• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:02
CET 16:02
KST 00:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion7Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! When will we find out if there are more tournament Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files
Tourneys
$70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea Video Footage from 2005: The Birth of G2 in Spain
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1689 users

[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 110

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 189 Next
Vanka
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
China1336 Posts
May 08 2013 04:06 GMT
#2181
After a certain point, you expect snowball items to no longer work, but even at plat 1-2, mejai's is a core item on lux here on the chinese server. I have won games that I should have not have cause our lux bought a mejai's, and I have lost games that seemed impossible to lose, because the lux on the enemy team bought a mejai's and our team all went and suicided into her even when she was slightly losing lane before.

It's easy to say to focus lux, but the mechanical skill level here is high enough that a fed lux (so, having 7-10 stacks) can skirt around a teamfight so easily that it is incredibly difficult to crawl up from a snowballed advantage. Between the aoe for assists, and the lazer kills, the stacks keep on building up. I'm not saying lux with mejai's is anywhere near broken, but with players who hit their skillshots consistantly, mejai's is actually effective enough to be viable.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
May 08 2013 04:10 GMT
#2182
I don't really understand why Leviathan was taken out of the game but Soulstealer and Occult were left. :/
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 08 2013 04:12 GMT
#2183
On May 08 2013 13:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't really understand why Leviathan was taken out of the game but Soulstealer and Occult were left. :/

Cuz Riot thinks getting more health doesn't improve your offensive capability to get "kills" and is some how "backwards logic".
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 08 2013 04:14 GMT
#2184
On May 08 2013 12:57 wei2coolman wrote:
As much hate as akali gets for being op'd and snowbally as a champ, she was alright design wise as a hybrid champ.


Akali isn't hybrid + she is so binary design-wise, so I must disagree.

Plus Jax is a perfectly designed hybrid, only BOTRK is so strong and you only can build 1 offensive item on him until late and those are Triforce/Nashors.

If you had a ranged Jax, it would be a real Hybrid, if you gave hybrids multiplicative scaling that is.
Freeeeeeedom
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-08 04:18:42
May 08 2013 04:15 GMT
#2185
On May 08 2013 13:12 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2013 13:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
I don't really understand why Leviathan was taken out of the game but Soulstealer and Occult were left. :/

Cuz Riot thinks getting more health doesn't improve your offensive capability to get "kills" and is some how "backwards logic".


Leona with Leviathan was soooo fun though. Manmode in, get out with 10 hp. If you live the first time you all in like that, you basically will win each team fight after that.

It doesn't make you do more damage, but it rewarded good tanks so much. If you played properly by soaking damage, zoning and eating up spells but not dying, you got incredibly strong. I think/ thought it was actually the most snowbally of snowball items tbh.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
May 08 2013 04:25 GMT
#2186
On May 08 2013 11:50 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2013 11:17 upperbound wrote:
Now that riot has increased champ power levels and made health stacking the preferred strategy for getting tanky, can we please open up the design space for some more hybrid itemization?

Hybrid in the sense of AD/AP?

The thing is that AD/AP hybrids have more or less be come an obsolescent concept design-wise because the role of "mixed caster + sustained damage dealer" is already filled by the AD caster concept. It's easier to fill that design space with AD casters because hybrids have the fundamental item design issue that unless the items in question are absurdly overpowered they generally tend to be ONLY useful for those champs and are therefore quite one-dimensional.

I don't see why there can't be both. It would require adding some additional ratios to existing champs (I think there should be more scaling like Ezreal where spells can scale on AP, AD, or both) or replacing other ratios, but it would work. I think the point would be better ability to customize team damage and strategy, and allowing champs to fill different roles and play different styles.

For example, let's imagine Graves with added AP ratios on Q and R. I could legitimately see Graves being played as AD, AP or Hybrid. Varus could already play hybrid if he had item support. These things change nothing about these champs' ability to play in the AD role, but also add the option of a much different playstyle with a different power curve if there were more choices. I like choices. If Riot spent the next 6 months not adding a single new champ, and instead giving me ways to play many of the 113 champs in completely new ways, that would be a welcome investment from me (though admittedly this would never happen because this change would bring no revenue from current players).

