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On February 16 2013 02:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 01:47 BlueSpace wrote:
As a second item it will only be effective if the enemy team picks up a lot of health. I don't know how you're drawing this conclusion. The breakeven without any crit is at 2-2.5k HP. The breakeven with IE and high crit is 4k+ HP. 2k HP midgame is far more common than 4k+ HP lategame, because by lategame people try to round out their defensive stats. It's rare to see someone actually break the 5k HP mark. But 2-2.5k HP early is far more frequent. I'd say its more common for BotRK to be worthwhile at the point of 2 damage items than it is to be at 4 damage items.
So I'm building my second mayor item, which means that if things are about even, top/mid will have also completed their second mayor item. Lets assume they went defensive and build sunfire and warmogs. That gives them +1450 health. Lets consider a hero who would actually builds that like Shen at lvl.10 with 1278 health which lands us at around 2.8k health. So what I'm trying to say is that by the time you buy that, most of the time only a top laner with two defensive items will sit at that type of health. So I'm not seeing that many people running around at 2.5k health by the time you complete your second big item. You might be right though that 4.5k late is not that more likely... which makes BotrK a bad item as you initally pointed out 
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United States47024 Posts
Well if the buff goes through, BotRK is breakeven on stats even if you ignore the passive entirely.
The point still stands that the proc is more likely to be useful early than late, because it's more likely for it to get outscaled by crit than for enemies to keep buying health to that absurd level.
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Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 16 2013 02:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake.
It was, though we're working with the assumption that damage is taken at a constant, continuous rate (which as mentioned before, is not an accurate assumption, as teamfight damage is typically heavily frontloaded).
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On February 16 2013 02:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake.
Harlem Shake needs to be on Zed. He starts dancing, and then the beat drops and he summons 30 shadows that are just getting crazy around him.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 16 2013 02:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake.
There's no real defined dance though, mostly just people flailing around in random costumes.
On February 16 2013 02:35 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 02:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake. Harlem Shake needs to be on Zed. He starts dancing, and then the beat drops and he summons 30 shadows that are just getting crazy around him.
This x1000
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On February 16 2013 02:31 TheYango wrote:
Well if the buff goes through, BotRK is breakeven on stats even if you ignore the passive entirely.
The point still stands that the proc is more likely to be useful early than late, because it's more likely for it to get outscaled by crit than for enemies to keep buying health to that absurd level.
Sorry, but I don't really see how you can get 2.5k health on most champions by the time they hit their second item. I made an example for one of the most defensive top-lane scenarios. Having late-game bruisers with defensive items like randuin, sunfire, warmogs, ancient Golem and 2.2k base health is far more likely in my opinion (not all of them but a combination of three of them). There are several bruisers that will breach 4.5k health like Olaf/Shen which are quite popular picks. In these situations BotrK is actually an option in my opinion. I don't really see the midgame scenario you're talking about.
Edit: And again to be clear on that. I'm purely considering it as a replacement for a BT.
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England2675 Posts
So Riot finally finished the alphabet. Good job guys.
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On February 16 2013 02:39 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 02:31 TheYango wrote:
Well if the buff goes through, BotRK is breakeven on stats even if you ignore the passive entirely.
The point still stands that the proc is more likely to be useful early than late, because it's more likely for it to get outscaled by crit than for enemies to keep buying health to that absurd level. Sorry, but I don't really see how you can get 2.5k health on most champions by the time they hit their second item. I made an example for one of the most defensive top-lane scenarios. Having late-game bruisers with defensive items like randuin, sunfire, warmogs, ancient Golem and 2.2k base health is far more likely in my opinion (not all of them but a combination of three of them). There are several bruisers that will breach 4.5k health like Olaf/Shen which are quite popular picks. In these situations BotrK is actually an option in my opinion. I don't really see the midgame scenario you're talking about. Edit: And again to be clear on that. I'm purely considering it as a replacement for a BT.
I see tons of top and occasionally junglers who go warmogs first.
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Got a pretty dumb question about Quinn, since her ult is "swapping" with her bird. Does only Valor died if you get killed during the ult ?
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United States47024 Posts
Most top laners who build along the lines of Warmogs->Sunfire or Locket->Warmog's hit ~2.5k HP on their second major item. Almost none of them break 4.5k HP at 6 items. The highest practical amount of HP you would get from items is Warmog's + Sunfire + Locket + Randuin's (and typically you will not get all 4) which is 2350 HP. Base level 18 HP is ~2.2k on most of these heroes so even with the absolute highest practical amount of HP, you'd barely break 4.5k. It's more typical for you to not have all 4 of these items, instead opting for a damage item and/or a non-Giant's Belt defensive item that provides more resists but less HP.
