EPTLike non-skeletal ones.
[Patch 3.07: Nerf Everything Not Nami] General Discussion…
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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Like non-skeletal ones. | ||
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c.Deadly
United States545 Posts
On June 07 2013 11:38 OutlaW- wrote: Is he rage inducing for the other team like Singed and Teemo? As long as he's fun to play, I don't really care about anything else He's rage inducing in the same way as Locket Udyr. If your team kills 2-3 of the enemy team you're guaranteed to clean up because you simply don't die. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
can't say I agree but I can't disprove it. He brought up Quantic Gaming as his example, I never heard of them. I haven't followed the proscene in a while so how would i counter his argument? (unless he's right) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:24 ticklishmusic wrote: Random thing I noticed today: Karthus has hands. Like non-skeletal ones. Classic and Pentakill appear to have non-skeletal hands. Phantom, Grim Reaper, and Statue of Karthus seem to have skeletal hands. On June 07 2013 12:30 Kenpachi wrote: My friend said individual skill > team synergy can't say I agree but I can't disprove it. He brought up Quantic Gaming as his example, I never heard of them. I haven't followed the proscene in a while so how would i counter his argument? (unless he's right) A statement like that is totally meaningless. Obviously if you have Diamonds playing against Bronze players, then yes "individual skill > team synergy", but in general how do you even measure those two "skills" on any reasonable common scale to make a comparison? | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:30 Kenpachi wrote: My friend said individual skill > team synergy can't say I agree but I can't disprove it. He brought up Quantic Gaming as his example, I never heard of them. I haven't followed the proscene in a while so how would i counter his argument? (unless he's right) team synergy > individual skill because there is little room to outplay people who don't flat out make mistakes, the team with better strategy and team movement will win more often than not The other thing is that almost nothing requires skill to execute, most of it is basically decision making and once you reach a level of play where people have good decision making, games tend to be decided by things like pushing/taking dragon/forcing objectives which are inherently a team based effort Don't think there are any facts to use in this argument, but at least know that I agree with you very heavily | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
There are a lot of alternate role choices that I think people aren't considering that work just fine, they just aren't standard or popular or whatever. Lee and Wukong work fine top or mid. Jayce can go top, mid or adc. Cho works fine top, mid or jungle. Jarvan works fine top, mid, jungle or support. Karthus, Akali and Zyra jungle all work, Maokai works mid or jungle, Quinn works fine top, mid or adc, and that's just a few I've pulled out of my ass. A lot of it is that there's a conventional way to play the different roles in the game and it's simply difficult to do something unconventional when the other 4 people you're playing with aren't on the ball, since in order to have a strong team comp you picking Karthus jungle means your mid has to pick something that isn't blue buff reliant and has CC, and they're not necessarily just gonna go okay and grab Lissandra or Cho or Malphite or something. I don't see much of an argument that these non-standard choices aren't viable given the right team composition, nor do I see much evidence for Riot actively preventing champion alternate roles from working, except for the whole top lane Nunu thing recently. And they explained their reasoning for that and it made sense, top lane Nunu has a toxic playstyle that they don't like. And support Nunu was simply too strong. Not really sure what the deal is. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:17 Seuss wrote: The last time I messed around with Aatrox he was simply dumb with BotRK + SV. The moment you drop to half health you become invincible because the healing on his W triples. He can practically solo baron with just those two items. He also becomes deceptively tanky because he gets so much free health from his passive and his ultimate. He seems like the kind of champion that will snowball hard if given an advantage. Kinda like this, he is too snowbally for sure. @ Ketara. Lets not confuse viability with good. Have I won games with Jungle Kat? Yes. Such a thing does not weigh on serious balance discussions. | ||
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:38 Ketara wrote: I feel like a lot of these comments that champions can't play multiple positions are just flat out wrong. There are a lot of alternate role choices that I think people aren't considering that work just fine, they just aren't standard or popular or whatever. Lee and Wukong work fine top or mid. Jayce can go top, mid or adc. Cho works fine top, mid or jungle. Jarvan works fine top, mid, jungle or support. Karthus, Akali and Zyra jungle all work, Maokai works mid or jungle, Quinn works fine top, mid or adc, and that's just a few I've pulled out of my ass. A lot of it is that there's a conventional way to play the different roles in the game and it's simply difficult to do something unconventional when the other 4 people you're playing with aren't on the ball, since in order to have a strong team comp you picking Karthus jungle means your mid has to pick something that isn't blue buff reliant and has CC, and they're not necessarily just gonna go okay and grab Lissandra or Cho or Malphite or something. I don't see much of an argument that these non-standard choices aren't viable given the right team composition, nor do I see much evidence for Riot actively preventing champion alternate roles from working, except for the whole top lane Nunu thing recently. And they explained their reasoning for that and it made sense, top lane Nunu has a toxic playstyle that they don't like. And support Nunu was simply too strong. Not really sure what the deal is. I would agree with this mostly. However I feel that support champions are an exception to this, very few of the common support champions are very good elsewhere, and I think Riot actively nerfed things to stop several of them from becoming strong mid-laners (Lulu, Soraka) or just made them very weak in other roles to begin with (Nami). | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
