracy to brainwash everyone into thinking Godlift is the best (also, ya'll should be getting on the jiji jungle hype train)? You give me too much credit. Don't get all riled up because I choose to rank players from my viewing experience; and you choose not to. It's not any different than my version of power rankings. On June 08 2013 01:12 AsnSensation wrote:On June 08 2013 01:05 TheYango wrote:
Except for Korea.
We can safely say Korea is the best. Oh no question, I just thought the "this continent is better at this position bla" is a bit useless because to me personally it only matters who manages to win the games at the end of the day because you can't argue with results. I'm actually quite interested if you were just as surprised as everyone else that Korea dumped on China so hard, since you are big fan of chinese League/Dota. Korea didn't dump on China; so much as it's all star game and it's not a very good representation of actual skill level of each region. Wouldn't it be much more satisfying taking that time to watch over the games that led you to believe these opinions you have, rather than use the same argument that coincidently happens to side with the North American AD carries every single time compared to whichever AD carry you choose to compare them against? At least that way, we can both learn. As of now, I'm starting to believe that you didn't even have any games to reference your opinions on, and you're just rehashing words from other people's mouths without thinking twice about it, or just making up assumptions based on almost nothing. Seriously, if it isn't just an agenda you're attending to spread, educate me. I have watched games featuring both Cop and Genja, and have some difficulty accurately assessing the two. Considering you've probably watched a whole lot more of them, is it that hard just listing some games that made you realize that Cop was the superior of the two? You said rank on your own personal viewing experience. Then recall that viewing experience so that the rest of can learn. Or else I'll call bullshit. You don't always need specific games, I watched all of the NA LCS and most of the EU LCS and got the vibe that Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit. This is an opinion I think wei2 and I share that really can't be expressed through specific examples in VoDs because it's a feeling that spanned the whole season. "Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit." "Cop is an upgrade to Genja." Surely anyone can see that those two arguments are separate issues that needs to be discussed separately. Furthermore, basing arguments purely off vibes is dumb. We all have our pre-conceived biases, the "vibes" you get from your experiences as a viewer are often wrong, or at least mislead due to the incomplete information we receive from casual viewing experience. Surely we're here to recall, and re-assess, to the best of our capabilities when we discuss these kind of issues, and to do that, we need specific examples and proof. Otherwise we're basically here sharing our gut-feelings. What kind of proof do you want me to find for you? A clip of laning phase where Genja eats too much poke the loses the lane? Or a duel where Cop wins a 2v2 Bot lane fight? I'm all for finding examples but I think this discussion is far too broad for specific examples. I'm sorry if you think my assessment of Cop vs Genja is wrong, but if you want to disprove me please do. The argument of whether Cop is better than Genja isn't really important. I think Cop is more willing to adjust to Edward's playstyle. Over the past year Cop has improved greatly and diversified his champion pool (he used to play Corki like every game). Genja has stayed pretty stagnant relying on Edward to carry him in lane. If you want proof just look at all of Gambit's game, almost every time Gambit's Bot lane gets ahead it's Edward making a play not Genja. Cop plays similarly to Genja so if he adapts a bit I think he will be stronger since he's already used to playing the passive ADC role.
Well you can't really make plays as ad in a lot of situations in lane so that's like w/e.Honestly genja should be a mid player not ad.He is really good at landing skillshots but I can't remember the last time he just went standart adc items and won a game for his team.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;(
There's that middle band of players always that are terrible but aren't so terrible for it to be obvious how terrible they are, so they think they're good.
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On June 08 2013 02:22 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;( ??? That's true at every level
Same here even at Diamond 4
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'm real fucking jealous of people who are naturally good at this game.
One of the players on my 5s team from last season, don't really think he had been playing all that long.
We knew he was good then but I guess we weren't sure how good becuse he barely played ranked.
Is now Diamond 1 in something like 100 games.
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On June 08 2013 02:19 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 01:58 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 08 2013 01:35 MattBarry wrote:
I don't think Rhux was ever meant to be a support player for Curse. I think they're keeping him as a good replacement for Voyboy when he chooses to go back to his education, which is probably after this season He'll probably go back to playing for Curse Academy now. Not a bad back-up, Rhux is a solid Top laner. On June 08 2013 01:43 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:13 wei2coolman wrote:On June 08 2013 01:01 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 00:36 AsnSensation wrote:On June 07 2013 22:35 Lylat wrote:On June 07 2013 16:33 wei2coolman wrote:
Cop is an upgrade to Genja, but not by too much.
