EPTIt's easy to say to focus lux, but the mechanical skill level here is high enough that a fed lux (so, having 7-10 stacks) can skirt around a teamfight so easily that it is incredibly difficult to crawl up from a snowballed advantage. Between the aoe for assists, and the lazer kills, the stacks keep on building up. I'm not saying lux with mejai's is anywhere near broken, but with players who hit their skillshots consistantly, mejai's is actually effective enough to be viable.
[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 110
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
It's easy to say to focus lux, but the mechanical skill level here is high enough that a fed lux (so, having 7-10 stacks) can skirt around a teamfight so easily that it is incredibly difficult to crawl up from a snowballed advantage. Between the aoe for assists, and the lazer kills, the stacks keep on building up. I'm not saying lux with mejai's is anywhere near broken, but with players who hit their skillshots consistantly, mejai's is actually effective enough to be viable. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:10 ticklishmusic wrote: I don't really understand why Leviathan was taken out of the game but Soulstealer and Occult were left. :/ Cuz Riot thinks getting more health doesn't improve your offensive capability to get "kills" and is some how "backwards logic". | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 08 2013 12:57 wei2coolman wrote: As much hate as akali gets for being op'd and snowbally as a champ, she was alright design wise as a hybrid champ. Akali isn't hybrid + she is so binary design-wise, so I must disagree. Plus Jax is a perfectly designed hybrid, only BOTRK is so strong and you only can build 1 offensive item on him until late and those are Triforce/Nashors. If you had a ranged Jax, it would be a real Hybrid, if you gave hybrids multiplicative scaling that is. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:12 wei2coolman wrote: Cuz Riot thinks getting more health doesn't improve your offensive capability to get "kills" and is some how "backwards logic". Leona with Leviathan was soooo fun though. Manmode in, get out with 10 hp. If you live the first time you all in like that, you basically will win each team fight after that. It doesn't make you do more damage, but it rewarded good tanks so much. If you played properly by soaking damage, zoning and eating up spells but not dying, you got incredibly strong. I think/ thought it was actually the most snowbally of snowball items tbh. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On May 08 2013 11:50 TheYango wrote: Hybrid in the sense of AD/AP? The thing is that AD/AP hybrids have more or less be come an obsolescent concept design-wise because the role of "mixed caster + sustained damage dealer" is already filled by the AD caster concept. It's easier to fill that design space with AD casters because hybrids have the fundamental item design issue that unless the items in question are absurdly overpowered they generally tend to be ONLY useful for those champs and are therefore quite one-dimensional. I don't see why there can't be both. It would require adding some additional ratios to existing champs (I think there should be more scaling like Ezreal where spells can scale on AP, AD, or both) or replacing other ratios, but it would work. I think the point would be better ability to customize team damage and strategy, and allowing champs to fill different roles and play different styles. For example, let's imagine Graves with added AP ratios on Q and R. I could legitimately see Graves being played as AD, AP or Hybrid. Varus could already play hybrid if he had item support. These things change nothing about these champs' ability to play in the AD role, but also add the option of a much different playstyle with a different power curve if there were more choices. I like choices. If Riot spent the next 6 months not adding a single new champ, and instead giving me ways to play many of the 113 champs in completely new ways, that would be a welcome investment from me (though admittedly this would never happen because this change would bring no revenue from current players). I'm not sure Nashor's Tooth on Kayle illustrates a problem with hybrid damage, more a problem with having an AP ratio on an autoattack (Kayle is a pretty good hero when she can apply 40% of her AP 5 times per 4 seconds while being immune to damage). The problem is less pronounced on Teemo where you at least have a stacking dot instead of front loaded damage, but even AP Teemo saw action because of how strong this mechanic can be. I will convince you to break your bonds from the current meta, Yango. And I'll write a story about it. It will be Yango Unchained. | ||
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:01 Ryuu314 wrote: I don't think that's what people have in mind when they say they want "hybrid" champs, though. Hybrid generally refers to champs that build AD and AP simultaneously and scale off both. Trist and Ez can be built AP, sure, but AP Trist/Ez are vastly inferior to their AD counterparts. I don't consider them hybrid at all. Honestly I think Nashor's is 100% an AP item... Clearly you should be going BC and then stack AP items on MF to take advantage of how it's easier to get higher numbers of AP than AD | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:44 Vanka wrote: Clearly you should be going BC and then stack AP items on MF to take advantage of how it's easier to get higher numbers of AP than AD Dont tempt me. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
