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The amount of people shitting on Hotshot is so... DARGH! It's like they're not even watching the games and only look at scores (or alternatively, if he ends up being fed) just say: "Oh, Scrubshot is still shit, trololol"... CLG aren't following the meta but rather stick to their guns and in the event, they should definitely go with what they know and can pull off.
Great interview, as always with the Grilled series, thank you very much
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On April 09 2013 02:55 Azelja wrote:The amount of people shitting on Hotshot is so... DARGH! It's like they're not even watching the games and only look at scores (or alternatively, if he ends up being fed) just say: "Oh, Scrubshot is still shit, trololol"... CLG aren't following the meta but rather stick to their guns and in the event, they should definitely go with what they know and can pull off. Great interview, as always with the Grilled series, thank you very much 
Hotshot's champion pool has pigeonholed CLG into specific strategies for literally years. No one else in the world plays the way that CLG does and the only reason they play that way is because Hotshot has the worst champion pool of any pro player. I will give him props that he's been trying new champions up top and attempting to expand his champion pool recently. That's good. I just don't know if he has the time to learn a bunch of new top laners.
I mean the absolute best that Hotshot has ever been was when Jax was bonkers OP and Hotshot's champion pool consisted of Jax, Cho'Gath, Galio, and Nidalee. But teams would ban out at least three of those and then they'd just know what Hotshot was going to play. Considering Hotshot's experience the only top laners in NA LCS who should even be able to contest with him are Voyboy and maybe Dyrus but we routinely see him lose lane to people who have been playing top lane for a few months.
Hotshot's strengths are that he can 1v2 better than a lot of other top laners can and that he's pretty good at drawing threat/playing tanks. But the former is something most LCS top laners are getting better at/just as good as him at. The latter is honestly as much of a strength as it is a weakness since those are literally the only champions he's reliable on (which gets back to the fact that he pigeonholes CLG to specific strategies due to his champion pool).
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Why does HSGG keep comparing himself to Maknoon? Is this last summer? Maknoon isn't even top 3 anymore, honestly I don't think hes close.
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United States37500 Posts
On April 09 2013 04:17 cLutZ wrote: Why does HSGG keep comparing himself to Maknoon? Is this last summer? Maknoon isn't even top 3 anymore, honestly I don't think hes close. wat? Who's your top 3 for Top?
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Shy, Reapered, Caomei, Stanley.
Plus some EU tops that have caught him like Soaz and Darien (although the Russian hivemind makes that impossible to determine).
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On April 09 2013 02:55 Azelja wrote:The amount of people shitting on Hotshot is so... DARGH! It's like they're not even watching the games and only look at scores (or alternatively, if he ends up being fed) just say: "Oh, Scrubshot is still shit, trololol"... CLG aren't following the meta but rather stick to their guns and in the event, they should definitely go with what they know and can pull off. Great interview, as always with the Grilled series, thank you very much 
To be fair, Chauster says that they play the way they do just because their current player base isn't strong enough to run four threats. You have hotshot who just plays a very passive style that's only really suited to tanks. You have l1nk who's just new and inexperienced, but he has potential I think. Chauster's jungling is not the greatest in the world as he sacrifices a lot of farm to try to make an impact on the lanes (which sometimes never happens).
I think hotshot's just another reason why CLG is pigeonholed into its current playstyle.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 09 2013 04:46 cLutZ wrote: Shy, Reapered, Caomei, Stanley.
Plus some EU tops that have caught him like Soaz and Darien (although the Russian hivemind makes that impossible to determine). Stanley's 2v1 is suspect. Maknoon is still really good, I'd say the fact he might not be top three is a testament to how crazy good the Eastern Top Laners are.
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United States37500 Posts
On April 09 2013 04:46 cLutZ wrote: Shy, Reapered, Caomei, Stanley.
Plus some EU tops that have caught him like Soaz and Darien (although the Russian hivemind makes that impossible to determine).
I only think Shy is on par from that list. As much as I like sOAZ and Darien in EU LCS, I don't think they're quite there yet either.
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On April 09 2013 05:54 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 04:46 cLutZ wrote: Shy, Reapered, Caomei, Stanley.
Plus some EU tops that have caught him like Soaz and Darien (although the Russian hivemind makes that impossible to determine). I only think Shy is on par from that list. As much as I like sOAZ and Darien in EU LCS, I don't think they're quite there yet either.