Curse real threat now though; Edward can carry cop in lane. No real weaknesses on Curse anymore.
CONFIRMED ON SAINT'S STREAM. hue. Meh, don't think Cop is an upgrade at all, don't know why Genja gets so much hate.. Maybe because he's the less good player in the team ? I'd argue that Darien looked like the weakest player in GG last season I like Wei2 but it's getting rather annoying to read at least twice a weak how NA carries supposedly >>> their european peers Call me biased since I'm european but yeah I'll give God aka Doublelift >>> any EU AD but the rest hasn't shown anything significant that warrants a NA ad > Eu ad generalisation. By significant I mean an apparent skillgap between e.g. Froggen, Peke and Bjergsen (alex has been rather derpy since week 10 of lcs and at allstars) compared to NA Mids. And even that statement might be so true anymore, while we make fun of reginald in LR threads for his shitty tf mechanics or randomy 1v1 deaths, he is still carrying tsm hard with arguably less practice ( not sure how much he plays the game compared the rest since he has many solomid.net commitments. ManCloud and Link look really solid, as well. To come back to NA ad's, none of the "new guys" (turtle, Nien, Zuna, Mashme etc) will get credit in my book unless they've proven themselves in international matches like Doublelift and (rather unsuccesfully) qtpie and Cop. Sry but I just don't see how it's so easy to say that they are >>Genja, Yellowstar, Rekkles, Candypanda, Yellowpete and the other guys. So calling Cop and improvement to Genja is really hilarious since both play the same pussy style but apparently Genja is Gambit's pick/bans mastermind and partly shotcaller. Anyways, CRS EDWARD PLS Don't bother, wei2coolman's not here to discuss the relative assessment of Cop and Genja as AD carries, but here to spread his agenda across, so there's almost no use in debating the issue with him because his mind is already made up. I've called wei2coolman out on his tendencies to spread his agenda across rather than promoting in-depth discussions, and went in painstaking detail in order to ask him to back his statements up with specific games from which he extrapolated his opinions from. It turns out he is content with re-iterating what Doublelift says during his trash-talks and putting faith in them to almost a religious degree. He doesn't need proof apart from his own beliefs, and certainly doesn't think it's necessary convince others by putting forth a worthwhile discussion because it might be detrimental to his drum-beating. That's a lot of shit flinging coming from your mouth. Do you really expect me to go through like 20 VoDs just to point out why certain ADC's are better than other ADC's just to satisfy you? Also "my agenda"; what am I now? a vast gov't conspiracy to brainwash everyone into thinking Godlift is the best (also, ya'll should be getting on the jiji jungle hype train)? You give me too much credit. Don't get all riled up because I choose to rank players from my viewing experience; and you choose not to. It's not any different than my version of power rankings. On June 08 2013 01:12 AsnSensation wrote:On June 08 2013 01:05 TheYango wrote:
Except for Korea.
We can safely say Korea is the best. Oh no question, I just thought the "this continent is better at this position bla" is a bit useless because to me personally it only matters who manages to win the games at the end of the day because you can't argue with results. I'm actually quite interested if you were just as surprised as everyone else that Korea dumped on China so hard, since you are big fan of chinese League/Dota. Korea didn't dump on China; so much as it's all star game and it's not a very good representation of actual skill level of each region. Wouldn't it be much more satisfying taking that time to watch over the games that led you to believe these opinions you have, rather than use the same argument that coincidently happens to side with the North American AD carries every single time compared to whichever AD carry you choose to compare them against? At least that way, we can both learn. As of now, I'm starting to believe that you didn't even have any games to reference your opinions on, and you're just rehashing words from other people's mouths without thinking twice about it, or just making up assumptions based on almost nothing. Seriously, if it isn't just an agenda you're attending to spread, educate me. I have watched games featuring both Cop and Genja, and have some difficulty accurately assessing the two. Considering you've probably watched a whole lot more of them, is it that hard just listing some games that made you realize that Cop was the superior of the two? You said rank on your own personal viewing experience. Then recall that viewing experience so that the rest of can learn. Or else I'll call bullshit. You don't always need specific games, I watched all of the NA LCS and most of the EU LCS and got the vibe that Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit. This is an opinion I think