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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. |
On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue.
Here's the thing though. 3/4 or 4/5 is not a "win streak". It's expected that you will win 3/4 or 4/5 games by normal variance.
If you can never win 3 out of 4 games, how the hell are you maintaining a 50% win rate? No one has wins in a perfect W-L-W-L-W-L-W-L pattern.
EDIT: Basically, are you saying you'd rather have the SC2 system where you can be in a situation where you lose a game, then get promoted?
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United States23745 Posts
I'm pretty neutral on the new system. But like Yango said (in so many words), who cares if the rankings are fucked, just play to improve and try to measure improvement on your own terms and not the system's arbitrary numbers.
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On June 05 2013 01:03 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. Here's the thing though. 3/4 or 4/5 is not a "win streak". It's expected that you will win 3/4 or 4/5 games by normal variance. If you can never win 3 out of 4 games, how the hell are you maintaining a 50% win rate? No one has wins in a perfect W-L-W-L-W-L-W-L pattern.
50% win rate that gets you into a series but you fail it:
WLLW
WLWL
WWLL
If you have a 50% win rate it's very easy not to promote.
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On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.)
It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3.
Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote:
"I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)"
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On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)"
You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4.
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On June 05 2013 00:55 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 00:46 Sandster wrote:On June 05 2013 00:45 Keniji wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:
EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one.
what? I second this - What? I've yet to meet someone who likes the new system better. I guess you're the first. On June 05 2013 00:31 Kenpark wrote:Anyway my question still stands - what's Zed's status right now competitively? I know he's not as strong as before, but he really needed nerfs. I've never played him and am thinking of buying him. I´m sorry I can´t really help you on this, but from watching streams etc, he is def seen less. In Eu the imo best mids Alex and Bjerg both seem to favor Ori, Kha and Jayce these days. Both played a lot of Zed before I think esp Bjerg. Oh and Quinn ofc. I have seen them discuss builds/items on Quinn, so we might see him soon in the mid lane. Interesting, thanks for the update. I expect Kha and Jayce nerfs soon, so it'll be interesting to see Quinn mid. Kha nerfs area already on the PBE, so next patch. Nothing on Jayce yet. Honestly the current state of Muramana is playing a big part in his incredibly strong state.
Are those Kah nerfs meaningful though? I briefly saw them and it didn't seem all that impactful - am I missing something? You're still going to evolve W first for the wave clear. The biggest change seemed to be W not consuming the passive so the poke is less strong.
And yeah Muramana is pretty dumb.
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My biggest issue with promotion series right now is that when you win one, you're placed in the new division at 0 points.
Which means you can get dropped again from two losses immediately after.
Which also means that the system has to compensate you for the fact that you won 2/3 or 3/5 games, and yet got 0 points for it. Sometimes even worse than that because sometimes your game that got you into the promotion series only gave 2 points or something.
I don't see what's so hard about tracking the number of points you get for winning a game while you're in the series, and putting you at that when you get out of the series. It would mean there is an actual difference between going 2-0 and going 2-1, make it harder to drop the division immediately after if you get unlucky, etc.
All the little quirks in the system seem to be erring on the side of preventing people from advancing, which just seems like poor design to me. If they make a system that for actual matchmaking purposes means functionally nothing, they should want it to be as much as possible a system that makes people feel good and makes them want to play more, or make them feel like they're improving when maybe they aren't improving so much.
But it doesn't. Instead it's stressful at best and a stupid inconvenience at worst. I have yet to see anybody come out in favor of the system at all, or provide any sort of reasonable argument for why it's a good thing the way it is.
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On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4.
I'm gonna try one more time, i can't really express this any different.
You will always have to win a game prior to a promotion series, however it's the promotion series that actually counts. Screw the points, they're a matter of progression earned for the series you're about to play. The whole point of this system is to show that you can win 2 out of 3 games or 3 out of 5 games to be able to progress further.
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On June 05 2013 01:17 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 00:55 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 05 2013 00:46 Sandster wrote:On June 05 2013 00:45 Keniji wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:
EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one.
what? I second this - What? I've yet to meet someone who likes the new system better. I guess you're the first. On June 05 2013 00:31 Kenpark wrote:Anyway my question still stands - what's Zed's status right now competitively? I know he's not as strong as before, but he really needed nerfs. I've never played him and am thinking of buying him. I´m sorry I can´t really help you on this, but from watching streams etc, he is def seen less. In Eu the imo best mids Alex and Bjerg both seem to favor Ori, Kha and Jayce these days. Both played a lot of Zed before I think esp Bjerg. Oh and Quinn ofc. I have seen them discuss builds/items on Quinn, so we might see him soon in the mid lane. Interesting, thanks for the update. I expect Kha and Jayce nerfs soon, so it'll be interesting to see Quinn mid. Kha nerfs area already on the PBE, so next patch. Nothing on Jayce yet. Honestly the current state of Muramana is playing a big part in his incredibly strong state. Are those Kah nerfs meaningful though? I briefly saw them and it didn't seem all that impactful - am I missing something? You're still going to evolve W first for the wave clear. The biggest change seemed to be W not consuming the passive so the poke is less strong. And yeah Muramana is pretty dumb.
