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On February 21 2013 16:06 Seuss wrote:
I'm wondering if Riot has some data or something which leads them to believe that failing to reactively nerf this stuff will lead to a loss of players and potential revenue. Otherwise I don't see any logical reason for them to be this reactionary.
Lolking has an almost 56% winrate for Trynd now, that's pretty damn high. Maybe they just didn't like an infinite sustain split pusher that has no mana? Seems logical.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:56 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 15:32 LaNague wrote:
i liked ap trynd, so many people played him that usually dont lane top lane. Easy wins :D
But now trynd is kinda screwed in laning phase, poor guy needs another remake. They should just revert him to his old self, including autoattack animation. Well the good news is you can start Hp5 Quints + 2 Rejuventation Beads and have roughly 70% of the effective Hp5 of a current AP setup (39.92 Hp5 versus 55.38 Hp5). The bad news is that's still a full 15.46 Hp5 less, and you do 50 less damage on your Spin. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 15:55 TheYango wrote:Riot totally has enough data to pass judgment on AP Tryndamere. Less than a week of widespread popularity is definitely enough time for the community to have exhausted all options and counters.
He was definitely known for more than a week, EmailSupport180 has like 100+ games on AP Tryndamere on EUW and he's sometimes banned if you know you are playing against him (just like you would ban Shaco against Perfects or Poppy against su4k). No idea why he became kinda popular just now though. Did some famous streamers play him?
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On February 21 2013 16:21 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 15:56 Seuss wrote:On February 21 2013 15:32 LaNague wrote:
i liked ap trynd, so many people played him that usually dont lane top lane. Easy wins :D
But now trynd is kinda screwed in laning phase, poor guy needs another remake. They should just revert him to his old self, including autoattack animation. Well the good news is you can start Hp5 Quints + 2 Rejuventation Beads and have roughly 70% of the effective Hp5 of a current AP setup (39.92 Hp5 versus 55.38 Hp5). The bad news is that's still a full 15.46 Hp5 less, and you do 50 less damage on your Spin. On February 21 2013 15:55 TheYango wrote:Riot totally has enough data to pass judgment on AP Tryndamere. Less than a week of widespread popularity is definitely enough time for the community to have exhausted all options and counters. He was definitely known for more than a week, EmailSupport180 has like 100+ games on AP Tryndamere on EUW and he's sometimes banned if you know you are playing against him (just like you would ban Shaco against Perfects or Poppy against su4k). No idea why he became kinda popular just now though. Did some famous streamers play him?
Snoopeh lost a game to an AP Tryndamere.
It's not really enough for one player to have known about it a while. One player is an anomaly, and doesn't give the community the opportunity to digest and respond. It's only when it catches on with the playerbase as a whole that it really gets put through its paces and solid conclusions can be drawn regarding its balance.
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AP Trynd is probably being nerfed for the same reason that AP teemo was nerfed when S3 items were introduced and Darius is being nerfed: Unfun, and inherently unbalancable at all levels of play.
Plenty of champs have been left fairly nonviable for long periods in 5v5s because of unfun: Shaco, Eve (and see what happened when she was made viable), Trynd, Yi, Morde, and maybe a few others. Unfun is really just 2 things (maybe 1 or both): A binary faceroll (aka, Morde starts pushing easily and slaughters your AD carry, sometimes, but sometimes does nothing, or trynd spins in, and kills all before ult ends, or doesn't); and/or frustrating confusion (aka shaco counterjungle, eve roam, trynd ult).
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On February 21 2013 16:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
There is also the possibility that they knew about this internally and were waiting for it to actually catch on so they could nerf it and have it not seem completely out of the blue.
Yeah, I'm sure...
And I'm sure they knew AP rengar would be a thing they needed to nerf when they released him with a 1.0 ap ratio on w, but they just wanted to wait for someone to complain so they could build PR. Brilliant!
Or maybe they are just like blizzard is nowadays and just nerf everything into oblivion and always go in the opposite direction of their "goals."
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I don't think Riot is trying to totally destroy it though. A big part of the problem is that he's able to sustain so well while remaining elusive, meaning he can attract far more attention than one player should and survive making counterplay extremely difficult and the champ seem obnoxious overall. Isn't he going to heal close to the same amount with a full fury bar anyway? So he'll just need to ward and have basic map awareness to splitpush now.
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Saw this guy playing AP Trynd on Chaox's stream (account: All I do is win). Was curious if he was a long time high elo player or someone riding the AP Trynd wave, think I found out.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/A1vLq6P.png)
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On February 21 2013 16:41 Diamond wrote:Saw this guy playing AP Trynd on Chaox's stream (account: All I do is win). Was curious if he was a long time high elo player or someone riding the AP Trynd wave, think I found out.