I'm not sure Nashor's Tooth on Kayle illustrates a problem with hybrid damage, more a problem with having an AP ratio on an autoattack (Kayle is a pretty good hero when she can apply 40% of her AP 5 times per 4 seconds while being immune to damage). The problem is less pronounced on Teemo where you at least have a stacking dot instead of front loaded damage, but even AP Teemo saw action because of how strong this mechanic can be.

I will convince you to break your bonds from the current meta, Yango. And I'll write a story about it. It will be Yango Unchained.
Vanka
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
China1336 Posts
May 08 2013 04:44 GMT
#2187
On May 08 2013 13:01 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2013 12:58 Ketara wrote:
I think what's cooler than a hybrid champ really is a champ that can legitimately be built either AP or AD depending on what you want to do.

I don't know how many more Tristanas and Ezreals we're going to see, though.

I don't think that's what people have in mind when they say they want "hybrid" champs, though. Hybrid generally refers to champs that build AD and AP simultaneously and scale off both.

Trist and Ez can be built AP, sure, but AP Trist/Ez are vastly inferior to their AD counterparts. I don't consider them hybrid at all.
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2013 13:00 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2013 12:57 wei2coolman wrote:
As much hate as akali gets for being op'd and snowbally as a champ, she was alright design wise as a hybrid champ.

If it weren't for Gunblade she'd be a 100% AP champ (just like Kayle would be a 100% AP champ if it weren't for Nashor's being made specifically just so she can buy it). Again, hybrid design revolving around making singular one-dimensional items that are completely worthless for any other champs.

Honestly I think Nashor's is 100% an AP item...


Clearly you should be going BC and then stack AP items on MF to take advantage of how it's easier to get higher numbers of AP than AD
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
May 08 2013 04:54 GMT
#2188
On May 08 2013 13:44 Vanka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2013 13:01 Ryuu314 wrote:
On May 08 2013 12:58 Ketara wrote:
I think what's cooler than a hybrid champ really is a champ that can legitimately be built either AP or AD depending on what you want to do.

I don't know how many more Tristanas and Ezreals we're going to see, though.

I don't think that's what people have in mind when they say they want "hybrid" champs, though. Hybrid generally refers to champs that build AD and AP simultaneously and scale off both.

Trist and Ez can be built AP, sure, but AP Trist/Ez are vastly inferior to their AD counterparts. I don't consider them hybrid at all.
On May 08 2013 13:00 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2013 12:57 wei2coolman wrote:
As much hate as akali gets for being op'd and snowbally as a champ, she was alright design wise as a hybrid champ.

If it weren't for Gunblade she'd be a 100% AP champ (just like Kayle would be a 100% AP champ if it weren't for Nashor's being made specifically just so she can buy it). Again, hybrid design revolving around making singular one-dimensional items that are completely worthless for any other champs.

Honestly I think Nashor's is 100% an AP item...


Clearly you should be going BC and then stack AP items on MF to take advantage of how it's easier to get higher numbers of AP than AD


Dont tempt me.
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
May 08 2013 04:56 GMT
#2189
I don't get it, I read the LoLWiki page concerning Elder Lizard, and it seems like despite what it says, almost every DoT will also apply the Lizard DoT as well.

Should I start building this on jungle Sej now?
Forever Young
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-08 05:00:59
May 08 2013 05:00 GMT
#2190
On May 08 2013 13:25 upperbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2013 11:50 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2013 11:17 upperbound wrote:
Now that riot has increased champ power levels and made health stacking the preferred strategy for getting tanky, can we please open up the design space for some more hybrid itemization?

Hybrid in the sense of AD/AP?