I think the big Khazix hit is that it will make his W not consume the passive on minions, so he will need two W's to kill caster minions until he has like a BT or something.
This means he has to stick around in lane and melee at least some of them every wave, which will hopefully make people think hey, my unevolved W slows now, my evolved Q is badass, if I have to stick around anyway, I could evolve Q-E and focus on actually killing the enemy laner instead of passive farming.
I'm not 100% on that though, somebody correct me if I'm fulloshit.
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United States23745 Posts
On June 05 2013 01:17 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 00:55 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 05 2013 00:46 Sandster wrote:On June 05 2013 00:45 Keniji wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:
EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one.
what? I second this - What? I've yet to meet someone who likes the new system better. I guess you're the first. On June 05 2013 00:31 Kenpark wrote:Anyway my question still stands - what's Zed's status right now competitively? I know he's not as strong as before, but he really needed nerfs. I've never played him and am thinking of buying him. I´m sorry I can´t really help you on this, but from watching streams etc, he is def seen less. In Eu the imo best mids Alex and Bjerg both seem to favor Ori, Kha and Jayce these days. Both played a lot of Zed before I think esp Bjerg. Oh and Quinn ofc. I have seen them discuss builds/items on Quinn, so we might see him soon in the mid lane. Interesting, thanks for the update. I expect Kha and Jayce nerfs soon, so it'll be interesting to see Quinn mid. Kha nerfs area already on the PBE, so next patch. Nothing on Jayce yet. Honestly the current state of Muramana is playing a big part in his incredibly strong state. Are those Kah nerfs meaningful though? I briefly saw them and it didn't seem all that impactful - am I missing something? You're still going to evolve W first for the wave clear. The biggest change seemed to be W not consuming the passive so the poke is less strong. And yeah Muramana is pretty dumb.
It should be noticeable, I think you're underestimating how much damage he applies with the passive proc on evolved W, it's the main reason it hits like a truck. Plus the wave clear is gonna be weaker too since the passive applied to minions as well. Q is gonna be buffed but not sure the impact that will have. There was also something about evolved R losing the damage reduction when stealthed. If all that goes through Kha will be significantly weaker. But yeah, change Muramana back to magic damage, Riot pls.
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On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4.
Here's another scenario: You're at 95LP, your MMR is much higher than your division, so you're getting a bit more than 2x the LP from wins than losses. You go L-L-W-L-L-W (promotion series) W-L-W, promotion. Look, you just promoted having a sub-50% win rate.
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I guess the changes to Kha is to focus him in being an assassin (you know, his intended job) instead of "Hey I can do freaking EVERYTHING". Can't complain about that.
On June 05 2013 01:28 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4. Here's another scenario: You're at 95LP, your MMR is much higher than your division, so you're getting a bit more than 2x the LP from wins than losses. You go L-L-W-L-L-W (promotion series) W-L-W, promotion. Look, you just promoted having a sub-50% win rate.
Suggesting you shouldn't have been in your division in the first place.
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On June 05 2013 01:22 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4. I'm gonna try one more time, i can't really express this any different. You will always have to win a game prior to a promotion series, however it's the promotion series that actually counts. Screw the points, they're a matter of progression earned for the series you're about to play. The whole point of this system is to show that you can win 2 out of 3 games or 3 out of 5 games to be able to progress further.
If they want to show that I can win 2/3 games, COUNT THE GAME I PLAY TO GET INTO THE PROMOTION SERIES. You can't just ignore it, it took time, luck, and changed your MMR and therefore the people you're playing against. They're saying you only need to have a 2/3 win ratio to proceed, but you really need a 3/4 win ratio to proceed because you can't get to the proceeding ceremony without winning the prior one.
That's like doing 200 pushups, and then someone saying "nice job doing pushups, can you do 200 pushups?" Well yes, I just did and now I'm fucking tired. I might not be able to do another 200 in a row right afterwards.