Maybe I need to watch more OGN, but in the sporadic times I see Sword play, he tends towards Makn00b quite a bit. Its entirely possible to chalk that up to sample size I guess though.
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United States37500 Posts
On April 09 2013 06:00 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:54 NeoIllusions wrote:On April 09 2013 04:46 cLutZ wrote: Shy, Reapered, Caomei, Stanley.
Plus some EU tops that have caught him like Soaz and Darien (although the Russian hivemind makes that impossible to determine). I only think Shy is on par from that list. As much as I like sOAZ and Darien in EU LCS, I don't think they're quite there yet either. Maybe I need to watch more OGN, but in the sporadic times I see Sword play, he tends towards Makn00b quite a bit. Its entirely possible to chalk that up to sample size I guess though.
You also need to watch more Expession and Pdd (yanger concurs). Reapered is pretty damn meh for Korean standards. Stanley (and TPA) haven't adapted to S3 that well. Caomei is decent, but good for WE.
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On April 09 2013 01:43 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Hotshot is just rationalizing his inability to play. He says he can keep down the enemy top, but that is entirely irrelevant and to be expected. The difference is that someone on a team has to pull more then their own weight. Hotshot stopping the enemy top still makes the game a 4v4, because it takes hotshot to do it. Proportionally the game is no different, you could just remove top lane and the game would be no different. Going even against your opponent isn't good play, it is the minimum required for anyone. This is what hotshot doesn't understand. Him going even in lane is literally the minimum acceptable level of play, yet he wants to be praised for doing this. Different lanes shutting down things is very good, a jungler removing an adc and support from the game is huge.
first of all it is inherently false to say that "going even is the minimum requirement". This can only be true if everyone is going even top lane all the time which we know is false. So going even is and will allways be the average. Hsggs strategy is going even in gold income while playing teamfight oriented tanks, which he sais are more usefull than an averagely farmed assassin/bruiser. What Hsgg does like noone else is forcing his lane into a passive farm lane even 2on1. He is in a sense reliable, you can just leave him there and not much will happen, while you can count on him to teamfight well later on and hit his CC.
So yes going even isnt "good play" its average. but its not bad either and its a part of his plan. It was he is good at and maybe better than others. He has the same team oriented mindset like all the consistent and smart players in the scene: the team wins the game in the end. It has been said by all clg members time and time again that communication is the weakness of them and not a specific lane, even if hsgg and most of his teammates agree that he isnt a carry but a very reliable tank and top laner with a unique but teamoriented style.
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What I got out of that interview is that Hotshot thinks he's both good and underrated. And so he'll keep the same attitude while CLG continues tanking in the rankings.
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I mean...this is against the NA scene so hotshot going even is fine because he's not facing a lot of good players anyway. But when he played against like...Koreans or even some European tops he just gets consistently outfarmed. He might not die solo, but he'll be super underleveled and underfarmed.
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Thank you for this interview, again.
On topic, I don't particularly like HSGG but I think people are really harsh with him. He does get caughtshotGG sometimes, and to me that is his main weakness. He needs to be more consistent and focused. But people tend to ignore his strengths: utility tanks, and kiting/zoning in team fights. CLG tend to sacrifice toplane anyway, but he still manages to do ok and he's actually been pretty good in TFs recently. CLG's problem is communication, as multiple players have stated. If we look at the individual "skills", chauster jungle (compared to his support), aphromoo mixed performance, and doublelift map awareness/global decision making are probably as problematic if not worse than Hotshot toplane.
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The problem with this interview is that it reeks of "good enough" without any sort of drive to improve. Yes, he was honest, but that's what in my opinion makes it even worse. It's sort of a loser's attitude that he has.
Hotshot's lasthitting really isn't that great considering that strategy and actually I've seen him straight up lose plenty of lanes.
Also, teamplay and communication and such really aren't that difficult, and not specific to this game. You just need to follow orders unconditionally. In essence it's very simple. I'm thinking a reason Gambit does it so well is because military service is mandatory in Russia and hence they're going to know how to just follow orders without thinking too much. For everyone but the leader this is the way to go and isn't really difficult at all, though going through military basic training might help. HSGG's attitude probably won't allow it though. A coach also would be good for objective analysis, I'm not sure what CLGs situation there is.
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On April 09 2013 08:29 Shikyo wrote: The problem with this interview is that it reeks of "good enough" without any sort of drive to improve. Yes, he was honest, but that's what in my opinion makes it even worse. It's sort of a loser's attitude that he has.