The thing is that AD/AP hybrids have more or less be come an obsolescent concept design-wise because the role of "mixed caster + sustained damage dealer" is already filled by the AD caster concept. It's easier to fill that design space with AD casters because hybrids have the fundamental item design issue that unless the items in question are absurdly overpowered they generally tend to be ONLY useful for those champs and are therefore quite one-dimensional.

I don't see why there can't be both. It would require adding some additional ratios to existing champs (I think there should be more scaling like Ezreal where spells can scale on AP, AD, or both) or replacing other ratios, but it would work. I think the point would be better ability to customize team damage and strategy, and allowing champs to fill different roles and play different styles.

For example, let's imagine Graves with added AP ratios on Q and R. I could legitimately see Graves being played as AD, AP or Hybrid. Varus could already play hybrid if he had item support. These things change nothing about these champs' ability to play in the AD role, but also add the option of a much different playstyle with a different power curve if there were more choices. I like choices. If Riot spent the next 6 months not adding a single new champ, and instead giving me ways to play many of the 113 champs in completely new ways, that would be a welcome investment from me (though admittedly this would never happen because this change would bring no revenue from current players).

I'm not sure Nashor's Tooth on Kayle illustrates a problem with hybrid damage, more a problem with having an AP ratio on an autoattack (Kayle is a pretty good hero when she can apply 40% of her AP 5 times per 4 seconds while being immune to damage). The problem is less pronounced on Teemo where you at least have a stacking dot instead of front loaded damage, but even AP Teemo saw action because of how strong this mechanic can be.

I will convince you to break your bonds from the current meta, Yango. And I'll write a story about it. It will be Yango Unchained.



[image loading]

I was bored, so have a bad photoshop.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 08 2013 05:03 GMT
#2191
That pic needs to be posted everytime Yango bans someone.
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 08 2013 05:51 GMT
#2192
Uhhg. Saint so bad:
Janna Tornadoes 6 minions, "just freeze the lane".
"How did we lose?" "They were all so low"

Hue
Freeeeeeedom
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
May 08 2013 05:52 GMT
#2193
Since Trundle just got his rework (and a slight buff before that) who is the champ that has gone the longest without a buff/nerf now?
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-08 05:53:57
May 08 2013 05:52 GMT
#2194
Your improvement shouldn't be result-oriented, especially not in a team game. What you should be doing is perfect your technique. The reason why people always complain about trolls and feeders is because they think that if you win then you did well. but ideally, you shouldn't care about winning or losing at all. The only thing you should be looking at is your own play. Once you embrace this, trolls/feeders/afkers don't matter anymore, because you know that if you improve and stop making mistakes, your ranking (that shouldn't even matter to you) will improve.

This I don't think fits many people here, but the problem players mentioned above also provide a very, very easy and satisfying way to externalize mistakes. You see someone doing much worse than you, you lose because of him, you play him, you tell yourself you played better and that you deserved to win that game. It's fairly difficult to think of your own mistakes once you're in that mindset.

Every time someone (usually teut) or I say this, I feel like I'm being redundant and that this has been said many times before, but I still see the same complains over and over. I guess wanting to vent frustrations is fine, and so is playing this game recreationally, that is to have fun (I don't know how to do this), but the same concepts still apply.
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
May 08 2013 06:08 GMT
#2195
any1 powerlvling on taiwan server at the moment?
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-08 06:23:09
May 08 2013 06:09 GMT
#2196
On May 08 2013 14:52 onlywonderboy wrote:
Since Trundle just got his rework (and a slight buff before that) who is the champ that has gone the longest without a buff/nerf now?


anivia, zilean and poppy are the three that I don't recall seeing in patch notes for a very, very long time.