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New discussion, Does TL ever do in houses, is there a regular one, maybe we can organise some shit :3
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On June 05 2013 01:32 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:22 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4. I'm gonna try one more time, i can't really express this any different. You will always have to win a game prior to a promotion series, however it's the promotion series that actually counts. Screw the points, they're a matter of progression earned for the series you're about to play. The whole point of this system is to show that you can win 2 out of 3 games or 3 out of 5 games to be able to progress further. If they want to show that I can win 2/3 games, COUNT THE GAME I PLAY TO GET INTO THE PROMOTION SERIES. You can't just ignore it, it took time, luck, and changed your MMR and therefore the people you're playing against. They're saying you only need to have a 2/3 win ratio to proceed, but you really need a 3/4 win ratio to proceed because you can't get to the proceeding ceremony without winning the prior one. That's like doing 200 pushups, and then someone saying "nice job doing pushups, can you do 200 pushups?" Well yes, I just did and now I'm fucking tired. I might not be able to do another 200 in a row right afterwards.
No it's like you doing 200 push-ups, then the guy says "can you do another 20?".
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On June 05 2013 01:36 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:32 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:22 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4. I'm gonna try one more time, i can't really express this any different. You will always have to win a game prior to a promotion series, however it's the promotion series that actually counts. Screw the points, they're a matter of progression earned for the series you're about to play. The whole point of this system is to show that you can win 2 out of 3 games or 3 out of 5 games to be able to progress further. If they want to show that I can win 2/3 games, COUNT THE GAME I PLAY TO GET INTO THE PROMOTION SERIES. You can't just ignore it, it took time, luck, and changed your MMR and therefore the people you're playing against. They're saying you only need to have a 2/3 win ratio to proceed, but you really need a 3/4 win ratio to proceed because you can't get to the proceeding ceremony without winning the prior one. That's like doing 200 pushups, and then someone saying "nice job doing pushups, can you do 200 pushups?" Well yes, I just did and now I'm fucking tired. I might not be able to do another 200 in a row right afterwards. No it's like you doing 200 push-ups, then the guy says "can you do another 20?".
You're just being argumentative and belittling, which makes you seem less intelligent than I hope you are. Riot has flat out said that they place your MMR temporarily higher during your promo series to be more of a challenge. If you make it to your promo series, not only do you have to win probably 2 games in your division (unlikely to go Loss Win and get into promo unless your MMR is way fucked up), then you have to play and win 2/3 games at an artificially increased MMR, where you'll likely struggle if the opponents are at where they should be.
It's created in such a way that it promotes stagnation on the surface, while at the core MMR pretty much works exactly like ELO did in the past. So basically all they did was make it so you play against the people you did before, but make it intentionally more difficult to change your shiny badge one way or another.
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On June 05 2013 01:46 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:36 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:32 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:22 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4. I'm gonna try one more time, i can't really express this any different. You will always have to win a game prior to a promotion series, however it's the promotion series that actually counts. Screw the points, they're a matter of progression earned for the series you're about to play. The whole point of this system is to show that you can win 2 out of 3 games or 3 out of 5 games to be able to progress further. If they want to show that I can win 2/3 games, COUNT THE GAME I PLAY TO GET INTO THE PROMOTION SERIES. You can't just ignore it, it took time, luck, and changed your MMR and therefore the people you're playing against. They're saying you only need to have a 2/3 win ratio to proceed, but you really need a 3/4 win ratio to proceed because you can't get to the proceeding ceremony without winning the prior one. That's like doing 200 pushups, and then someone saying "nice job doing pushups, can you do 200 pushups?" Well yes, I just did and now I'm fucking tired. I might not be able to do another 200 in a row right afterwards. No it's like you doing 200 push-ups, then the guy says "can you do another 20?". You're just being argumentative and belittling, which makes you seem less intelligent than I hope you are. Riot has flat out said that they place your MMR temporarily higher during your promo series to be more of a challenge. If you make it to your promo series, not only do you have to win probably 2 games in your division (unlikely to go Loss Win and get into promo unless your MMR is way fucked up), then you have to play and win 2/3 games at an artificially increased MMR, where you'll likely struggle if the opponents are at where they should be. It's created in such a way that it promotes stagnation on the surface, while at the core MMR pretty much works exactly like ELO did in the past. So basically all they did was make it so you play against the people you did before, but make it intentionally more difficult to change your shiny badge one way or another.
on the flip side, you can't lose the badge though
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On June 05 2013 00:55 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 00:46 Sandster wrote:On June 05 2013 00:45 Keniji wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:
EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one.