Should I start building this on jungle Sej now? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:25 upperbound wrote: I don't see why there can't be both. It would require adding some additional ratios to existing champs (I think there should be more scaling like Ezreal where spells can scale on AP, AD, or both) or replacing other ratios, but it would work. I think the point would be better ability to customize team damage and strategy, and allowing champs to fill different roles and play different styles. For example, let's imagine Graves with added AP ratios on Q and R. I could legitimately see Graves being played as AD, AP or Hybrid. Varus could already play hybrid if he had item support. These things change nothing about these champs' ability to play in the AD role, but also add the option of a much different playstyle with a different power curve if there were more choices. I like choices. If Riot spent the next 6 months not adding a single new champ, and instead giving me ways to play many of the 113 champs in completely new ways, that would be a welcome investment from me (though admittedly this would never happen because this change would bring no revenue from current players). I'm not sure Nashor's Tooth on Kayle illustrates a problem with hybrid damage, more a problem with having an AP ratio on an autoattack (Kayle is a pretty good hero when she can apply 40% of her AP 5 times per 4 seconds while being immune to damage). The problem is less pronounced on Teemo where you at least have a stacking dot instead of front loaded damage, but even AP Teemo saw action because of how strong this mechanic can be. I will convince you to break your bonds from the current meta, Yango. And I'll write a story about it. It will be Yango Unchained. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j2w8mEu.png) I was bored, so have a bad photoshop. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Janna Tornadoes 6 minions, "just freeze the lane". "How did we lose?" "They were all so low" Hue | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
This I don't think fits many people here, but the problem players mentioned above also provide a very, very easy and satisfying way to externalize mistakes. You see someone doing much worse than you, you lose because of him, you play him, you tell yourself you played better and that you deserved to win that game. It's fairly difficult to think of your own mistakes once you're in that mindset. Every time someone (usually teut) or I say this, I feel like I'm being redundant and that this has been said many times before, but I still see the same complains over and over. I guess wanting to vent frustrations is fine, and so is playing this game recreationally, that is to have fun (I don't know how to do this), but the same concepts still apply. | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On May 08 2013 14:52 onlywonderboy wrote: Since Trundle just got his rework (and a slight buff before that) who is the champ that has gone the longest without a buff/nerf now? anivia, zilean and poppy are the three that I don't recall seeing in patch notes for a very, very long time. EDIT: not counting bugfixes, Poppy and anivia are ancient in terms of not having been buffed/nerfed since about halfway through S1. Depending on whether you count QoL changes though, Poppy is either newer or older than anivia. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 08 2013 14:52 OutlaW- wrote: Your improvement shouldn't be result-oriented, especially not in a team game. What you should be doing is perfect your technique. The reason why people always complain about trolls and feeders is because they think that if you win then you did well. but ideally, you shouldn't care about winning or losing at all. The only thing you should be looking at is your own play. Once you embrace this, trolls/feeders/afkers don't matter anymore, because you know that if you improve and stop making mistakes, your ranking (that shouldn't even matter to you) will improve. This I don't think fits many people here, but the problem players mentioned above also provide a very, very easy and satisfying way to externalize mistakes. You see someone doing much worse than you, you lose because of him, you play him, you tell yourself you played better and that you deserved to win that game. It's fairly difficult to think of your own mistakes once you're in that mindset. Every time someone (usually teut) or I say this, I feel like I'm being redundant and that this has been said many times before, but I still see the same complains over and over. I guess wanting to vent frustrations is fine, and so is playing this game recreationally, that is to have fun (I don't know how to do this), but the same concepts still apply. Silly, People aren't mad about trolls, they are mad about the inability to instantly punish trolls, especially champ select trolls (although trolls do present the problem that it is unsatisfying to lose with a troll on your team, AND unsatisfying to win against a troll). Lets say I troll you. You can Screenshot>Dodge>Report (which is much more lengthy of a process than people pretend, plus you get a generic response), or you can Play > Report. Both are incredibly unsatisfying. A pertinent/accurate analogy is if you were the owner of a 7/11, and people would steal from you, and you know it, and you have a video camera system. But your options are: Walk away then call the police, or get in the car with them then call the police when they get home. But either way you don't know if they go to jail, and there is a significant chance that the judge/jury are only going to see your car ride with the perp if you choose option 2. By the way, if you choose option one you have to pay the government a random $1500 fine. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 08 2013 15:21 Requizen wrote: Just a bit of musing, what would be the overall effect of giving Nid her ult at level 1 like Elise and Jayce? Of course tweaking the base damages for the early levels, but still. Her lane phase would be unbelievably op'd; like more op'd than it currently is. Pretty much you give her ability to control lane pressure/wave control pre-6; it'd be ridiculous. | ||
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Thanks. Trying to download it now. | ||
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