wei2 and I share that really can't be expressed through specific examples in VoDs because it's a feeling that spanned the whole season. "Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit." "Cop is an upgrade to Genja." Surely anyone can see that those two arguments are separate issues that needs to be discussed separately. Furthermore, basing arguments purely off vibes is dumb. We all have our pre-conceived biases, the "vibes" you get from your experiences as a viewer are often wrong, or at least mislead due to the incomplete information we receive from casual viewing experience. Surely we're here to recall, and re-assess, to the best of our capabilities when we discuss these kind of issues, and to do that, we need specific examples and proof. Otherwise we're basically here sharing our gut-feelings. What kind of proof do you want me to find for you? A clip of laning phase where Genja eats too much poke the loses the lane? Or a duel where Cop wins a 2v2 Bot lane fight? I'm all for finding examples but I think this discussion is far too broad for specific examples. The argument of whether Cop is better than Genja isn't really important. I think Cop is more willing to adjust to Edward's playstyle. Over the past year Cop has improved greatly and diversified his champion pool (he used to play Corki like every game). Genja has stayed pretty stagnant relying on Edward to carry him in lane. If you want proof just look at all of Gambit's game, almost every time Gambit's Bot lane gets ahead it's Edward making a play not Genja. Cop plays similarly to Genja so if he adapts a bit I think he will be stronger since he's already used to playing the passive ADC role.
I've seen both Genja and Cop do blatantly obvious misplays, so a bunch of clips wouldn't really help me mold a better perception of these two players. Perhaps the number of lackluster plays on the part of Genja were more numerous in comparison to Cop, I wouldn't know for sure, but it seems you don't really rate his standard of play that highly, which I personally agree with.
However, how does Genja's performance in the EU LCS have any correlation with Cop's performance in the NA LCS? That is the part that puzzles me to no end. What is the measuring stick that you're using here? Because it seems to me that you are rating two players' performances in two separate leagues that has almost zero overlap. By that method of thought process, you could end up with some ridiculous proposals. I've certainly haven't seen enough of these two players to judge them accurately, but the method with which you seem to be rating these players is really flawed in my opinion.
Curse Gaming and Gambit Gaming/M5 actually have played against each other a couple of times, but I don't think Cop and Genja laned against one another directly if I remember right. I mean it's not much, but surely these games should be the more relevant to the discussion of the relative capabilities of Cop and Genja, than some random LCS games against opponents that have no overlap at all. I thought if any comparisons were to be drawn it would be from here. I thought wei2coolman had some insight into these games that I was previously unaware of. I'm starting to think his thought process was as simple as "Cop played good in the games I saw" and "Genja played bad in the games I saw" without considering the various circumstances involving those games at all.
If Edward does indeed join the North American scene, it would be interesting for a various number of reasons. For example, his views on the relative differences between the two regions, and the status of the bottom lanes in particular would provide some insight, biased (because players are heavily influenced by their biases too) as it might be.
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On June 08 2013 02:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;( There's that middle band of players always that are terrible but aren't so terrible for it to be obvious how terrible they are, so they think they're good.
Yeah that middle band of "Silver 5 - Diamond 2". Such an annoying, finite group of lads.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On June 08 2013 02:39 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 08 2013 01:58 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 08 2013 01:35 MattBarry wrote:
I don't think Rhux was ever meant to be a support player for Curse. I think they're keeping him as a good replacement for Voyboy when he chooses to go back to his education, which is probably after this season He'll probably go back to playing for Curse Academy now. Not a bad back-up, Rhux is a solid Top laner. On June 08 2013 01:43 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 01:13 wei2coolman wrote:On June 08 2013 01:01 Letmelose wrote:On June 08 2013 00:36 AsnSensation wrote:On June 07 2013 22:35 Lylat wrote:On June 07 2013 16:33 wei2coolman wrote:
Cop is an upgrade to Genja, but not by too much.
Curse real threat now though; Edward can carry cop in lane. No real weaknesses on Curse anymore.