IIRC, he's one of the people that started the whole AP trynd craze.
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He's not riding the wave, he just made a big splash
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On February 21 2013 16:45 Flakes wrote:
He's not riding the wave, he just made a big splash
Either way, gaining about 1k elo in a week is pretty insane.
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On February 21 2013 16:47 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:45 Flakes wrote:
He's not riding the wave, he just made a big splash Either way, gaining about 1k elo in a week is pretty insane.
That's because his old account was banned. IIRC his main "QualityPlayer" was diamond.
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Maybe he made a new account? I dunno, 1k elo in a week is something that nags at me, especially since the champion you use is not what separates 1k elo from 2k elo
Edit: Person above me clarified. Thanks.
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On February 21 2013 15:55 TheYango wrote:Riot totally has enough data to pass judgment on AP Tryndamere.
Yea it was definitely a reactionary nerf. Riot at its best.
On February 21 2013 16:33 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
There is also the possibility that they knew about this internally and were waiting for it to actually catch on so they could nerf it and have it not seem completely out of the blue. Yeah, I'm sure... And I'm sure they knew AP rengar would be a thing they needed to nerf when they released him with a 1.0 ap ratio on w, but they just wanted to wait for someone to complain so they could build PR. Brilliant! Or maybe they are just like blizzard is nowadays and just nerf everything into oblivion and always go in the opposite direction of their "goals."
To provide another example, Riot knew about S3 Teemo and decided to nerf him before too many major abuses took place.
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I was just trying to give Smash the benefit of the doubt dudes.
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Iunno man... every single ap tryn i've seen so far has failed horribly -.-
I dont see how AP Tryn is stronger/more annoying than say...AP Nid.
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United States23745 Posts
Probably don't know what to actually do, did they try to fight people or just split push for days and not give a fuck about anyone trying to kill them?
Edit: Just even more absurd sustain/escape/survival than Nid.
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On February 21 2013 17:24 Ryuu314 wrote:
Iunno man... every single ap tryn i've seen so far has failed horribly -.-
I dont see how AP Tryn is stronger/more annoying than say...AP Nid.
Imagine if Nid needed no mana and her heal's AP ratio is over double, now add in massive chances for crit.
I dont care about Ap trynd, I have yet to even see one, but just playing some devil's advocate here as I am very bored tonight!
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On February 21 2013 17:25 onlywonderboy wrote:
Probably don't know what to actually do, did they try to fight people or just split push for days and not give a fuck about anyone trying to kill them?
Edit: Just even more absurd sustain/escape/survival than Nid.
Seen people do both. They suck regardless w/e they do.
I mean, sure I get that these people probably dont know wtf they're doing but honestly, if it's uncatchable, unkillable, infinite sustain splitpushers there's plenty of candidates for that.
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On February 21 2013 17:28 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 17:25 onlywonderboy wrote:
Probably don't know what to actually do, did they try to fight people or just split push for days and not give a fuck about anyone trying to kill them?
Edit: Just even more absurd sustain/escape/survival than Nid. Seen people do both. They suck regardless w/e they do. I mean, sure I get that these people probably dont know wtf they're doing but honestly, if it's uncatchable, unkillable, infinite sustain splitpushers there's plenty of candidates for that.
Most of those actually have to survive lane phase to do that though. AP Trynd literally doesn't have to leave lane (I've banked up to 3k gold every game before having to b), and on top of that you can even die a couple of times. Once their top leaves lane, it's split push paradise and unless they have ignite or some heal reduction GL killing you.
Tbh I would've liked a bit more time to practice a build to play against it or have to think outside the box, but I'm not going to complain about it being gimped 
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On February 21 2013 18:19 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 17:28 Ryuu314 wrote:On February 21 2013 17:25 onlywonderboy wrote:
Probably don't know what to actually do, did they try to fight people or just split push for days and not give a fuck about anyone trying to kill them?
Edit: Just even more absurd sustain/escape/survival than Nid. Seen people do both. They suck regardless w/e they do. I mean, sure I get that these people probably dont know wtf they're doing but honestly, if it's uncatchable, unkillable, infinite sustain splitpushers there's plenty of candidates for that. Most of those actually have to survive lane phase to do that though. AP Trynd literally doesn't have to leave lane (I've banked up to 3k gold every game before having to b), and on top of that you can even die a couple of times. Once their top leaves lane, it's split push paradise and unless they have ignite or some heal reduction GL killing you. Tbh I would've liked a bit more time to practice a build to play against it or have to think outside the box, but I'm not going to complain about it being gimped
When I see Trynd on EUW it's usually AP top by now so I roll whatever champ can instagib him with enough farm. Enter Veigar, whatever the fuck the mid matchup.
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EPT