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Put botrk on udyr and kill everything.
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On February 16 2013 01:53 Purge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 22:03 barbsq wrote:On February 15 2013 18:22 RagequitBM wrote:
I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.
My teamfighting is still iffy too. I'll plug monte's series on the off chance he hasn't seen this post ;o https://www.youtube.com/user/MontegomeryLoLimo, monte is well on his way to becoming the day9 of LoL. His mondays with monte series has already helped me a ton. He literally comes off as a Day9 league clone. There can only be 1. Ill try and watch him som'more though.
I am Monte.
I find the "Day[9] league clone" criticism interesting because it makes me wonder what, exactly, people really want. On the one hand you have people clamoring for a "Day[9]-esque person for League." On the other hand whoever tries fill that role is written off as a "clone".
As far as I can tell the only way everyone would be satisfied is if Day[9] himself switched to League.
I'm not above criticism, I just find this one in particular to be odd.
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On February 16 2013 03:05 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 01:53 Purge wrote:On February 15 2013 22:03 barbsq wrote:On February 15 2013 18:22 RagequitBM wrote:
I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.
My teamfighting is still iffy too. I'll plug monte's series on the off chance he hasn't seen this post ;o https://www.youtube.com/user/MontegomeryLoLimo, monte is well on his way to becoming the day9 of LoL. His mondays with monte series has already helped me a ton. He literally comes off as a Day9 league clone. There can only be 1. Ill try and watch him som'more though. I am Monte. I find the "Day[9] league clone" criticism interesting because it makes me wonder what, exactly, people really want. On the one hand you have people clamoring for a "Day[9]-esque person for League." On the other hand whoever tries fill that role is written off as a "clone". As far as I can tell the only way everyone would be satisfied is if Day[9] himself switched to League. I'm not above criticism, I just find this one in particular to be odd.
Take it as a compliment. Despite the hate he gets, I still find Sean to be entertaining and informative to the people that are in need of the type of information that he gives. You've got your own style, but being compared to one of the guys that nearly singlehandedly got me interested in learning SC2 as a competitive game is not bad in my book.
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I agree with Requizen, you clearly have your own style but any comparisons to Day9 should be taken as a compliment seeing as how he is kind of considered a god in the SC2 community. If you can attain that kind of status in League, you will have it made!
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On February 16 2013 02:35 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 02:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake. Harlem Shake needs to be on Zed. He starts dancing, and then the beat drops and he summons 30 shadows that are just getting crazy around him.
lol best idea ever
they should make a skin with him wearing a helmet, underwear and nothing else and make harlem is dance
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On February 16 2013 03:16 discator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 02:35 Requizen wrote:On February 16 2013 02:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Botrk works off current health. Not sure if this was taken into consideration.
Im surprised Quinn's dance isn't Harlem shake. Harlem Shake needs to be on Zed. He starts dancing, and then the beat drops and he summons 30 shadows that are just getting crazy around him. lol best idea ever
naw, we just need a league port of meepo, slap that shit on him
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Is there a Vi thread somewhere on TL yet? :O
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United States15536 Posts
On February 16 2013 03:05 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 01:53 Purge wrote:On February 15 2013 22:03 barbsq wrote:On February 15 2013 18:22 RagequitBM wrote:
I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.
My teamfighting is still iffy too. I'll plug monte's series on the off chance he hasn't seen this post ;o https://www.youtube.com/user/MontegomeryLoLimo, monte is well on his way to becoming the day9 of LoL. His mondays with monte series has already helped me a ton. He literally comes off as a Day9 league clone. There can only be 1. Ill try and watch him som'more though. I am Monte. I find the "Day[9] league clone" criticism interesting because it makes me wonder what, exactly, people really want. On the one hand you have people clamoring for a "Day[9]-esque person for League." On the other hand whoever tries fill that role is written off as a "clone". As far as I can tell the only way everyone would be satisfied is if Day[9] himself switched to League. I'm not above criticism, I just find this one in particular to be odd.
Keep doing what you're doing. It's working great for a lot of people and being compared to Day[9] is great. If that's a criticism then fuck everything because there is no God.
On February 16 2013 03:24 Complete wrote:
Is there a Vi thread somewhere on TL yet? :O
Not yet!
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On February 16 2013 02:44 SnoWhiTe wrote:
Got a pretty dumb question about Quinn, since her ult is "swapping" with her bird. Does only Valor died if you get killed during the ult ?
You become Valor so, when he dies, you die. She is super fun to play actually, but i think her skillcap is also pretty high but allows for some sick plays. Also her dueling power is obscene.
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EPT