CONFIRMED ON SAINT'S STREAM. hue. Meh, don't think Cop is an upgrade at all, don't know why Genja gets so much hate.. Maybe because he's the less good player in the team ? I'd argue that Darien looked like the weakest player in GG last season I like Wei2 but it's getting rather annoying to read at least twice a weak how NA carries supposedly >>> their european peers Call me biased since I'm european but yeah I'll give God aka Doublelift >>> any EU AD but the rest hasn't shown anything significant that warrants a NA ad > Eu ad generalisation. By significant I mean an apparent skillgap between e.g. Froggen, Peke and Bjergsen (alex has been rather derpy since week 10 of lcs and at allstars) compared to NA Mids. And even that statement might be so true anymore, while we make fun of reginald in LR threads for his shitty tf mechanics or randomy 1v1 deaths, he is still carrying tsm hard with arguably less practice ( not sure how much he plays the game compared the rest since he has many solomid.net commitments. ManCloud and Link look really solid, as well. To come back to NA ad's, none of the "new guys" (turtle, Nien, Zuna, Mashme etc) will get credit in my book unless they've proven themselves in international matches like Doublelift and (rather unsuccesfully) qtpie and Cop. Sry but I just don't see how it's so easy to say that they are >>Genja, Yellowstar, Rekkles, Candypanda, Yellowpete and the other guys. So calling Cop and improvement to Genja is really hilarious since both play the same pussy style but apparently Genja is Gambit's pick/bans mastermind and partly shotcaller. Anyways, CRS EDWARD PLS Don't bother, wei2coolman's not here to discuss the relative assessment of Cop and Genja as AD carries, but here to spread his agenda across, so there's almost no use in debating the issue with him because his mind is already made up. I've called wei2coolman out on his tendencies to spread his agenda across rather than promoting in-depth discussions, and went in painstaking detail in order to ask him to back his statements up with specific games from which he extrapolated his opinions from. It turns out he is content with re-iterating what Doublelift says during his trash-talks and putting faith in them to almost a religious degree. He doesn't need proof apart from his own beliefs, and certainly doesn't think it's necessary convince others by putting forth a worthwhile discussion because it might be detrimental to his drum-beating. That's a lot of shit flinging coming from your mouth. Do you really expect me to go through like 20 VoDs just to point out why certain ADC's are better than other ADC's just to satisfy you? Also "my agenda"; what am I now? a vast gov't conspiracy to brainwash everyone into thinking Godlift is the best (also, ya'll should be getting on the jiji jungle hype train)? You give me too much credit. Don't get all riled up because I choose to rank players from my viewing experience; and you choose not to. It's not any different than my version of power rankings. On June 08 2013 01:12 AsnSensation wrote:On June 08 2013 01:05 TheYango wrote:
Except for Korea.
We can safely say Korea is the best. Oh no question, I just thought the "this continent is better at this position bla" is a bit useless because to me personally it only matters who manages to win the games at the end of the day because you can't argue with results. I'm actually quite interested if you were just as surprised as everyone else that Korea dumped on China so hard, since you are big fan of chinese League/Dota. Korea didn't dump on China; so much as it's all star game and it's not a very good representation of actual skill level of each region. Wouldn't it be much more satisfying taking that time to watch over the games that led you to believe these opinions you have, rather than use the same argument that coincidently happens to side with the North American AD carries every single time compared to whichever AD carry you choose to compare them against? At least that way, we can both learn. As of now, I'm starting to believe that you didn't even have any games to reference your opinions on, and you're just rehashing words from other people's mouths without thinking twice about it, or just making up assumptions based on almost nothing. Seriously, if it isn't just an agenda you're attending to spread, educate me. I have watched games featuring both Cop and Genja, and have some difficulty accurately assessing the two. Considering you've probably watched a whole lot more of them, is it that hard just listing some games that made you realize that Cop was the superior of the two? You said rank on your own personal viewing experience. Then recall that viewing experience so that the rest of can learn. Or else I'll call bullshit. You don't always need specific games, I watched all of the NA LCS and most of the EU LCS and got the vibe that Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit. This is an opinion I think wei2 and I share that really can't be expressed through specific examples in VoDs because it's a feeling that spanned the whole season. "Cop had a greater impact on Curse than Genja did on Gambit." "Cop is an upgrade to Genja." Surely anyone can see that those two arguments are separate issues that needs to be discussed separately. Furthermore, basing arguments purely off vibes is dumb. We all have our pre-conceived biases, the "vibes" you get from your experiences as a viewer are often wrong, or at least mislead due to the incomplete information we receive from casual viewing experience. Surely we're here to recall, and re-assess, to the best of our capabilities when we discuss these