So I can understand that characters Riot wants to be bot lane supports tend to get nerfed into being unable to do anything with solo lane farm. But even still, there are supports that work in other areas. Janna works mid. Zyra works mid. LB and Elise and Fid can all support and work in other places. Jarvan can support and works like everywhere. Nunu can support and works elsewhere. I'm told Lulu mid is still viable, just not super strong. Taric I think Riot wants to work top/jungle, but maybe still needs a little tweaking. Thresh can top or jungle. Karma can mid. I saw Blitzcrank top in a pro game once! The supports that absolutely can't do anything but support are like, Soraka and Sona, really. Nami I suppose. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
Just load 'em up with CC and ally-buffing skills, give them kinda bad ratios, and there's a support hero | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On June 07 2013 11:17 OutlaW- wrote: Isn't it half confirmed that it's Udyr? Oh god where did you hear that Please no | ||
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silencefc
United States875 Posts
Look at the AllStar teams. Pretty much none of them would be able to regularly beat their respective teams. + Show Spoiler + Except maybe Korea. <3 Insec & MadLife. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On June 07 2013 06:48 Jojo131 wrote: Although being squishy is more to do with build choice, you're probably right since most Jayce's dont build tanky anyway. I find that the lack of ulti is compensated with his relatively jammed kit, and his mana problems are solved relatively fine due built in sustain and common build path. Lack of sustain is a pretty big deal for him too - especially top lane. | ||
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c.Deadly
United States545 Posts
Saint said (in a reddit AMA I think) that the next ultimate skin was for one of his favorite champions, and that it looks amazing. I think that semi-confirms it's a jungler. Also riot has confirmed that Udyr has had a skin in the works for a long, long time. | ||
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Brambled
United States750 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Maybe a champ where skills need to be combo'd for maximum effectiveness (to prevent focusing on a single skill to be really effective) might work though. We have some champs with 2 skills interacting, but apart from Orianna, I don't think there's any champ that really has all their skills interact (I don't count Leblanc and Karma). Individual skills couldn't be useless to the point where you're a glorified creep until lvl 3, but yeah. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On June 07 2013 13:49 ticklishmusic wrote: I think an ideal "itemless support" would simply have to have absolutely pathetic ratios, but their skills would scale strongly in every other respect per level (cooldown, base damage, CC duration, heal strength, etc.) The problem with that is that I think such a champion would be then incredibly strong at certain points early on. Maybe a champ where skills need to be combo'd for maximum effectiveness (to prevent focusing on a single skill to be really effective) might work though. We have some champs with 2 skills interacting, but apart from Orianna, I don't think there's any champ that really has all their skills interact (I don't count Leblanc and Karma). Individual skills couldn't be useless to the point where you're a glorified creep until lvl 3, but yeah. I don't think supports being completely broken early game and then either as weak as they are now or even slightly weaker later late game is a bad idea. Not sure if it would work well, as it's a little dota-esque, but I would definitely want it to be at least tested. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On June 07 2013 13:18 Ketara wrote: The issue with support is that in order for a champion to be good as a zero farm support, they need to be good with zero items. If they're good with zero items and also good with 6 items, that obviously creates a bit of a balance problem. So I can understand that characters Riot wants to be bot lane supports tend to get nerfed into being unable to do anything with solo lane farm. But even still, there are supports that work in other areas. Janna works mid. Zyra works mid. LB and Elise and Fid can all support and work in other places. Jarvan can support and works like everywhere. Nunu can support and works elsewhere. I'm told Lulu mid is still viable, just not super strong. Taric I think Riot wants to work top/jungle, but maybe still needs a little tweaking. Thresh can top or jungle. Karma can mid. I saw Blitzcrank top in a pro game once! The supports that absolutely can't do anything but support are like, Soraka and Sona, really. Nami I suppose. I feel like top taric with items is probably on the too strong side. he's kinda obnoxiously strong truthfully | ||
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