what? I second this - What? I've yet to meet someone who likes the new system better. I guess you're the first. On June 05 2013 00:31 Kenpark wrote:Anyway my question still stands - what's Zed's status right now competitively? I know he's not as strong as before, but he really needed nerfs. I've never played him and am thinking of buying him. I´m sorry I can´t really help you on this, but from watching streams etc, he is def seen less. In Eu the imo best mids Alex and Bjerg both seem to favor Ori, Kha and Jayce these days. Both played a lot of Zed before I think esp Bjerg. Oh and Quinn ofc. I have seen them discuss builds/items on Quinn, so we might see him soon in the mid lane. Interesting, thanks for the update. I expect Kha and Jayce nerfs soon, so it'll be interesting to see Quinn mid. Kha nerfs area already on the PBE, so next patch. Nothing on Jayce yet. Honestly the current state of Muramana is playing a big part in his incredibly strong state.
Smash said that there won't be any nerfs on Jayce this patch, they'll work on it for the next one (apparently it's hard to figure out exactly where his excessive power is, and how to fix it).
On June 05 2013 01:23 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:17 Sandster wrote:On June 05 2013 00:55 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 05 2013 00:46 Sandster wrote:On June 05 2013 00:45 Keniji wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:
EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one.
what? I second this - What? I've yet to meet someone who likes the new system better. I guess you're the first. On June 05 2013 00:31 Kenpark wrote:Anyway my question still stands - what's Zed's status right now competitively? I know he's not as strong as before, but he really needed nerfs. I've never played him and am thinking of buying him. I´m sorry I can´t really help you on this, but from watching streams etc, he is def seen less. In Eu the imo best mids Alex and Bjerg both seem to favor Ori, Kha and Jayce these days. Both played a lot of Zed before I think esp Bjerg. Oh and Quinn ofc. I have seen them discuss builds/items on Quinn, so we might see him soon in the mid lane. Interesting, thanks for the update. I expect Kha and Jayce nerfs soon, so it'll be interesting to see Quinn mid. Kha nerfs area already on the PBE, so next patch. Nothing on Jayce yet. Honestly the current state of Muramana is playing a big part in his incredibly strong state. Are those Kah nerfs meaningful though? I briefly saw them and it didn't seem all that impactful - am I missing something? You're still going to evolve W first for the wave clear. The biggest change seemed to be W not consuming the passive so the poke is less strong. And yeah Muramana is pretty dumb. I think the big Khazix hit is that it will make his W not consume the passive on minions, so he will need two W's to kill caster minions until he has like a BT or something.
It's even worse than that: currently Kha'Zix's passive is only consumed when it hits champions, if his evolved W only hits minions his passive will be applied but not consumed.
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On June 05 2013 01:32 Sandster wrote:I guess the changes to Kha is to focus him in being an assassin (you know, his intended job) instead of "Hey I can do freaking EVERYTHING". Can't complain about that. Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 01:28 thenexusp wrote:On June 05 2013 01:14 AwayFromLife wrote:On June 05 2013 01:09 Sponkz wrote:On June 05 2013 01:00 Capped wrote:On June 05 2013 00:42 Sponkz wrote:On June 04 2013 23:19 Capped wrote:
Guys you dont realise how the promotion system works. Its not 2/3 its never been 2/3.
Its been at the very least 3/4 wins. Usually 4/5 Because u have to work your way into promotion series first and then go 2/3, winning your way into promotion series never comes from a loss. You HAVE to win prior to the 2/3 streak. You also almost never get put into a promotion series 1 win after a loss (iunless your MMR is super high in which case fuck you im jelly), which makes it 4/5 because you need 2 in a row THEN 2/3 games.
The most common way of getting into a promotion series is getting to 60/70 points then winning 2 in a row to be thrown into promotions for a 2/3 test. So it makes it 4 out of 5 wins needed to be promoted. In which two of those wins have to be in a row or your "reset" to needing 4/5 with 2 in a row. (Going from 60-70 to 80-90 then back down again)
TL;DR - It aint 2/3 wins needed, and its shoshilly.
(Ofc going something like 9/10 from 0 points to promotion is entirely possible, i just wasnt going to math out anything lower lol.)
This is why the league system is stupid, it requires you to go on massive streaks to get anywhere when your supposed to be at a 50% win/loss by design. Your MMR never stops getting higher / lower so you cant be expected to smash the living shit out of your opponents in a league because you might not even be facing people in it.
This system would work perfectly if it wasnt paired with MMR / hidden Elo. Your better then your league, your still matched vs people in said league, you smash them on a streak and get promoted.
Atm its, Your better then your league, your matched with people higher then your league (and thus relative to your skill), your expected to smash them and go on a massive streak anyway.