kind of issues, and to do that, we need specific examples and proof. Otherwise we're basically here sharing our gut-feelings. What kind of proof do you want me to find for you? A clip of laning phase where Genja eats too much poke the loses the lane? Or a duel where Cop wins a 2v2 Bot lane fight? I'm all for finding examples but I think this discussion is far too broad for specific examples. The argument of whether Cop is better than Genja isn't really important. I think Cop is more willing to adjust to Edward's playstyle. Over the past year Cop has improved greatly and diversified his champion pool (he used to play Corki like every game). Genja has stayed pretty stagnant relying on Edward to carry him in lane. If you want proof just look at all of Gambit's game, almost every time Gambit's Bot lane gets ahead it's Edward making a play not Genja. Cop plays similarly to Genja so if he adapts a bit I think he will be stronger since he's already used to playing the passive ADC role. I've seen both Genja and Cop do blatantly obvious misplays, so a bunch of clips wouldn't really help me mold a better perception of these two players. Perhaps the number of lackluster plays on the part of Genja were more numerous in comparison to Cop, I wouldn't know for sure, but it seems you don't really rate his standard of play that highly, which I personally agree with. However, how does Genja's performance in the EU LCS have any correlation with Cop's performance in the NA LCS? That is the part that puzzles me to no end. What is the measuring stick that you're using here? Because it seems to me that you are rating two players' performances in two separate leagues that has almost zero overlap. By that method of thought process, you could end up with some ridiculous proposals. I'm certainly haven't seen enough of these two players to judge them accurately, but the method with which you seem to be rating these players is really flawed in my opinion. Curse Gaming and Gambit Gaming/M5 actually have played against each other a couple of times, but I don't think Cop and Genja laned against one another directly if I remember right. I mean it's not much, but surely these games should be the more relevant to the discussion of the relative capabilities of Cop and Genja, than some random LCS games against opponents that have no overlap at all. I thought if any comparisons were to be drawn, I thought wei2coolman had some insight into these games that I was previously unaware of. I'm starting to think his thought process was as simple as "Cop played good in the games I saw" and "Genja played bad in the games I saw" without considering the various circumstances involving those games at all.
thats the problem there is no efficent way to evaluate it. Its just personal opinion and bias. So in the end its a pointless discussion but still a fun one. I mean if you watch sports its the same.
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United States47024 Posts
It's fine when it's just Cop and Genja, but wei2coolman tends to do it with <insert arbitrary NA ADC> and <insert arbitrary ADC from any region other than China>.
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On June 08 2013 02:39 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:28 TheYango wrote:On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;( There's that middle band of players always that are terrible but aren't so terrible for it to be obvious how terrible they are, so they think they're good. Yeah that middle band of "Silver 5 - Diamond 2". Such an annoying, finite group of lads.
i'd say the lower end reaches down to level 10. not even ranked. level 10.
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On June 08 2013 02:44 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:39 jcarlsoniv wrote:On June 08 2013 02:28 TheYango wrote:On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;( There's that middle band of players always that are terrible but aren't so terrible for it to be obvious how terrible they are, so they think they're good. Yeah that middle band of "Silver 5 - Diamond 2". Such an annoying, finite group of lads. i'd say the lower end reaches down to level 10. not even ranked. level 10.
"***** ****** only reason you won was because you're level 12 and got flash lucky ass ****** ***** ******** *** of a *****"
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On June 08 2013 02:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 02:22 Numy wrote:
Seems I've hit the gold tier where everything thinks they the best thing ever and they just can't carry because their team is too heavy ;( There's that middle band of players always that are terrible but aren't so terrible for it to be obvious how terrible they are, so they think they're good.
Gold league, where I get Malph players who build pure armor against AP tops and never ward and wonder why they're 1/6.
The sad thing is, when I check their division, they're about the same as me more often than not. I keep thinking to myself if people who can't even ward can make gold, surely I'm going to make plat one day (hopefully within the week).
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On June 08 2013 02:44 TheYango wrote:
It's fine when it's just Cop and Genja, but wei2coolman tends to do it with <insert arbitrary NA ADC> and <insert arbitrary ADC from any region other than China>.
Why you hating on my hipster na adc picks? Fabby next wt imo. Just a matter of time
Also. Confirmed on saints stream meme holds true.
how is Edward gunna adapt from cold Russian winters to blazing hot vegas?
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EPT