Hotshot's lasthitting really isn't that great considering that strategy and actually I've seen him straight up lose plenty of lanes.
Also, teamplay and communication and such really aren't that difficult, and not specific to this game. You just need to follow orders unconditionally. In essence it's very simple. I'm thinking a reason Gambit does it so well is because military service is mandatory in Russia and hence they're going to know how to just follow orders without thinking too much. For everyone but the leader this is the way to go and isn't really difficult at all, though going through military basic training might help. HSGG's attitude probably won't allow it though. A coach also would be good for objective analysis, I'm not sure what CLGs situation there is.
Would explain Korean teamfighting too, haha.
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On April 09 2013 06:07 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 01:43 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Hotshot is just rationalizing his inability to play. He says he can keep down the enemy top, but that is entirely irrelevant and to be expected. The difference is that someone on a team has to pull more then their own weight. Hotshot stopping the enemy top still makes the game a 4v4, because it takes hotshot to do it. Proportionally the game is no different, you could just remove top lane and the game would be no different. Going even against your opponent isn't good play, it is the minimum required for anyone. This is what hotshot doesn't understand. Him going even in lane is literally the minimum acceptable level of play, yet he wants to be praised for doing this. Different lanes shutting down things is very good, a jungler removing an adc and support from the game is huge. first of all it is inherently false to say that "going even is the minimum requirement". This can only be true if everyone is going even top lane all the time which we know is false. So going even is and will allways be the average. Hsggs strategy is going even in gold income while playing teamfight oriented tanks, which he sais are more usefull than an averagely farmed assassin/bruiser. What Hsgg does like noone else is forcing his lane into a passive farm lane even 2on1. He is in a sense reliable, you can just leave him there and not much will happen, while you can count on him to teamfight well later on and hit his CC. So yes going even isnt "good play" its average. but its not bad either and its a part of his plan. It was he is good at and maybe better than others. He has the same team oriented mindset like all the consistent and smart players in the scene: the team wins the game in the end. It has been said by all clg members time and time again that communication is the weakness of them and not a specific lane, even if hsgg and most of his teammates agree that he isnt a carry but a very reliable tank and top laner with a unique but teamoriented style.
I am by no means a HSGG hater (although I think both he and Regi are running their teams ineffectively compared to how a real manager would), but he isn't reliable to go even, so he basically fails at his modest goal.
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That's correct. Hotshot has no ambition of winning a lane, his best hope is to go even or lose by a small amount and try to make it up in teamfights later. And he fails often enough to be a liability because there's no upside. He either gets carried or loses.
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On April 09 2013 10:58 NovaTheFeared wrote: That's correct. Hotshot has no ambition of winning a lane, his best hope is to go even or lose by a small amount and try to make it up in teamfights later. And he fails often enough to be a liability because there's no upside. He either gets carried or loses.
yes exactly but that isnt inherently a bad playstile. I just watched a clg vs crs scrim game last night and he firstpicked shen while voy took jayce after that. HS got about 15+ cs behind entering the midgame but he and chau did a smart bait kill on voy. Voy obviously couldnt keep up with hsggs mobility and teamfight presence during the mid-late. and supported his strong bottom and midlanes with ults.
This is what clg does regularly. They would firstpick top lane because they know hsgg is very good at losing a lane, no matter if counterpicked or 1on2 he would not lose hard and still be very freaking useful. He gives his team the option to strategically counterpick all the other lanes and build a strong synergy around 2 carries.
I'am not even a fan of clg or anything but id say it is kind of ignorant to shit on hsgg. From what I know the thing that holds clg back the most is communication and chauster not stepping up as a leader enough despite his team wanting him to do that.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 09 2013 16:36 clickrush wrote: yes exactly but that isnt inherently a bad playstile. I just watched a clg vs crs scrim game last night and he firstpicked shen while voy took jayce after that. HS got about 15+ cs behind entering the midgame but he and chau did a smart bait kill on voy. Voy obviously couldnt keep up with hsggs mobility and teamfight presence during the mid-late. and supported his strong bottom and midlanes with ults.
It's not a bad playstyle when it comes down to it, but it IS a bad attitude to have toward the game.
It is fine to accept the reality that you aren't that good in real games and play/draft around that fact. It is NOT fine to be ok with that when you are practicing. Your goal in practice should be to improve at every aspect of the game. Not become complacent over one aspect of the game because "it's not important for my playstyle".
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