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On March 28 2013 23:47 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:41 Requizen wrote:On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote:
Why would SV not be useful on Zac? The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view. wasn't someone complaining not too long ago that champs these days are too easy and straightforward to play?
Counter-intuitive <> Complex. Just because a champ is hard to play doesn't make it good. His passive/resource system is, in my eyes, pretty poor design. On one hand, he wants to jump in, tank, and stick to targets. On the other, he wants to run around and pick up blobs to, you know, not die and kill himself. There are a handful of solutions to the problem, and I'm sure Riot will figure out one that they like, but as of right now it seems bad.
To give an example, it would be similar to a squishy burst mage like Xerath or Brand having to be in melee range to have their abilities' CD begin. Sure you could make it work, but it would be rather bad.
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On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Depends who the ad-s are.If it's zed/kog/varus for example mr wouldn't be useless.
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Why the random Rumble nerf? That seems like it'll hurt him pretty bad- suddenly one of your spells has no burst.
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On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
This sounds like a rare exception that you would take into account. In that situation, yes, you would buy health+armor items and proceed to win the game...
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Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
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On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote:
Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 28 2013 23:56 Crownlol wrote:
Why the random Rumble nerf? That seems like it'll hurt him pretty bad- suddenly one of your spells has no burst.
Not really that random, Rumble had the highest soloq winrate and has been seen a ton in pro play recently. Equalizer was the core of this problem as it probably bursted a little too hard and made his 1v1 and even his 1v2 potential really strong. I don't like removing the upfront damage completely, could have been turned down a bit. Maybe just an increaseing the CD would have been enough, it is really short.
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On March 28 2013 23:57 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. This sounds like a rare exception that you would take into account. In that situation, yes, you would buy health+armor items and proceed to win the game...
Another important factor is that cost effectivity is not an absolute number, it needs to be viewed in comparison to other items. A lot of items are at more than 100% Gold efficiency, because gold efficiency is usually calculated in comparison to base items, and finished items tend to be better than those. So just breaking 100% gold efficiency does not necessarily make an item good, you need to be more gold efficient than other options for that.
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in the one pbe game i played i went something like SV, sorc shoes, randuins, liandrys, the jungling spellvamp item and dcap. not in that order though but he felt really strong but then again... this is pbe lol.
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According to the patch notes, rumble's ult DoT damage starts at 0s instead of 0.5s, which means that the burst isn't completely removed, just lessened (though quite significantly)
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On March 29 2013 00:04 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:57 mordek wrote:On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. This sounds like a rare exception that you would take into account. In that situation, yes, you would buy health+armor items and proceed to win the game... Another important factor is that cost effectivity is not an absolute number, it needs to be viewed in comparison to other items. A lot of items are at more than 100% Gold efficiency, because gold efficiency is usually calculated in comparison to base items, and finished items tend to be better than those. So just breaking 100% gold efficiency does not necessarily make an item good, you need to be more gold efficient than other options for that.
I'd agree and it's good to bring that up. However, his resource system revolves around health so except for the all AD team that makes MR not worth I can't see when SV is not core on Zac.
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On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
Regarding fortify, I thought I remembered Riot saying they didn't like how it promoted passivity but it could also have been removed because no one used it.
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On March 29 2013 00:02 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote:
Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs. But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team. I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
*I have never actually played Zac
On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff). It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
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CDR boots, SV, Gauntlet and Llandry's Torment on Zac imo <.<
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On March 28 2013 23:47 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 23:41 Requizen wrote:On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote:
Why would SV not be useful on Zac? The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view. wasn't someone complaining not too long ago that champs these days are too easy and straightforward to play?
Yeah but this is different, the blobs shouldnt be random and difficult and frustrating to utilize?
unrelated: is "thereisnourflevel" causing any issues for anyone else? I get an error message with amumu in the background
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Mannnnn I gotta wait a week for them to reduce dat Zac price.
Req I definitely see where you're coming from on dem blobs, we'll see how it actually translates into real games.
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On March 29 2013 00:27 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 00:02 Requizen wrote:On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote:
Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs. But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team. I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs. True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.* *I have never actually played Zac Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff). It just has 0 effectiveness. We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
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On March 28 2013 11:38 Parnage wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 11:32 overt wrote:On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote:
Turrets buffed by 10%.
I'm out of here.
Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard...
I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified? No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions. Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Agree and agreed with Riot's turret buff. These nerfed S3 turrets have taken a lot of the positioning out of the game. Too easy to just mob a lane and push down the turret in one dive. Turret diving should be a risk, and right now it's too much reward for too little risk.
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On March 29 2013 00:48 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 00:27 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 29 2013 00:02 Requizen wrote:On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote:
Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs. But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team. I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs. True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.* *I have never actually played Zac On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote:
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient."
Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective. People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective. its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team. mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff). It just has 0 effectiveness. We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats CALCULUS HOMEWORK Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
Seems like a problem better solved with simplex, or some other optimizations (I've always been interested in looking into something league related, but anyhow...).
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EPT