I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)
Instead, it does this to you repeatedly for an extended period of time before constantly throwing you in a 3/4 series (1 win to get into a promotion series) which is STILL 75% win needed on a 50/50 system.
TL;DR League system is borked to fuck and means nothing. It is 2 out of 3 wins to win a promotion, regardless of how large a win-streak you're on prior to this. It doesn't matter if you're on a 5 win streak and then get into promotion, you always need to win 2 out of 3 games to get promoted. You can't just blantly change it, because you had to win x amount of games to get into your promotion. So stop saying that. Also the League system is more than fine, if you think the system is broken, then i suggest you write an email to RIOT with your concerns, and see if they want to take actions or not (i can already tell you they won't). You don't need a 80% win/loss ratio to climb the ladder. You just need to get your points, win your promotion, get more points, win your promotions etc. I have a 59,8% win rate and I'm Diamond IV at the moment. You care way too much about how much you have to win in a row, that you fail to see the point. It's not impossible to go on a 5-win streak, and then go 2-0 in your promotion, especially not if you care about waiting, to minimize the terribad games where you go 0-5 in lane or shit like that. The biggest fail i see from my mates, is that they spam solo Q 24/7 trying to climb the ladder. This means that while they will have some games where they massively stomp, they will also have the games i sometimes experience in normal games or ARAM aka. playing like a total noob. If you don't honestly believe that you can't queue to solo queue and carry those 4 immense retards on your team, play another game-type or wait a few hours, then when you're ready, you are 100% mentally prepared to just give it your best shot and not give any fucks regarding the system, the points or the divisions. EDIT: Sorry for the somewhat harsh tone, but it's getting frustrating that more and more people whine in GD about the new system, when almost everyone agrees that it's 100 times better than the old one. So, it doesnt matter that you HAVE to win prior to a promotion series (no matter how many it actually is, just say its one win for the sake of this) that one extra win MAKES it a 3/4. There is no question, it just states 2/3 wins because it puts you into a promotion series after the win that puts you there, you still need 3 wins in 4 games. Period. If thats wrong, let me know when you go into a promotion series after a loss, im yet to see it. Nobody who complains likes the new system. Pretty much everybody hates it in fact. You dont need 80% win/loss all the time, i never stated that, but the usual method for a promotion is a 4/5 (or 4/4) game record. (2 wins, then 2 wins 1 loss however you want to put it.) even removing that to 3/4, its a 75% win/loss. The system REQUIRES you to go on a winstreak, i never said you needed that win % all the time, or that a win streak wasnt possible, its just stupid that its required of you to do so, when it tries to put you at a 50/50 w/l all the time (Hidden elo) You seem to just want to shout at me about things i didnt actually talk about anyway, so carry on. I know im actually 100% right on everything i said so i wont argue. I wasnt even "complaining" so to speak, i was outlining how it works and the flaws in the system. I actually could care less because either way, i was going to get put where i am now but the only useful statistic in determining that is now hidden behind a wall of shite.(even though WoS pointed out i get mad :<, this isnt one of those times.) It's still not 4/5 or 5/6 games you have to win. You play for your points, you get into a promotion series, and u either go 2-0, 2-1 or 1-2. I know it seems silly, because in fact you could be on a 4/5 winning streak and still get promoted, but the system doesn't care about that. You get 100 points, get put into a promotion series against equally or better people, and have to win 2 out 3. Also, you made it really hard for me to NOT bash about the win/loss % in general since you wrote: "I mean who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to make it so you need an 80% w/l ratio when the system by design TRYHARDS to make you go 50%? (80% win/loss on the assumption you need 4/5 wins which is the norm.)" You're not getting it. You need to go 3/4 to get promoted (or 4/6 for levels). If you're at 99 points, you need to win 3 out of the next 4 games, with one of those games being the first. To get into a promotion series, you need to win the game prior to it. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. You can have whatever win ratio prior to that point, but to go from Plat 3 -> Plat 2, you need to go 3/4. Here's another scenario: You're at 95LP, your MMR is much higher than your division, so you're getting a bit more than 2x the LP from wins than losses. You go L-L-W-L-L-W (promotion series) W-L-W, promotion. Look, you just promoted having a sub-50% win rate. Suggesting you shouldn't have been in your division in the first place.
If your MMR = your division, you don't deserve to get to the next division with a mere 50% win rate.
If your MMR >> your division, I've just shown you don't need a 50% win rate to get to the next division.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 05 2013 01:36 Capped wrote:
New discussion, Does TL ever do in houses, is there a regular one, maybe we can organise some shit :3
we used to but everyone started to hate them because some people decided to troll and others decided to tryhard leading to pretty unsatisfying games.
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EPT
