EPT[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 109
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Gahlo
United States35144 Posts
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 08 2013 11:17 upperbound wrote: Now that riot has increased champ power levels and made health stacking the preferred strategy for getting tanky, can we please open up the design space for some more hybrid itemization? Hybrid in the sense of AD/AP? The thing is that AD/AP hybrids have more or less be come an obsolescent concept design-wise because the role of "mixed caster + sustained damage dealer" is already filled by the AD caster concept. It's easier to fill that design space with AD casters because hybrids have the fundamental item design issue that unless the items in question are absurdly overpowered they generally tend to be ONLY useful for those champs and are therefore quite one-dimensional. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 08 2013 11:50 TheYango wrote: Hybrid in the sense of AD/AP? The thing is that AD/AP hybrids have more or less be come an obsolescent concept design-wise because the role of "mixed caster + sustained damage dealer" is already filled by the AD caster concept. It's easier to fill that design space with AD casters because hybrids have the fundamental item design issue that unless the items in question are absurdly overpowered they generally tend to be ONLY useful for those champs and are therefore quite one-dimensional. Better to have more kayle and jax than more zed and garen IMO. Jax dammit phone ! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But admittedly hard to balance. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
I don't even consider Kayle hybrid anymore when she's played mid. People build her all AP anyways with 0 AD. Just because she needs to autoattack to proc her E doesn't really make her mixed damage imo. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
If hybrids can do that more love to them. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On May 08 2013 12:22 beefhamburger wrote: I find hybrid champs pretty terrible damage-wise any time after mid game. Once tanks/bruisers and even carries get MR, your damage is neutered heavily because chances are you only build 1 pen item (either apen or mpen). I don't even consider Kayle hybrid anymore when she's played mid. People build her all AP anyways with 0 AD. Just because she needs to autoattack to proc her E doesn't really make her mixed damage imo. I think people consider AS an AD scaling ability so they still consider it hybrid. But yeah, Kayle's these days generally don't build any AD. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On May 08 2013 12:50 ticklishmusic wrote: WE NEED HYBRID PEN ITEMS Just one. An item with % MPen and ArPen. Maybe 25% each at a higher cost than LW or VS? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I don't know how many more Tristanas and Ezreals we're going to see, though. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Because either they have amazing scaling with both AD+AP, in which case they're either OP or they will prefer building one stat over the other because it becomes more cost-efficient that way, or they have mediocre individual AD/AP scaling and require specific hybrid items, in which case the items will be OP. The only truly hybrid champs in LoL was Kayle. Kayle as hybrid was absolutely OP and even then Kayle preferred to just itemize AD. Now Kayle prefers to itemize AP. I guess you could call Jax a "hybrid" champ, but tbh he was always just a bruiser that did magic damage. You never really itemized offensive items on him outside of Triforce and old Gunblade. Even then, "hybrid" builds were only really viable because Hextech Gunblade was absolutely bonkers, which led to basically everyone buying it once people realized how ridiculously efficient it was. Then they nerfed it super hard. On May 08 2013 12:57 wei2coolman wrote: As much hate as akali gets for being op'd and snowbally as a champ, she was alright design wise as a hybrid champ. Except Akali's not hybrid at all. She's an AP burst caster. The only "hybrid" item you get on her is Gunblade and that's really only cause of the spellvamp and the slow it provides. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 08 2013 12:57 wei2coolman wrote: As much hate as akali gets for being op'd and snowbally as a champ, she was alright design wise as a hybrid champ. If it weren't for Gunblade she'd be a 100% AP champ (just like Kayle would be a 100% AP champ if it weren't for Nashor's being made specifically just so she can buy it). Again, hybrid design revolving around making singular one-dimensional items that are completely worthless for any other champs. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On May 08 2013 12:57 Amarok wrote: Just one. An item with % MPen and ArPen. Maybe 25% each at a higher cost than LW or VS? Maybe something that builds out of Bruta + Haunting Guise, gives AD/AP, like 10 flat pen for each and a percentage based on your bonus or total AP/AD. Would obviously be a lategame, and lets you spec AP/AD midgame. Stanley with the Jayce, holy. http://gpl.garena.com/video_detail.php?video_id=565 Jungle items OP, buy Spirit item on everything but the support ftw | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 08 2013 12:58 Ketara wrote: I think what's cooler than a hybrid champ really is a champ that can legitimately be built either AP or AD depending on what you want to do. I don't know how many more Tristanas and Ezreals we're going to see, though. I don't think that's what people have in mind when they say they want "hybrid" champs, though. Hybrid generally refers to champs that build AD and AP simultaneously and scale off both. Trist and Ez can be built AP, sure, but AP Trist/Ez are vastly inferior to their AD counterparts. I don't consider them hybrid at all. On May 08 2013 13:00 TheYango wrote: If it weren't for Gunblade she'd be a 100% AP champ (just like Kayle would be a 100% AP champ if it weren't for Nashor's being made specifically just so she can buy it). Again, hybrid design revolving around making singular one-dimensional items that are completely worthless for any other champs. Honestly I think Nashor's is 100% an AP item... | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:00 TheYango wrote: If it weren't for Gunblade she'd be a 100% AP champ (just like Kayle would be a 100% AP champ if it weren't for Nashor's being made specifically just so she can buy it). Again, hybrid design revolving around making singular one-dimensional items that are completely worthless for any other champs. Well remember season one chu8's maokai build? Different type of hybrid, had triforce, abyssal sceptre, roa, etc. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On May 08 2013 13:00 TheYango wrote: If it weren't for Gunblade she'd be a 100% AP champ (just like Kayle would be a 100% AP champ if it weren't for Nashor's being made specifically just so she can buy it). Again, hybrid design revolving around making singular one-dimensional items that are completely worthless for any other champs. The better way to do a Hybrid champ is probably something like Yorick where you have like 3 skills that scale off of AD but do magic damage. Then they don't need special just for them items. | ||
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