EDIT: not counting bugfixes, Poppy and anivia are ancient in terms of not having been buffed/nerfed since about halfway through S1. Depending on whether you count QoL changes though, Poppy is either newer or older than anivia.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
May 08 2013 06:21 GMT
#2197
Just a bit of musing, what would be the overall effect of giving Nid her ult at level 1 like Elise and Jayce? Of course tweaking the base damages for the early levels, but still.
It's your boy Guzma!
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 08 2013 06:23 GMT
#2198
On May 08 2013 14:52 OutlaW- wrote:
Your improvement shouldn't be result-oriented, especially not in a team game. What you should be doing is perfect your technique. The reason why people always complain about trolls and feeders is because they think that if you win then you did well. but ideally, you shouldn't care about winning or losing at all. The only thing you should be looking at is your own play. Once you embrace this, trolls/feeders/afkers don't matter anymore, because you know that if you improve and stop making mistakes, your ranking (that shouldn't even matter to you) will improve.

This I don't think fits many people here, but the problem players mentioned above also provide a very, very easy and satisfying way to externalize mistakes. You see someone doing much worse than you, you lose because of him, you play him, you tell yourself you played better and that you deserved to win that game. It's fairly difficult to think of your own mistakes once you're in that mindset.

Every time someone (usually teut) or I say this, I feel like I'm being redundant and that this has been said many times before, but I still see the same complains over and over. I guess wanting to vent frustrations is fine, and so is playing this game recreationally, that is to have fun (I don't know how to do this), but the same concepts still apply.


Silly,

People aren't mad about trolls, they are mad about the inability to instantly punish trolls, especially champ select trolls (although trolls do present the problem that it is unsatisfying to lose with a troll on your team, AND unsatisfying to win against a troll). Lets say I troll you. You can Screenshot>Dodge>Report (which is much more lengthy of a process than people pretend, plus you get a generic response), or you can Play > Report. Both are incredibly unsatisfying.

A pertinent/accurate analogy is if you were the owner of a 7/11, and people would steal from you, and you know it, and you have a video camera system. But your options are: Walk away then call the police, or get in the car with them then call the police when they get home. But either way you don't know if they go to jail, and there is a significant chance that the judge/jury are only going to see your car ride with the perp if you choose option 2. By the way, if you choose option one you have to pay the government a random $1500 fine.


Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 08 2013 06:24 GMT
#2199
On May 08 2013 15:21 Requizen wrote:
Just a bit of musing, what would be the overall effect of giving Nid her ult at level 1 like Elise and Jayce? Of course tweaking the base damages for the early levels, but still.

Her lane phase would be unbelievably op'd; like more op'd than it currently is.

Pretty much you give her ability to control lane pressure/wave control pre-6; it'd be ridiculous.
liftlift > tsm
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
May 08 2013 06:31 GMT
#2200
On May 07 2013 22:32 upperbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 22:11 JonGalt wrote:
Can anyone recommend which game (1-5) of the EU LCS Finals between Fnatic and Gambit that I should watch? The recommended polls aren't in the OP. I can probably only watch one.

4, without a doubt.


Thanks. Trying to download it now.
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 189 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 419
RotterdaM 346
trigger 53
ProTech47
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 9978
Rain 3155
Calm 2653
Horang2 1166
Larva 1093
EffOrt 943
Soma 667
Mini 616
Stork 540
ZerO 429
[ Show more ]
BeSt 421
Snow 286
firebathero 284
hero 247
ggaemo 239
Rush 137
Sharp 131
Mong 114
Mind 100
Hyun 96
Light 89
Killer 88
Hm[arnc] 69
Shuttle 55
Pusan 53
soO 39
ToSsGirL 36
Terrorterran 25
Barracks 24
Movie 21
HiyA 16
GoRush 13
scan(afreeca) 13
Rock 12
ivOry 11
Sexy 9
Dota 2
Gorgc4183
singsing3102
qojqva1685
Dendi277
Counter-Strike
byalli501
markeloff236
Other Games
B2W.Neo1313
hiko671
allub311
Fuzer 163
QueenE125
Liquid`VortiX53
KnowMe31
ZerO(Twitch)16
Liquid`Ken10
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade680
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
9h 58m
The PondCast
18h 58m
OSC
19h 58m
Big Brain Bouts
3 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-19
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.